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  1. #31
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    Chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by 0121stockpicker View Post
    I certainly believe that it is a fact that you believe that. No one is questioning what you believe and questioning that you do not know what you believe. And being an American you can believe whatever you want. That's great. Plenty of great threads to discuss ones second amendment beliefs and opinions. Best.
    When it comes down to it,tried to warn you.That's OK,I will still defend you against Tyranny.
    EVER WONDER WHERE YOUR THOUGHTS COME FROM?

    ​The Key...http://antidoteforall.com/

    For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:12

  2. #32
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    Voice of Reason?

    Nov 2012
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    Guns kill people, and people kill people. We can only hope to control both.
    Personally, when we talk about gun control we are not only locking the barn door after the horse has run away, we are buying a new saddle and bridle, stocking up on hay and building a new barn for the horse that has run away. With something like 300,000,000 weapons out there somewhere, any effective arms control is FAR FAR too late to do any good. So, while I supported Arms Control in theory, the fact of it is that even the strictest arms control would do nothing about the real problem. The secondary problem is one of logic and the ability to look beyond crank conspiracy theories and at reality. No one has proposed the government coming and taking any weapons from anyone who obtained them legally. NO ONE. They are not going to pry them from your cold dead hand. There is no proposal on the table that would do anything of the sort, so those who are getting all revolutionary on us, calm down. The most extreme laws proposed would make it more difficult to get the worst of the worst types of weapons (and considering that there are already tens of millions of assault weapons legally sold, there is no shortage except in those tiny minds who think Obama is going to sneak into his house and nick his weapons (Ted Negent).
    Here is the problem I have with the Gun Lobby. They keep saying we need to enforce the laws we have on the books, then they lobby congress to pass rule and funding that make it impossible for the ATF to actually do that.

    Please don't tell me you want to enforce the laws we have on the books now and then make it impossible to do so. If you do that, I will call you what you are, a pack of lying hypocrites.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chadeaux

    It is. Read it as written without the attitude of a lawyer looking for a loophole and you will see how simple it is.

    Yes, the constitution can be amended. I don't think that this is going to happen to the Second Amendment without a huge false flag operation.

    Unfortunately, I have heard speculation of events which might bring that about. Lived through one of those false flags before, don't want to see it happen again. The really odd thing is the proponents were anti-gun.
    Again, you are getting caught up in the amendment thing. As has been posted the likely course of action IS NOT going to be an amendment. You realize there are millions of "laws" in this country, right. How do you think a law is created? One does not need a constitutional amendment.

    For the sake of all of us fortunately it is not as simple as just reading it. I'm not a lawyer so I'm reading it through my own eyes but I also know (hopefully everyone knows) that the constitution is basically a table of contents. Each one or two paragraph amendment is backed by over 200 years of constitutional law with libraries of information. You understand that, right? If we just looked at the constitution and then stopped would anyone except white landowners males be able to vote? What would be the laws be concerning cell phones, computers etc.

    If you do a little reading of constitutional law you will quickly learn the rich history involved and how it is anything but simple.

    Listen we all get old and afraid of change. Your not alone. You think I know what all the buttons on my cell phone do. Everyone gets to a certain age and wants all change to stop and harken back to the "good old days". Thank goodness we have the young to keep things moving forward. Or we could all just join the Amish. Best.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejapooh
    Boy... The weirdo's really are out in force when you start to look up what the American Law is on Martial Law. It seems that it either has been declared in secret months ago, or it is about to be declared. Either way, Martial law is available to the President under executive order, but any long standing persisting emergency that would interfere with the right of Habius Corpus would be reviewed by the supreme court. Congress would also get in on the act, and such a declaration for political gain would likely result in Impeachment.
    Yup reminds me of the car insurance commercial when the guy says "where did you here that" and the woman says " the Internet, and you know anything on the Internet is correct". And then the guys says "and where that " and she says " the Internet". Or something like that.

    That's why I get so concerned about all the whacky info going around out there.

  5. #35

    Jun 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by worldtalker View Post
    The FACT is,I believe there are enough Real Americans that would stand their ground,PERIOD! GodBless Chris
    REAL Americans...? How do YOU define a "REAL American"...? THANKS in advance.

  6. #36
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    Living the WP

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    I have been away awhile but I started perusing some of these posts yesterday and have found some very interesting leanings of some members.

    Hence the question, what is the definition of "We The People" Picker? I saw a post that you answered incorrectly earlier.

    Regards,
    Dave

  7. #37
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    Chris

    May 2011
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    The one everybody else missed.
    Quote Originally Posted by 0121stockpicker View Post
    Again, you are getting caught up in the amendment thing. As has been posted the likely course of action IS NOT going to be an amendment. You realize there are millions of "laws" in this country, right. How do you think a law is created? One does not need a constitutional amendment.

