Personality Disorders

[bill from lachine]

SpiritRelic,

I believe what you were referring to before was SAD shorter days and less sunlight in the winter can be a real downer for some folks....light therapy seems to help....here's a link:-

Seasonal affective disorder (SAD) - MayoClinic.com

Regards + HH

Bill

Thanks for the tip.I get some relief from a good joint also.Most do not believe in herbal remedies though.But i do.Have heard some good stuff of that worts stuff.Lots of old timers have mentioned it to me a bunch of times.I do feel good in the sun.I know it produces a good shot of vitamin D.A lot of people do not know this.Have a great day KGC. O:-)

 

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[Crispin]

When "down", go "NATURAL" and HERBAL... "NATURAL" is MORE SUN LIGHT, with D; can ALSO increase D Vitamins. St. John's Worts (1 pill)...

Do not take St. John's Wort with bipolar diagnosis. St. John's wort can flip a depression into a psychotic mania, bad, very bad.

 

[Crispin]

Crispin, I really appreciate your outline of bi-polar. What percentage of the population is bi-polar or is that number unknown? I understand the line graph you describe however for someone to be bi-polar do they have to go all the way to the left and right or is there some variation to it? Do some people grow out of it or does it usually get worse with time?

SpiritRelic did a good job with his description. Here are some common statistics, they change slightly based on who you read and what research study.
1. One percent of people in the US is diagnosed with Bipolar I because of a full blown manic episode requiring hospitalization and long term treatment.
2. Bipolar (in all its forms) affects 5% of the population.
3. Fifteen percent of people diagnosed with bipolar I will commit suicide.

Answers to other questions:
1. There is a tremendous amount of variation. That is what makes this so hard to diagnose correctly. Bipolars can be all over the line.
2. It is genetic, for most people it gets worse with time. If caught early and treated it can be stabilized and halt progression; however, if meds are stopped it will return. It never goes away.
3. Average age of onset for men is 18-25 and for women 25-35 and then at menopause.
4. Most bipolars avoid treatment and live very rocky, chaotic lives with frequent hospitalizations or jail terms. Around 50 or so they have a tendency to 'burn out.' Basically get tired of all the crap and take the medicine.

I have never experienced mania. I have witnessed it countless times. The best way I can describe it to an outsider is that your mind races so fast that your mouth cannot spit the thoughts out fast enough, you never need to sleep, you have unlimited energy, you "FEEL" music, you "FEEL" closer to God then ever (sometimes even believe you are God or a prophet,) you think you are the smartest person on earth, and you think you are destined to alter the path of mankind. It is like hitting a vegas jackpot, having sex for the first time, drinking the best champagne in the world, and winning the Super Bowl all at once and magnified x 100.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Do not take St. John's Wort with bipolar diagnosis. St. John's wort can flip a depression into a psychotic mania, bad, very bad.

THANKS, "C"; PROBABLY good for non-bipolar depression...

 

[packerbacker]

I don't think the "obviously" mentally disturbed person is the one we have to worry about. You know, the guys walking down the street ranting and raving to nobody. They aren't involved in mass killings. It's the "quiet" ones. Thing is, say they think they have identified someone with the "percieved" potential of going off. What legal means do they think they have to put this person away or remove their guns? Are you kidding me? If I have guns in my home and they identify someone living with me, or even visiting me, as a potential nutjob, do you think they can control my weapons? As is being discussed now as a means of preventing crimes or suicide, if, for some reason, I had a doctor or "health care provider, ask me if there were guns in my home, I'd tell them it's none of their damn business. Then what? A search warrant? Anyone taking ANYTHING away from me will pay a price. THAT'S the bottom line. The honest citizen can only be pushed so far and then a line is drawn. I am not a member of the huggy/squeezy Mr Roger's neighborhood, I'm a veteran, a hunter, a target shooter, I don't trust law enforcement to protect me as is obvious in the mass killings and I'll not have my rights trampled on because society would rather try to understand nutjobs and criminals instead of putting them away. They have limited the magazine capacity to 10 in California now to be "legal". There are more 30-round mags in this state than you can count. If they were to change it to 7 like the dumba$$es in New York did, I would go to 30-round magazines and forget the 10 round limit. If I'm breaking the law I might as well do it right. I DON'T CARE WHY SOMEONE IS NUTS!!!!

