The Tree of Liberty...

[Crispin]

Red: Your statements contradict themselves. How can "God given rights" be the "natural laws." Divinity is in and of itself separate from the evoluation that has occured since The Lord created this world and everything in it. Every passage of the bible, from the beginning to the end, encourages people to support a just and equal government. Moses himself laid down the ten commandments that every government/religion is based on. FEMA camps Surely, both your and my understanding of the constitution and religion go beyond a solitary example of governance. Your statements leave no room for discussion. The opinions you have made are stated as infalliable. Surely, if you are not willing to compromise then at least agree to step aside and let those, who are willing, to speak without fear of retaliation or retribution. I still have faith in you. Your knowledge can be beneficial to this discussion. Bending is not the same as breaking.

I retire for the night. I will be happy to continue on the next sunrise.

Regrads,
Crispin

 

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[Infowarrior]

For sure...

Theres plenty of other countries where the oligarchs have taken the arms from the people, that people can go live, if they dont like guns... china sounds good doesnt it?

 

[Infowarrior]

Crispin, he is not talking about the bible(atleast from my take on the posts)... he is talking about the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights aka the Constitution

Where I believe the wording is that the rights are given by the creator, not "god" specifically...

When you say compromise, what is on the giving side? I can see you want to take, but where is the give? More strip searches, random checkpoints, tsa gropings, more fast and furious scandals selling weapons to mexican cartels for cartel information?

 

[Red James Cash]

I will never compromise on my guaranteed liberties and rights,i will not bend and i will not break.I stand my grounds.

 

[truckinbutch]

Crispin ,
Do not attempt to patronize me by calling me friend . I count my friends on one hand and fingers left over . Indeed we need change . Not further firearm restrictions and penalties on law abiding citizens .
What we need is absolute enforcement of existing criminal law and maximum sentences for violators being served to the maximum limit . The revolving door criminal court system is a farce as it exists today . Being arrested is not a deterrant .
This 'letter of the law' needs to carry to the highest levels of government and not just apply to 'street people'.
We live in perilous times because the sleeping giant is being awakened by the yapping of a few .

 

[onfire]

Ok crrisp We can wait for the very last minute and make every one think we compromised. and like always it's all bull$hit. The smart thing they could do is give every gun owner 1 billion $$ for their weapons and we'll fix the problem. by the way referring to the other guy as being part of a males fun gun was not nice.

 

[Crispin]

Onfire: I am not sure what you mean by "males fun gun." I certainly did not mean to offend.
TruckinButch: It must be a lonely existence having so few friends.
Red: Okay, I got it. No chance of ever compromising. No bending. No breaking. No nothing. You leave absolutely zero room for discussion. Why participate in these discussions if you are not open minded to others views?
InfoWarrior: I can see how things do not seem much like a compromise; however, if additonal gun laws are passed then compromise would need to be attained to loosen them in the future.

All: When I started this thread I honestly thought we might be able to come up with some ideas for limits on gun possession. You all know more about guns then I do. Why not at least brainstorm a few ideas? There are plenty of other threads on Tnet where you can state your opinions on government and gun control. Why not use this one constructively?

 

[bigscoop]

Constitution, Bill of Rights,.......the real issue is that they apply equally to everyone, everyone is guaranteed the same rights and protections. The problem is that one man's rights and liberties is now invading the rights and liberties of the other and often with catastrophic results. 22 young children gunned down, firemen being fire upon and killed, etc., etc., these people are also guaranteed the same rights and liberties as the other guy. In all of this mess, it is the responsibility of our leaders to insure these rights and liberties to everyone. Failure to recognize this is also a failure to recognize, and to uphold, the values and principles within the constitution and the bill of rights. My rights and liberties, your rights and liberties, must never be allowed to override the rights and liberties of another. When the law of the land allows this then the law of the land no longer exist. Those who allow no compromise simply do not respect or recognize the rights of their fellow man, they do not respect or recognize the constitution or the bill of rights, they do not understand the true meaning of America. Life, Liberty, and Justice for all, and not just for those who know no compromise. Both the the Constitution and the Bill of Rights were set in place to protect us from these very things.

 

[Infowarrior]

Compromise:

Noun - An agreement or a settlement of a dispute that is reached by each side making concessions.

 

[bill from lachine]

bigscoop,

Well thought out summary....individual rights and liberties are guaranteed up to the point where they do not infringe
on those of others.....so the checks, balances and compromises where necessary are already in place.

Regards + HH

Bill

 

[Crispin]

Infowarrior: what concessions would you like? I am willing (this is all theoretical of course) to be flexible. It is a little difficult for me to know what you would like in return because it would involve mind-reading. But what the heck, lets give it a shot.

1. Eliminate taxes on purchasing firearms and ammo.
2. Use government funding to develop public shooting ranges with lower costs and easier access.

I would ask this in return...

1. Ban semi-automatic guns that have been used in the recent murders discussed above.
2. Limit the number of weapons that can be owned by one person and stored in their house.

I'm just throwing things out here...I would rather hear your thoughts on what limits could take place.

