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  1. #16
    us
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    I get that every winter. Of course it's brought on by my lack of metal detecting!!

  2. #17
    us
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    Cris...........I'm being serious here. Chantix, a stop smoking drug is said to cause agressive behavior in some people. Apparently Chantix is a mind-altering drug which can change moods in any range from agressive to suicidal. I took Chantix myself and actually quit smoking over 5 years ago. Didn't seem to effect mu moods; I hated the same people just as much as I did before I started taking it. My thing though is, isn't it HIGHLY possible that some of the drugs given to mental health patients capable of causing the same agressive behavior? Maybe they wouldn't go on killing sprees if they hadn't started these drugs in the first place? I guess I have the same stigma about mental health as some others do; I don't understand why folks can't get through their problems without using drugs and I feel the drugs just exacerbate the situation. My wife worked for mental health for many years so she understands a little more than I do but I just can't change my opinion and I've heard all sides. I just have my own theories.
    Banking off a Northeast wind, sailin' on a summer breeze

  3. #18
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    Chris

    May 2011
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    Cost of antidepressants? How about to many innocent human lives.
    B1u3Dr4g0n1 likes this.
    EVER WONDER WHERE YOUR THOUGHTS COME FROM?

    ​The Key...http://antidoteforall.com/

    When we come into the world we take on the identity of those who are more powerful than us.

  4. #19
    us
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    Quote Originally Posted by packerbacker View Post
    Cris...........I'm being serious here. Chantix, a stop smoking drug is said to cause agressive behavior in some people. Apparently Chantix is a mind-altering drug which can change moods in any range from agressive to suicidal. I took Chantix myself and actually quit smoking over 5 years ago. Didn't seem to effect mu moods; I hated the same people just as much as I did before I started taking it. My thing though is, isn't it HIGHLY possible that some of the drugs given to mental health patients capable of causing the same agressive behavior? Maybe they wouldn't go on killing sprees if they hadn't started these drugs in the first place? I guess I have the same stigma about mental health as some others do; I don't understand why folks can't get through their problems without using drugs and I feel the drugs just exacerbate the situation. My wife worked for mental health for many years so she understands a little more than I do but I just can't change my opinion and I've heard all sides. I just have my own theories.
    PackerBacker: We have had some good dicussions and I respect your opinion. Let me explain a little.
    1. Chantix is a vicious drug. Anybody with any history of mood disorder should not take it. Physicians call me weekly to ask about specific patients taking it, I almost always say no. Chantix CAN and WILL make people aggressive and suicidal. Chantix works by blocking Dopamine receptors in the Nucleus Accumbens. The Nucleus Accumbens is the pleasure center of the brain. Nicotine binds to dopamine receptors in the NA to produce a feeling of euphoria. Chantix binds to those receptors so nicotine can't. Thus, the theory, is people stop smoking because they no longer get pleasure from the nicotine and experience all the bad tastes and feelings from the other things in cigs.
    2. However, when chantix blocks dopamine receptors it is non-specific. Dopamine stimulation is a neccesary part of feeling happy. Without it...depression, violence, and aggression.

    3. Some medicines given by mental health professionals can cause aggressive behavior. It all depends on which one we are talking about. Did you have a specific one in mind?
    4. Antidepressants carry a black box warning on young adults and children because they have been associated with a higher rate of suicide attempt. This is a fact.
    5. That does not mean that antidepressants cause this age group to commit suicide. When somebody is depressed they often have little energy and suicidal feelings. When treating depression, energy will improve BEFORE mood does. What happens when you take a depresssed, suicidal adolescent and improve their energy but not their mood? You guessed it...more suicide attempts.
    6. The data for this black box warning was based on a meta-study of 8000 patients. 4000 patients given an antidepressant and 4000 patients given placebo. The group given placebo had a 2% suicide attempt rate. The group given antidepressants had a 4% suicide attempt rate. HOWEVER, nobody of all 8000 succusfully committed suicide. NO DEATHS.
    7. You are absolutely right, antidepressant use must be closely monitored in this population.

    8. You do have the stigma, but at least you can admit it. Let me click on this and I'll start another reply.
    Last edited by Crispin; Feb 03, 2013 at 01:07 PM.