    For the sake of all of us fortunately it is not as simple as just reading it. I'm not a lawyer so I'm reading it through my own eyes but I also know (hopefully everyone knows) that the constitution is basically a table of contents. Each one or two paragraph amendment is backed by over 200 years of constitutional law with libraries of information. You understand that, right? If we just looked at the constitution and then stopped would anyone except white landowners males be able to vote? What would be the laws be concerning cell phones, computers etc.

    If you do a little reading of constitutional law you will quickly learn the rich history involved and how it is anything but simple.

    Listen we all get old and afraid of change. Your not alone. You think I know what all the buttons on my cell phone do. Everyone gets to a certain age and wants all change to stop and harken back to the "good old days". Thank goodness we have the young to keep things moving forward. Or we could all just join the Amish. Best.
    There were over 33,000,000 laws last I looked,it could conceivably come to a point you're riding on a bus one day and break a law without knowing it and end up in prison. Ignorance of the law is NO excuse,how in hell is one to remember 33,000,000 laws.

    As far as computers,I was hoping Y2K WOULD happen,back to the horse and buggy days,harder,but,simpler.

    I'm older and am NOT AFRAID of anything,as far as the young,I don't hold out much hope if they haven't been home schooled.
    bevo likes this.
    EVER WONDER WHERE YOUR THOUGHTS COME FROM?

    ​The Key...http://antidoteforall.com/

    For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:12

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave44
    I have been away awhile but I started perusing some of these posts yesterday and have found some very interesting leanings of some members.

    Hence the question, what is the definition of "We The People" Picker? I saw a post that you answered incorrectly earlier.

    Regards,
    Dave
    I think the question was just people, not we the people. From the standpoint of the original constitution "we the people" as all constitution rights referred to Caucasian landowning males. Thank goodness that has been "amended" over the years. But it's still debated today, right. Look at the debate about illegal aliens and wether they deserve rights or not. So one can not even say "citizens of the United States". But this is completely open forum so would love to see what constitutional laws you have dug up on the topic. This is free exchange of facts. Best.

  9. #39
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    Last edited by Treasure_Hunter; Jan 28, 2013 at 12:20 PM. Reason: insult to other members in threaf
    "Internet quotes are often inaccurate."
    -Abraham Lincoln

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by worldtalker

    There were over 33,000,000 laws last I looked,it could conceivably come to a point you're riding on a bus one day and break a law without knowing it and end up in prison. Ignorance of the law is NO excuse,how in hell is one to remember 33,000,000 laws.

    As far as computers,I was hoping Y2K WOULD happen,back to the horse and buggy days,harder,but,simpler.

    I'm older and am NOT AFRAID of anything,as far as the young,I don't hold out much hope if they haven't been home schooled.
    I'm hearing you man. But lets face it there are a hell of a lot worse countries to be in - North Korea, china, etc. where we would not be having this discussion.

    I think the best that we can do is have as much knowledge of the process as possible and be as active as possible in the process.
    jerseyben likes this.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0121stockpicker View Post
    I think the question was just people, not we the people. From the standpoint of the original constitution "we the people" as all constitution rights referred to Caucasian landowning males. Thank goodness that has been "amended" over the years. But it's still debated today, right. Look at the debate about illegal aliens and wether they deserve rights or not. So one can not even say "citizens of the United States". But this is completely open forum so would love to see what constitutional laws you have dug up on the topic. This is free exchange of facts. Best.
    Factually since it was amended, The question is who does the bill of rights refer to? As this is your thread I will let you debate yourself on the subject of human rights, but that is a simple avoidance of the question.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave44

    Factually since it was amended, The question is who does the bill of rights refer to? As this is your thread I will let you debate yourself on the subject of human rights, but that is a simple avoidance of the question.
    Actually goes beyond the BoR given it was further amendment that granted freedoms and right to vote to large parts of our population - correct. Nevermind a ton of com law such as the american with disabilities act - correct.

    My multiple personalities are under control at this point so I'm finding it difficult to debate myself!! Just joking. Thanks for your input. Im sure everyone would like to hear whatever information you have. I started the thread but this is an open forum for everyone to participate.

  13. #43
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    Living the WP

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    Are you sure you are not a lawyer? The Bill of Rights does indeed allow for "most of the population" in the US of A to Vote. But that still does not answer the question. So I will rephrase it.
    What sector of the worlds population is allowed to vote because of it, guaranteed the rights outlined by it, and how often does it allow the UN to amend it?
    bevo and Chadeaux like this.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave44
    Are you sure you are not a lawyer? The Bill of Rights does indeed allow for "most of the population" in the US of A to Vote. But that still does not answer the question. So I will rephrase it.
    What sector of the worlds population is allowed to vote because of it, guaranteed the rights outlined by it, and how often does it allow the UN to amend it?
    Ok, here is the history if voting and everyone who can vote and pertains nice amendments in law to voting. Right from the Wikipedia so if not clear probably best for you to do your own research on your topic and come back to us. Best.