Crispin

 

[Red James Cash]

If you want to compromise your liberties and rights,go right ahead.By the the time they are finished you wont have any liberties or rights left.The leaders that you want to insure us of our liberties and rights are the very same leaders that are slowly taking them away.And you want to compromise with them

 

[Crispin]

Red: I got it. No bending, no breaking, no compromise. Yes, I do want to compromise and I would appreciate it if you do not laugh and belittle my opinions. When I started this thread I thought you would be a good source of gun knowledge and could contribute ideas on regulation. You have made your point crystal clear...no compromise.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Red: I got it. No bending, no breaking, no compromise. Yes, I do want to compromise and I would appreciate it if you do not laugh and belittle my opinions. When I started this thread I thought you would be a good source of gun knowledge and could contribute ideas on regulation. You have made your point crystal clear...no compromise.

YEP! Blood sacrifices to the Tree of Liberty; NO compromise... "Red" is for the VIOLENT overthrow of the US Government; (among OTHERS?)... on TREASURE NET?

 

[Infowarrior]

Crispin, have you ever heard the saying... An armed society, is a polite society?

Why are you so pro-regulation and telling others how to live their lives, because the media says thats what you should think?

Can you name me one thing that the government doesnt regulate or control? anything please

EDIT: Also, you say to ban the weapons used in recent murders... Well what the heck kind of reasoning is that?

What if people start going on killing sprees with their cars, will you hop right on board with the media bandwagon and call for the banning of hummers, F150's, or Buicks or whatever vehicle is being used to kill people in sidewalks? And eventually all vehicles?

I mean seriously, where does this fear induced from the media end? till we are all locked in cages for our own safety?

 

[Red James Cash]

Red: I got it. No bending, no breaking, no compromise. Yes, I do want to compromise and I would appreciate it if you do not laugh and belittle my opinions. When I started this thread I thought you would be a good source of gun knowledge and could contribute ideas on regulation. You have made your point crystal clear...no compromise.

Your one problem here crispin is that i wasnt referring to you or your opinions.I was referring to bigscoops opinions.He was referring to leaders not you.You people are so quick to assume that it is laughable.

YEP! Blood sacrifices to the Tree of Liberty; NO compromise... "Red" is for the VIOLENT overthrow of the US Government; (among OTHERS?)... on TREASURE NET?

Considering that the us government isnt really the us government anymore,do you really still want to compromise.Nobody ever stated anything about a violent overthrow of anything.

 

[bigscoop]

I don't think "compromise" is the correct term, more like, an opportunity to find a mutual alternate solution. Our Government does not have to afford us a compromise, we are allowed the right to bare arms and that's it. There is nothing in either the Bill of Rights or the Constitution that secures our right to own whatever type firearms we want, or in any quantity we want. These have simply been privileges afforded to us. So I think some people are confused as to just exactly what the Constitution and Bill of Rights actually provides.

For the sake of debate, if we were only allowed the possession of fully registered single shot 22 rifles we would, in fact, still be afforded the opportunity to bare arms. "Everything else" has been a privilege up to this point. Sure, it's an unacceptable extreme example, but it should make clear the possibilities and the reality of the situation. As long as laws are written in such a way to still afford us the right to bare arms, no matter how inconvenient, ours rights have not been legally violated by definition.

So why work together towards mutual solution? Because your elected Government and fellow Americans do not have to compromise, they do not have to negotiate their desire and right for better gun control measures. All they have to tolerate is the basic right to bare arms, nothing more. No portion of a truly free society will ever be allowed to hold rule over their fellow man or it's government. "Compromise?" If that opportunity is a reality then it had better be jumped upon.

I think too many people are confusing rights with privileges.

 

[bigscoop]

Crispin, have you ever heard the saying... An armed society, is a polite society?

Why are you so pro-regulation and telling others how to live their lives, because the media says thats what you should think?

Can you name me one thing that the government doesnt regulate or control? anything please

EDIT: Also, you say to ban the weapons used in recent murders... Well what the heck kind of reasoning is that?

What if people start going on killing sprees with their cars, will you hop right on board with the media bandwagon and call for the banning of hummers, F150's, or Buicks or whatever vehicle is being used to kill people in sidewalks? And eventually all vehicles?

I mean seriously, where does this fear induced from the media end? till we are all locked in cages for our own safety?

"Cars"...might actually be a concept there? Good suggestion. There are a lot of requirements that earn us the privilege to own and to drive cars, and to continue doing so. Great suggestion! Maybe you are correct in suggesting that we need to model gun control measures after this accepted privilege.

 

[Infowarrior]

Seriously... they are just tools as well... they dont work unless a human is controlling them...

plus all the polution and consumption i would much rather see a ban on vehicles over firearms... think about all the people who die every year from vehicles, drunk driving or not, and how many people are killed by firearms per year? im sure vehicle deaths are more...

 

[onfire]

Crisp here's your compromise...PRESS PHOENIX (AP) — An Arizona sheriff has announced plans to deploy an armed volunteer posse to protect Phoenix-area students in the wake of the mass shooting at a Connecticut elementary school.
Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio tells KTVK-TV he has the authority to mobilize private citizens to fight crime but hasn't talked to specific districts.
He says he doesn't plan to put posse members inside schools but will have them posted around the perimeters.
Arpaio is known as one of the nation's most high-profile supporters of strict U.S.-Mexico border policy.. Attorney General Tom Horne proposed firearms training for one person in each school. And Pinal County Sheriff Paul Babeu proposed training multiple educators per school to carry guns.

C. you may think this guy a little wako but if he could he'd build a tower with 13 steps and screw the 8th Amendment. The people on the port side of the boat hate this guy.