The Tree of Liberty...

[Crispin]

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. ... God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion; what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms." -- Thomas Jefferson

Gun legislation is coming down the pipelines. Like it or not, the recent tragedies have brought this into a reality. Everybody knows where I stand on this issue. (I believe I am down the middle, conversationalist, fyi.) Like it or not...it is coming. However, the right to bear arms is as necessary to the american public as the right to breathe the free air. I would sooner die then watch the right to bear arms be elimanted from this society. In fact, I would be happy to let my blood replinish the tree of liberty to keep this right intact.

However, changes are coming. Techonology has increased far past what our founding founders could have ever imagined. Limits must be placed!

Red...I am calling on you.
DieselRam...I am calling on you.
OnFire...I am calling on you.
Treasure Hunter...my good friend...I am calling on you.
PackerBacker...I am calling on you.
RelevantChair...I am calling on you.
Others...I am calling on you.

You are the experts on arms and arms at war. What limits can we place without sacrificing our fundamental rights?
There must be a compromise that can be made. Where is it?

Sincerely, truly, and honorably,

Crispin

 

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[bill from lachine]

Crispin,

Again.....I take off my hat to you.....and yes....like it or not there will in fact be some sort of reregulation coming down the pike regardless of what position you or anyone else takes on the position....it's going to happen.

How to navigate through the maze with some semblance of balance will be the hard part....let's hope that cooler heads prevail....both on the forum and at the government level.

Regards + HH

Bill

 

[Red James Cash]

There is no compromise,the constitution is being desecrated before our eyes.To compromise now we would be doing it again and again and again etc etc.

 

[Crispin]

Red: I don't believe that you believe that. You are too intelligent a man to make such a global sweeping statement. From natural selection to survival of the fittest this world is full of compromise. I have read your survivalist posts. To go against nature without compromise is to die a rapid, cold death. Society evolves, we must evolve with it. Why not help shape that evolution? Stop fighting the inevitable, you are not a seperatist who wants to go down like those at Waco, Tx. What good did that do?

 

[releventchair]

I may err on objectives of introducing bills relating to gun control but have a feeling an effort is underway to pass a (changed of course) version of assault weapon ban that was allowed to expire. Majority of restrictions ,banned items,legal requirements,added to make compromise of passing an assault weapon ban more attractive. While more restriction would be desired,enforcement would be contested,seems it would need to be at a local level. Taxes being made or raised not to popular right now. creating fees to finance new regulations provided by gun buyers/owners would need to be fought by representatives not only for their original purpose but also because it would exclude involvement because of cost. Taxes on certain sporting goods,(like pitman robertson act) could have bills challenging there fairness and how spent too. Nothing original being proposed that i,ve seen yet. But i have no doubt many would ban,restrict all they could. The wait allegedly was due to timings affect on office term. No surprise to many that much planning started long ago and needed support and timing from lame duck(s).recent events make saying wait no longer an option.

 

[Crispin]

Relevantchair: Thank you, my friend, for the intelligent response. I hope that I am not taking too many liberties by calling you my friend. I agree with everything that you have stated. Increasing taxes is a burdensome endeavor indeed, one that may be necessary but should not be borne on the backs of any one specific group. My point is this, you are the experts. You know these weapons far better then I do. The NRA had a chance to help shape legislation but instead came back with a statement of increased arms. They knew the general public would be opposed to that. What limits can be placed? Surely...there must be a compromise.

 

[Red James Cash]

This is only the first step crispin.If they win this round i promise you there will be another and another and another until every American citizen is virtually unarmed.I've been saying this for a long time,I know.Its not going to stop.

 

[Crispin]

Red: That is a fatalistic approach. One that since 1776 our society has yet to fall victim to. Again, I believe you to be too intelligent to believe that. I have read your statements. No government has ever endured without compromise. Our forefounders built that into our constitution to be one of our inalienable rights. Our history is laden with compromise and sophistication that is unparallel to any other country. why can this issue not be one of them?

 

[bill from lachine]

RJC,

Looking at the situation more or less as an outsider from North of the border.....odds are pretty good some changes/restrictions are going to be made regardless of anyone's views on the topic....that's a given....

Appears that Crispin's post was asking for opinions as to what if any compromises people could live with given this reality....I hope I got that main gist of his post in my response.

Regards + HH

Bill

 

[Red James Cash]

Red: That is a fatalistic approach. One that since 1776 our society has yet to fall victim to. Again, I believe you to be too intelligent to believe that. I have read your statements. No government has ever endured without compromise. Our forefounders built that into our constitution to be one of our inalienable rights. Our history is laden with compromise and sophistication that is unparallel to any other country. why can this issue not be one of them?

