Gun control- some food for thought

civil_war22

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“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one.”
Thomas Jefferson
While anti-gun advocates put forth every argument under the sun for why you should not be able to own a “high capacity” magazine that holds more than 10 rounds, or that you shouldn’t be able to buy ammunition online, or that police should stop going to work until guns have been completely banned, the evidence for disarmament of law abiding citizens as a failed policy is overwhelming.

In Chicago, where guns have essentially been banned for personal defense, the murder of innocents has risen so sharply in recent months that Mayor Rahm Emanual has been left with no other option but to call on criminals to look to their morals and values to stop the carnage. Washington D.C., which bans the carrying of concealed weapons, has maintained one of the highest gun crime murder rates in the country for over three decades – since the legislation was passed in 1975. As the Washington Post notes, the disarming of local residents has been wholly ineffective noting that the “guns kept coming, and bodies kept falling.”

These localized examples of the detrimental effects of restrictive gun policies are nothing, however, when compared to what’s happened in Australia, where the government implemented a “buy back” program in 1997 that completely banned gun ownership for the general population. While Australia’s politician promised a lower crime rate once the ban was in place, the disarming of its citizens has led to exactly the opposite effect.
A right stolen by their government, promising safety in return for its gun ban. But now citizens know the frightening truth. The cost of lost liberty can be measured in the loss of life.
“It’s become very, very obvious... that the expenditure of half a billion dollars has done absolutely nothing to reduce crime.”
“It certainly didn’t do what the government touted it would do, which was to reduce crime. It hasn’t done that at all. In fact, there has been more.”
...
“What’s happening today is that the offender, the bad buys, are happy to break into somebody’s house. They’re not frightened to break into somebody’s house while they’re at home.”
...
“It’s very bad at the moment. It’s never been worse.“

Here are the cold hard facts from Australia that anti-gun forces can no longer escape:
Armed Robberies are UP 69%
Assaults Involving Guns are UP 28%
Gun Murders are UP 19%
Home Invasions – a crime for which Australia didn’t even have laws before the gun ban because it never happened – are UP 21%
Like Chicago and Washington D.C., Australia’s gun laws have back fired. The statistics above are rarely if ever reported by mainline news channels in America because the evidence is clear: If you take away guns from law abiding citizens, the only people with guns will be the criminals.

Not only is the evidence regularly buried, but harrowing stories of self defense where individuals have taken it upon themselves to protect their lives and property are often downplayed. When a 65 year old jewelry shop owner took matters into her own hands and opened fire on five gun-toting armed robbers recently, what did the local CBS affiliate mention repeatedly in their report?
“As much as those cops like seeing bad guys having the tables turned on them, they still caution everybody that down-range, beyond the target, there’s often an innocent bystander.”

There is always a risk of an innocent bystander being hit by a rogue bullet, but not one example of such an outcome is ever identified by news reporters citing such information. More often than not, it’s the criminals who shoot indiscriminately that maim or kill a child or other innocent passer-by.
Explaining to the anti-gun activists that the benefits far outweigh the risks is like pulling teeth. But, as the 65 year old jewelry store owner, or the patron of an internet cafe, or the mom who acted to save her kids by shooting an armed intruder show, one person with a gun is all it takes to prevent scores of others from being hurt or killed.
We can continue down this road of stripping Americans of their liberty and right to defend themselves, and we can be assured that we’ll continue to measure the subsequent fallout by counting it in the loss of innocent life. Or, we can put the power back into the hands of the people and send a message to those who would do harm to others. In Australia, criminals are more empowered than ever before when they see statistics like armed robberies being up 69% or murders being up 21%, because they know the people have no ability to defend themselves.
But what if the statistics reported by the media were more like those of Detroit, where self defense killings have jumped 2200% and justifiable homicide is up 79% year-over-year?
If local and national news agencies were reporting that crime was falling and more would-be criminals were ending up taking celestial dirt naps when engaged in violent criminal activity, the psychological effects of being aware of these statistics would be a very powerful deterrent indeed.
The American people are perfectly capable of defending themselves, they need only to have the boot removed from their throats and be allowed to breathe.