 

[Crispin]

I don't think the "obviously" mentally disturbed person is the one we have to worry about. You know, the guys walking down the street ranting and raving to nobody. They aren't involved in mass killings. It's the "quiet" ones. Thing is, say they think they have identified someone with the "percieved" potential of going off. What legal means do they think they have to put this person away or remove their guns? Are you kidding me? If I have guns in my home and they identify someone living with me, or even visiting me, as a potential nutjob, do you think they can control my weapons? As is being discussed now as a means of preventing crimes or suicide, if, for some reason, I had a doctor or "health care provider, ask me if there were guns in my home, I'd tell them it's none of their damn business. Then what? A search warrant? Anyone taking ANYTHING away from me will pay a price. THAT'S the bottom line. The honest citizen can only be pushed so far and then a line is drawn. I am not a member of the huggy/squeezy Mr Roger's neighborhood, I'm a veteran, a hunter, a target shooter, I don't trust law enforcement to protect me as is obvious in the mass killings and I'll not have my rights trampled on because society would rather try to understand nutjobs and criminals instead of putting them away. They have limited the magazine capacity to 10 in California now to be "legal". There are more 30-round mags in this state than you can count. If they were to change it to 7 like the dumba$$es in New York did, I would go to 30-round magazines and forget the 10 round limit. If I'm breaking the law I might as well do it right. I DON'T CARE WHY SOMEONE IS NUTS!!!!

Packerbacker: This thread is not about your post. There are plenty of other threads on this forum where you can express these opinions. Please take it to one of those. This thread is about understanding mental illness. I have already stated that I do not think mental illness and gun reform/control belong in the same sentence.

Respectfully,
Crispin

 

[packerbacker]

I'll honor that request Cris but, didn't they just state that part of the "new" gun control program is going to involve doctors and healthcare workers asking patients that may have a mental issue, for a number of reasons, if they have guns in their homes? Not knives or matches; guns. It's the administration putting gun control and mental illness in the same sentence; I was just merely commenting on how I feel that will work for them.

 

[Crispin]

Packerbacker: Thank you. I would be happy to give you my opinion on that in another thread. I just really want to keep this one focused on understanding mental health. Post it somewhere else, let me know where, and I'll give you my completely unbiased opinion.

 

[bill from lachine]

Crispin,

I tend to agree....the whole personality disorder...mental health issue(s) is complicated enough to absorb/comprehend without throwing another factor in the mix....you being in the medical profession and your colleagues have a heck of a time trying to sort it all out.....and all the answers unfortunately are not cut and dried.

Regards + HH

Bill

 

[Ace350]

There is also a seasonal type bi-polar disorder.Yes,that's right.These symptoms can be brought on by the weather.This is were the old saying comes from.You change with the weather.Sun light is involved with this condition.People have time clocks just like plants do.It is driven by the sun.If this internal time clock in a person is out of wack,long periods of gloomy weather with lack of sun can bring on this type of seasonal bi-polar disorder.This is why the most depressing day of the year for most people is around now,due to the short days and gloomy weather.We have a clock in us just like plants that respond to the clock and know when to bloom.The earth and other things around us has more to do with our behavior than one thinks.

Went through that seasonal winter blues.
Did a blood test and was prescribed vitamin D.
Well that made sense because it's cold out and you don't have much skin exposed to the sun which is where you get most of your vitamin D. Plus the days are shorter so even less sun.

One other time I went to a Dr. because I felt low on energy and was miserable.
After another blood test I was told I was depressed the Dr. found my dopamine levels very very low.
I was given D, L Phenylalanine and some other natural herbs and in about a week I felt better.
I believe I got that way from a very poor diet and lack of exercise.

My point is I think there are a lot of people out there with chemical imbalances simply because of our modern diet habits and lack of exercise.

Going to the right Dr. And getting a blood test can get you fixed and back on your feet in no time.
The problem is most western Doctors would rather quickly diagnose and prescribe some pharmaceutical to treat an mask the symptoms instead of fixing what is causing the symptoms.

 

[Crispin]

Ace: I'm glad that you were able to get the help you needed. I take issue with your view on western doctors and antidepressant medications. However, you stated it politely, so I thank you for that. A couple of points for you to consider:
1. There is no blood test for dopamine. So it is impossible for a doctor to tell you that. Even if there was a blood test for dopamine it would make zero sense to take a blood test. The brain is separated from the body via skull, dura, and the blood brain barrier. Blood is too dense to cross it. So getting a blood draw would have no reflection on what is in your brain. The only way to test the fluids in the brain is via a spinal tap, and again there is no test available for dopamine. Cortisone can be tested via spinal fluid but that is a very poor correlaton to dopamine levels.
2. Phenylalanine has nothing to do with dopamine. The base amino acid for dopamine is tyrosine.
3. Exercise and diet are very important. I couldn't agree with you more.
4. Vit D. levels can lead to tiredness and fatigue but not depression. You don't get vitamin D from the sun. The sun converts the inactive '24 dehydoxy form to the active '23 dehydroxy form.
5. SAD is a real thing and phototherapy can be a good treatment.

Concluding thoughts: Next time you see a post-partum psychosis, a schizophrenic, or a vet with PTSD why don't you tell them to go out in the sun, get some vitamin D, and take a few herbs...you will get nowhere. There is no blood test for any mental illness. You are doing people a disservice by propagating this myth.

 

[dieselram94]

Crispin, I again thank you for the info on Bi-polar. I have often wondered about that disorder. I was fearing the percentage of people with that disorder was going to be much higher.