Because what we are dealing with is a proven corrupt government.I'm not being fatalistic.I'm being realistic.Ive been reading whats been going on for a long time,Ive been preaching it here for a long time,and everything i have ever read and posted is coming true.Gun confiscation is the final step.If this goes through there will be others until we are disarmed.

 

[Crispin]

Red: Those same sentiments were argued about slavery, those same sentiments were argued about women's rights; yet, our society continues to endure. Our country continues to be a bastion of hope for the poor, oppressed, downtrodden, yearning to be free. Is our government corrupt? Absolutely, all governments are corrupt. To be a government is to be corrupt. However, there is no other country that I would rather live in....corrupt or not. Use your knowledge to help shape our legislation, meet those who are uneducated in the middle. Surely, a man of your intelligence, has some ideas as to what limits can be imposed.

 

[onfire]

Compromise? Just what would we compromise? Do they really think the killings would stop? Especially from a Victoria secret reject. Giving in just a little will be crazy. Have you ever read a contract the one placed in front of you may seem like a good deal, except for the finial cut, just one word out of the thousands to be printed changes the entire thing and believe me you'll be hard pressed to find it. except when they haul you in.

Funny how one mental case has brought this to a head (Remember the grassy knoll and how it never existed) Did we ever see the actual weapon or just a picture and the manufacturer's name. How easily we are duped into thinking all these weapons are killing machines, We buy these things because we can, when the day comes when we can't we'll find away around it (Prohibition??) yea that worked,

Compromise with shock! I say if you commit a crime with a gun you get your index fingers cut off and frozen, if your good for 10 years you get it back. If the guy next to you needs his nose picked you'll know he is a felon,

 

[Crispin]

Onfire: No offense, my friend. I hope it is okay for me to call you my friend. However, that post sounded a little bit paranoid. In the middle ages, hunters' index finger and thumb were cut off if they shot the "King's Deer." Prohibition occured before you and I were alive. I agree that our government has made mistakes in the past. What makes our country beautiful is our ability to recognize this, change, and adapt. I refuse to believe that gun legistlation ends in an Alamo-like-stand off. I have more confidence in our people then that.

Crispin

 

[Red James Cash]

You cant compromise on liberties and god given rights.Because once you are asked to and start compromising,it wont stop there.Especially now.

 

[Crispin]

Red: Liberties and "God-given" rights are defined my man, for man. Surely, there is no passage of the bible that discussed the arms race in society and the role of automatic weapons in it. I have studied the bible extensively, so if I am wrong please point me to the book. You make compromises every time you walk out your door. You assume certain liberties will continue to be upheld. Why do you fight a destiny? Is it not better to shape the future of man then to lay wait in the shadows for his demise?

 

[onfire]

Onfire: No offense, my friend. I hope it is okay for me to call you my friend. However, that post sounded a little bit paranoid. In the middle ages, hunters' index finger and thumb were cut off if they shot the "King's Deer." Prohibition occured before you and I were alive. I agree that our government has made mistakes in the past. What makes our country beautiful is our ability to recognize this, change, and adapt. I refuse to believe that gun legistlation ends in an Alamo-like-stand off. I have more confidence in our people then that.

Crispin

No offense taken C. Paranoid? maybe, or just fed up with a few people you have been given a little power and the ability to rile the uniformed masses into believing what they think is good for all of us. If it was good enough for the king then why not good enough for us? (Don't we have a king)

 

[Crispin]

Onfire: Lol, if we have a king. Supply me with the heaviest aresenal you know of and I will make the assasination of the Romanovs look like child's play. I still believe in democracy. I don't want to bring politics into this; however, I support the president, wether I voted for him or the other prick.

 

[Red James Cash]

Red: Liberties and "God-given" rights are defined my man, for man. Surely, there is no passage of the bible that discussed the arms race in society and the role of automatic weapons in it. I have studied the bible extensively, so if I am wrong please point me to the book. You make compromises every time you walk out your door. You assume certain liberties will continue to be upheld. Why do you fight a destiny? Is it not better to shape the future of man then to lay wait in the shadows for his demise?

Sorry but liberties are defined and guaranteed by constitutional law.God given rights are the natural laws such as the right to self defense.Self defense is a god given right,not a right defined by man.Do you want to know what your fate is if total gun confiscation takes place and every American citizen is disarmed.Look up FEMA camps and start reading,that will be your only destiny if total confiscation takes place.

 

[Infowarrior]

SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. ....................

Give them an inch, they are ready to take a mile

 

[Red James Cash]

SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. ....................

Give them an inch, they are ready to take a mile

Exactly what ive been getting at,there is no compromising our liberties and rights.