The whole story, and some pretty good videos are here
 

worldtalker

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“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one.”
Thomas Jefferson
While anti-gun advocates put forth every argument under the sun for why you should not be able to own a “high capacity” magazine that holds more than 10 rounds, or that you shouldn’t be able to buy ammunition online, or that police should stop going to work until guns have been completely banned, the evidence for disarmament of law abiding citizens as a failed policy is overwhelming.

In Chicago, where guns have essentially been banned for personal defense, the murder of innocents has risen so sharply in recent months that Mayor Rahm Emanual has been left with no other option but to call on criminals to look to their morals and values to stop the carnage. Washington D.C., which bans the carrying of concealed weapons, has maintained one of the highest gun crime murder rates in the country for over three decades – since the legislation was passed in 1975. As the Washington Post notes, the disarming of local residents has been wholly ineffective noting that the “guns kept coming, and bodies kept falling.”

These localized examples of the detrimental effects of restrictive gun policies are nothing, however, when compared to what’s happened in Australia, where the government implemented a “buy back” program in 1997 that completely banned gun ownership for the general population. While Australia’s politician promised a lower crime rate once the ban was in place, the disarming of its citizens has led to exactly the opposite effect.
A right stolen by their government, promising safety in return for its gun ban. But now citizens know the frightening truth. The cost of lost liberty can be measured in the loss of life.
“It’s become very, very obvious... that the expenditure of half a billion dollars has done absolutely nothing to reduce crime.”
“It certainly didn’t do what the government touted it would do, which was to reduce crime. It hasn’t done that at all. In fact, there has been more.”
...
“What’s happening today is that the offender, the bad buys, are happy to break into somebody’s house. They’re not frightened to break into somebody’s house while they’re at home.”
...
“It’s very bad at the moment. It’s never been worse.“

Here are the cold hard facts from Australia that anti-gun forces can no longer escape:
Armed Robberies are UP 69%
Assaults Involving Guns are UP 28%
Gun Murders are UP 19%
Home Invasions – a crime for which Australia didn’t even have laws before the gun ban because it never happened – are UP 21%
Like Chicago and Washington D.C., Australia’s gun laws have back fired. The statistics above are rarely if ever reported by mainline news channels in America because the evidence is clear: If you take away guns from law abiding citizens, the only people with guns will be the criminals.

Not only is the evidence regularly buried, but harrowing stories of self defense where individuals have taken it upon themselves to protect their lives and property are often downplayed. When a 65 year old jewelry shop owner took matters into her own hands and opened fire on five gun-toting armed robbers recently, what did the local CBS affiliate mention repeatedly in their report?
“As much as those cops like seeing bad guys having the tables turned on them, they still caution everybody that down-range, beyond the target, there’s often an innocent bystander.”

There is always a risk of an innocent bystander being hit by a rogue bullet, but not one example of such an outcome is ever identified by news reporters citing such information. More often than not, it’s the criminals who shoot indiscriminately that maim or kill a child or other innocent passer-by.
Explaining to the anti-gun activists that the benefits far outweigh the risks is like pulling teeth. But, as the 65 year old jewelry store owner, or the patron of an internet cafe, or the mom who acted to save her kids by shooting an armed intruder show, one person with a gun is all it takes to prevent scores of others from being hurt or killed.
We can continue down this road of stripping Americans of their liberty and right to defend themselves, and we can be assured that we’ll continue to measure the subsequent fallout by counting it in the loss of innocent life. Or, we can put the power back into the hands of the people and send a message to those who would do harm to others. In Australia, criminals are more empowered than ever before when they see statistics like armed robberies being up 69% or murders being up 21%, because they know the people have no ability to defend themselves.
But what if the statistics reported by the media were more like those of Detroit, where self defense killings have jumped 2200% and justifiable homicide is up 79% year-over-year?
If local and national news agencies were reporting that crime was falling and more would-be criminals were ending up taking celestial dirt naps when engaged in violent criminal activity, the psychological effects of being aware of these statistics would be a very powerful deterrent indeed.
The American people are perfectly capable of defending themselves, they need only to have the boot removed from their throats and be allowed to breathe.