  5. #20
    us
    Jun 2012
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    Part II:

    1. Depression IS a chemical imbalance in the brain based on genetic sequencing. Look at it like diabetes. There are different causes of diabetes but some people are just born with it and can do nothing about it. Diabetes is genetic and it runs in families.
    2. Depression is the same thing but with different chemicals. Diabetes is related to insulin, glucagon, and others. Depression is related to serotonin, norepinephrine, dopamine and others.
    3. I can do a finger stick and show you your sugar is high or low.
    4. I cannot stick a needle in your brain, draw off fluids, and show you your serotonin is low without causing significant damage or killing you.
    5. That is why there is a big stigma against psychiatry. some people have to SEE things to believe them.

    6. Not all forms of depression need medication. Biological symptoms of depression are decreased sleep, decreased appetite, decreased sex drive, decreased energy, decreased concentration, feelings of guilt/worthlessness/helplessness/ or hopelessness, anhedonia, and suicidal ideation (just thinking about it.) People with several of these symptoms will respond well to medication.
    7. Social stressors can make people feel depressed. For example: I hate my job, I hate my freinds, I hate my family....blah, blah, blah. HOWEVER, social stressors DO NOT respond to medications. These people need therapy.
    8. This contributes to STIGMA of psychiatry. You see all these people complaining and think...get over it. Well it is not that simple, but it is NOT the same as a GENETIC CHEMICAL IMBALANCE. However, I admit, these people can try anybody's patience quickly.

    9. If I give somebody an antidepressant with a chemical imbalance they usually feel better in a week or two. If I give somebody an antidepressant with social stressors it does nothing.

    10. any questions? It is a pleasure to help clear up some of the stigma.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by worldtalker View Post
    Cost of antidepressants? How about to many innocent human lives.
    Antidepressants don't kill people, Guns kill people.

  7. #22
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    Adventure1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    Antidepressants don't kill people, Guns kill people.
    No guns don't kill people. Peoples actions with guns kill people. I have never had a gun chase me around on it's own.. Also antidepressants don't kill people either.. The people who are on these drugs actions are what hurts other people.. It is a double edged sword no matter how you look at it.. If your going to compare one please compare the other fairly too.
    God made man.. Sam Colt made them equal

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by pong12211 View Post
    No guns don't kill people. Peoples actions with guns kill people. I have never had a gun chase me around on it's own.. Also antidepressants don't kill people either.. The people who are on these drugs actions are what hurts other people.. It is a double edged sword no matter how you look at it.. If your going to compare one please compare the other fairly too.
    I was being faciousus. Worldtalker is unable to provide any meaningful thought in this thread so I was throwing him a bone.

  9. #24
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    Adventure1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    I was being faciousus. Worldtalker is unable to provide any meaningful thought in this thread so I was throwing him a bone.
    I understand.. All I was trying to say is wether it be a gun or a pill.. If it is in the hands of the wrong person at the wrong time they can both be very dangerous... Guns like pills are both harmless on their own.. But add an iresponsible or an unbalanced person to the equation and now we have a problem..
    God made man.. Sam Colt made them equal

  10. #25
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    Chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    I was being faciousus. Worldtalker is unable to provide any meaningful thought in this thread so I was throwing him a bone.
    May not be meaningful to an "expert",but,how many of the people involved in ALL school shootings were taking them? Innocent lives lost as I said,it means something to me,and,I'm a nobody!!!
    EVER WONDER WHERE YOUR THOUGHTS COME FROM?

    ​The Key...http://antidoteforall.com/

    When we come into the world we take on the identity of those who are more powerful than us.

  11. #26
    us
    I deal in reality

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    Crispin, What do you think caused the shooting at Sandy hook school? The press said the medal condition he had was not dangerous. Frank

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  12. #27
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    Smoke pot,it's cheaper and is better for you.

  13. #28
    us
    Chris

    May 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Produce Guy View Post
    Smoke pot,it's cheaper and is better for you.
    I'll toke to that.
    B1u3Dr4g0n1 and 4reale like this.
    EVER WONDER WHERE YOUR THOUGHTS COME FROM?

    ​The Key...http://antidoteforall.com/

    When we come into the world we take on the identity of those who are more powerful than us.

  14. #29
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    Jun 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by worldtalker View Post
    I'll toke to that.
    So you are recommending that instead of addressing depression in young adults with help and medication that they do drugs instead? Just out of curiosity...does anybody take this guy's opinion seriously anymore?

    Crispin

  15. #30
    ca
    Oct 2011
    Quebec
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    Folks,

    Cue DJ.....lol....this should do the trick.

    4reale likes this.

 

 
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