    The issue of voting rights in the United States has been contentious throughout the country's history. Eligibility to vote in the U.S. is determined by both federal and state law. Currently, only citizens can vote in U.S. elections (although this has not always been the case). Who is (or who can become) a citizen is governed on a national basis by federal law. In the absence of a federal law or constitutional amendment, each state is given considerable discretion to establish qualifications for suffrage and candidacy within its own jurisdiction.

    When the country was founded, in most states, only white men with real property (land) or sufficient wealth for taxation were permitted to vote. Freed slaves could vote in four states. Unpropertied white men, women, and all other people of color were denied the franchise. At the time of the American Civil War, most white men were allowed to vote, whether or not they owned property. Literacy tests, poll taxes, and even religious tests were used in various places, and most white women, people of color, and Native Americans still could not vote.[1]

    The United States Constitution, in Article VI, section 3, states that "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States." The Constitution, however, leaves the determination of voting qualifications to the individual states. Over time, the federal role in elections has increased through amendments to the Constitution and enacted legislation, such as the Voting Rights Act of 1965.[2] At least four of the fifteen post-Civil War constitutional amendments were ratified specifically to extend voting rights to different groups of citizens. These extensions state that voting rights cannot be denied or abridged based on the following:

    Birth - "All persons born or naturalized" "are citizens" of the U.S. and the U.S. State where they reside (14th Amendment, 1868)
    "Race, color, or previous condition of servitude" - (15th Amendment, 1870)
    "On account of sex" - (19th Amendment, 1920)
    In Washington, D.C., presidential elections after 164 year suspension by U.S. Congress (23rd Amendment, 1961)
    (For federal elections) "By reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax" - (24th Amendment, 1964)
    (For state elections) Taxes - (Harper v. Virginia Board of Elections, 383 U.S. 663 (1966))
    "Who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of age" (26th Amendment, 1971).
    In addition, the 17th Amendment provided for the direct election of United States Senators.

    The "right to vote" is not explicitly stated in the U.S. Constitution except in the above referenced amendments, and only in reference to the fact that the franchise cannot be denied or abridged based solely on the aforementioned qualifications. In other words, the "right to vote" is perhaps better understood, in layman's terms, as only prohibiting certain forms of legal discrimination in establishing qualifications for suffrage. States may deny the "right to vote" for other reasons.

    For example, many states require eligible citizens to register to vote a set number of days prior to the election in order to vote. More controversial restrictions include those laws that prohibit convicted felons from voting or, as seen in Bush v. Gore, disputes as to what rules should apply in counting or recounting ballots [3]

    A state may choose to fill an office by means other than an election. For example, upon death or resignation of a legislator, the state may allow the affiliated political party to choose a replacement to hold office until the next scheduled election. Such an appointment is often affirmed by the governor.[4]

    HideMilestones of national franchise extension

    Abolition of property qualifications for white men, 1812-1860 — see: Jacksonian democracy
    Citizenship in both the U.S. and U.S. States by birth or naturalization, 1868 — see: Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution
    Non-white men, 1870 — see: Fifteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution
    Direct election of senators, 1913 — see: Seventeenth Amendment to the United States Constitution gave voters rather than state legislatures the right to elect senators[5]
    Women, 1920 — see: Nineteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution
    Native Americans, 1924 — see:[6]
    Residents of the District of Columbia for U.S. Presidential Elections, 1961 — see: Twenty-third Amendment to the United States Constitution
    Poor, 1964 — see: Twenty-fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution, prohibiting imposition of poll tax in federal elections
    Racial minorities in certain states, 1965 — see Voting Rights Act
    Poor, 1966 — see: Harper v. Virginia Board of Elections, 383 U.S. 663 (1966), prohibiting imposition of poll tax or property requirements in all US elections.
    Adults between 18 and 21, 1971 — see: Twenty-sixth Amendment to the United States Constitution,[7] were granted the vote in response to Vietnam War protests which argued that soldiers who are old enough to fight for their country should be old enough to vote.[5]
    Washington, D.C., for restoring local elections such as Mayor and Councilmen, after 100 year gap in Georgetown, and 190 gap in the wider city, ending Congress's policy of local election disenfranchisement started in 1801 in this former portion of Maryland, 1973, — see: D.C. Home rule
    United States Military and Uniformed Services, Merchant Marine, other Citizens overseas, living on bases in the U.S., abroad, or aboard ship, 1986 — see: Uniformed and Overseas Citizens Absentee Voting Act[8]

    Worlds people and UN I have no idea what that has to do with voting rights in the us but please educate us if it does. This forum is for everyone to post factual information pertaining to the second amendment.

  15. #45
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    Molon Labe. Yeah, I'm a knuckle dragger. And I'm not alone. The Constitution stay as is. That's what my money is on.
    In order to have peace you propose taking peoples rights by force? Let me know how it works out.
    worldtalker likes this.

 

 
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