 

[Ace350]

Crispin you are correct. I forgot, the test that found the low dopamine levels was a saliva or urine test. I took both and wasn't told which test they got their diagnosis from.
The vitamin

By the way, I looked it up and it says"D, L-Phenylalanine (DLPA) is a 50-50 blend of the D and L forms of this amino acid (building blocks for protein). The structure of the D form is used to help combat pain. The structure of the L form is used as a stimulant, appetite suppressant, and mood enhancer. D, L-Phenylalanine is used by the brain to produce norepinephrine (our brains' version of adrenaline), a neurotransmitter depleted by stress, caffeine, nicotine, pollution, and some pharmacological and recreational drugs. D, L-Phenylalanine also helps replace dopamine, the neurotransmitter responsible for feelings associated with sexual pleasure, confidence, and euphoria virtually side effect free."

I am no doctor, I am just trying to say that some conditions that may appear to be a mental or chemical imbalance condition could just be something easy to fix like what happened to me.
I do not deny any of the mental conditions and treatments you had previously mentioned.
I will now back out of this thread and keep my mouth shut on this subject.

 

[bill from lachine]

Ace,

I wouldn't be too hard on yourself.....most of this stuff is pretty complex for the average lay person to digest and sift through....I can't speak for Crispin but believe he wanted these threads to be as inclusive as possible.

He's here to inform and educate on these topics.

Take care dude.

Regards + HH

Bill

 

[Crispin]

Crispin you are correct. I forgot, the test that found the low dopamine levels was a saliva or urine test. I took both and wasn't told which test they got their diagnosis from.
The vitamin

By the way, I looked it up and it says"D, L-Phenylalanine (DLPA) is a 50-50 blend of the D and L forms of this amino acid (building blocks for protein). The structure of the D form is used to help combat pain. The structure of the L form is used as a stimulant, appetite suppressant, and mood enhancer. D, L-Phenylalanine is used by the brain to produce norepinephrine (our brains' version of adrenaline), a neurotransmitter depleted by stress, caffeine, nicotine, pollution, and some pharmacological and recreational drugs. D, L-Phenylalanine also helps replace dopamine, the neurotransmitter responsible for feelings associated with sexual pleasure, confidence, and euphoria virtually side effect free."

I am no doctor, I am just trying to say that some conditions that may appear to be a mental or chemical imbalance condition could just be something easy to fix like what happened to me.
I do not deny any of the mental conditions and treatments you had previously mentioned.
I will now back out of this thread and keep my mouth shut on this subject.

Ace: Please do not back out of the discussion. I did not mean to offend. Alternative medicine is very valuable and I have a lot of patients that benefit from it. I think I misunderstood your original post. I apologize for that. Keep contributing your thoughts. I value your opinion and I respect you as an individual.

Crisp,

Ps. I get so much abuse that sometimes I overreact. I think this was the case with you. Again, i apologize.

 

[UncleMatt]

Matt people defending their rights under Bill of Rights is not paronia.

Keep the gun control debate out of Crispins post here unless he brings it in.

There can be discussions, but there will be no attacks in the discussions as in the past.

So in the OP this was posted "Many have referred to preventing the mentally ill from getting guns." But when I posted what I did, all of a sudden the very mention of guns by me was out of line? It was in the original post, but I am out of line for commenting on that? I see a lot of pandering and double standards going on in this section of the site.

 

[bill from lachine]

UncleMatt,

Crispin started a separate thread to cover the issue.....he just didn't want the two subjects joined in the same post....hope you understand.

Here's the other thread which addresses the topic if you wish to jump in with your views feel free.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/everything-else/330631-gun-control-mental-health.html

Regards + HH

Bill

 

[Rebel - KGC]

UncleMatt,

Crispin started a separate thread to cover the issue.....he just didn't want the two subjects joined in the same post....hope you understand.

Here's the other thread which addresses the topic if you wish to jump in with your views feel free.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/everything-else/330631-gun-control-mental-health.html

Regards + HH

Bill

AGREE!

 

[Crispin]

So in the OP this was posted "Many have referred to preventing the mentally ill from getting guns." But when I posted what I did, all of a sudden the very mention of guns by me was out of line? It was in the original post, but I am out of line for commenting on that? I see a lot of pandering and double standards going on in this section of the site.

UncleMatt: I will reply in the other thread. Your opinions are welcome. The gun debate is a hot, hot topic. If you have been following some of the other threads I have been involved in then you know they got pretty uncivilized. It was nothing personal against you. I just want to keep the focus of this thread on mental health.

 

[BC1969]

Some really interesting perspectives laid out here.
I especially liked the part about locking away potentially violent people in the past.
I wasn't potentially violent then and I ain't now either.
Still locked me away for three years total. Thanks!

No, I don't have any issue bumping old posts.
It is very informative and educational.

BC