The whole story, and some pretty good videos are here
What about this???
A Little Gun History
 

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civil_war22

civil_war22

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Omg that would make any man cry to see that picture
 

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Well one thing i go by is "That any law passed that is against constitutional law is in fact not a law and the American citizen is duty bound to ignore such laws"
 

jeff of pa

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Although this is Politics, Please ! We are allowing your posts on Gun Control in the EVERYTHING ELSE
section ONLY. not in General Discussion.
also Keep them Limited to the threads that are here. Or we will start Merging threads.

we don't want Everything else to look like The Paranoids Forum on the constitution.
Thank You
 

onfire

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We may think the control part could never happen but remember the NOOSE even a picture of one is forbidden in some circles. In the old days it represented control of crime.
 

Crispin

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Well one thing i go by is "That any law passed that is against constitutional law is in fact not a law and the American citizen is duty bound to ignore such laws"

Who gets to interpret the constitution? We have a body of nine judges and numerous lower courts who have dedicated their lives to studying the history of the constitution and how to interpret it. Words are not absolutes. They are symbols used by a collective group to communicate and express ideas. Cognitive psychology is an entire field of study dedicated to learning about mental representations, emotions, concepts, and how they get translated into language. Simple question: Which is more bird-like, a penguin or a robin?

If everybody got to interpret the constitution for themselves we would essentially be a vigilante society.
 

TheMcs

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That "copy and pasted" article is very hard to read, please post the source.

On my PC it's quite jumbled, I believe instead of the the quotation marks it shows some sort of script. I looked at the thread last night on the iPhone app and it appears correctly. Might be the cause of some confusion.
 

bevo

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civil_war22

civil_war22

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It is good on my iPhone too
 

spartacus53

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Well one thing i go by is "That any law passed that is against constitutional law is in fact not a law and the American citizen is duty bound to ignore such laws"

Not so fast Crispy:tongue3: There is one I can think of right away that I'm sure everyone knows :laughing7:

Although you have free speech, you can't yell fire in a crowded theater :laughing7: So in this case which came first, the chicken, or the egg :icon_scratch:
 

jerseyben

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Not so fast Crispy:tongue3: There is one I can think of right away that I'm sure everyone knows :laughing7:

Although you have free speech, you can't yell fire in a crowded theater :laughing7: So in this case which came first, the chicken, or the egg :icon_scratch:

Crispin was responding to "Red James Cash"s quote. So James is the one who you should be responding to with your comment about free speech.
 

jerseyben

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People really like to throw around this idea of "let's impeach XXXX XXXX" because we dont agree with their policies.

When someone is impeached, "an official is accused of unlawful activity, the outcome of which, depending on the country, may include the removal of that official from office as well as criminal or civil punishment".
 

Treasure_Hunter

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Thread cleaned, keep politics out of it! Any personal attacks will earn timeout, anyone tries to arrange a personal meeting for violent confrontation earns a LONG timeout, talking months not weeks...
 

Crispin

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I think I missed the fireworks. The answer to my question: Which is more bird-like? Is there is no such thing as "bird-like." Something either meets the qualification of being a bird or it does not. However, the mind creates mental representations of categories in order to process thought faster. Most people would knee-jerk say that the robin is more bird-like. In essence, the mind has a prejudice for what a bird should look like. I can go on...but I'll spare the technical talk.

My point was that all spoken words are open to interpretation. While I am at it, a quick comment about statistics. Statistics are correlations and do not imply causality. So, we must be careful when interpretating statistics: Coffee drinkers are eight times as likely to develop cancer then non-coffee drinkers. From this 'fact' we can correlate that coffee causes cancer? No, that is absurd, coffee does not cause cancer. However, people who drink coffee are much more likely to smoke cigs and cigs "cause" cancer. Just thought I would throw this out there.
 

Treasure_Hunter

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I drink lots of coffee, but no "coffin nails"....
 

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