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Thread: Folks, Ethics.......

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  1. #31
    Charter Member
    us
    Mar 2005
    south charleston, wv
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    “A really efficient totalitarian state would be one in which the all-powerful executive of political bosses and their army of managers control a population of slaves who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude.” – Aldous Huxley – Brave New World

    Your signature quote is spot on.

    Television ensures enslavement.
    Last edited by chirper97; Feb 07, 2013 at 04:42 AM.
    The alchemists in their search for gold discovered many other things of greater value.
    Ex animo

  2. #32
    us
    Link's Clone

    Dec 2012
    WA State
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    My experience in ethics/morals when it comes to careers is to "choose your battles and c.y.a(cover yer ass)." Working in Corrections I have TONS of Policies and State RCWs to abide by. I do my job, sign my paperwork that needs to be signed and I stay out of other folk's business unless it pertains to me. If I argued with every Knuckle Draggin', 3X Divorced A-Hole Officer here I'd get no where.
    At the end of the day, no matter what happens, when the audit comes down hard on our facility, my paperwork will be done and duties completed. I wish I could say the same for the other folks.
    I guess my advice in a nutshell, "Make sure your stuff is covered/finished before you start harping on somebody else."

  3. #33

    Nov 2007
    somewhere between here and there, south of over there but north of that place
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    ethics are what you do when no one is looking.

    if you're like the florida state legislature, you have to pass bills in order to define them.
    B1u3Dr4g0n1 likes this.
    when you tug on a single thing in nature, you'll find it's connected to the rest of the world. John muir

  4. #34

    Jun 2007
    21,213
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    Quote Originally Posted by davest View Post
    ethics are what you do when no one is looking.

    if you're like the florida state legislature, you have to pass bills in order to define them.
    Retired persons...? Don't know...

  5. #35
    us
    Aug 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red James cash View Post
    Thats right it is bill,a man is only as good as his word.I keep mine therefore i expect the same from others.The difference is I wont hesitate to give a little payback if I get screwed for it.
    Probably the idea of turning the other cheek is lost on most of us. The concept seems as foreign as it must have to those that heard it the first time.
    Payback can seem righteous at the time we felt victimized. My experience says, right or wrong, there might be more payback if people had the courage.
    I've known people that got completely victimized in our courts but left with the attitude that "They had their day in court" and somehow felt good or at least OK about it. For others it would add fuel to the fire.
    Modern media makes bucks showing victims getting even with their persecutors. Sometimes a film will be made showing someone forgiving enemies like Gandhi, but not often. Maybe the amount of time for Karma to happen to an enemy will exceed our lifetime and most want more instant gratification.

    Star Trek liked to show future people as having an evolved ethical and moral standard. I didn't believe that so I was never a fan. When I saw Alien the first time and the crew was shown as a bunch of people we might see on a garbage scow today, I thought now that's more like it.
    I know I'll never be like Gandhi or Jesus but I'm not saying I wouldn't go fishing with the guys.
    Crispin and B1u3Dr4g0n1 like this.

  6. #36
    ca
    Oct 2011
    Quebec
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    Folks,

    This one kind of links the ethics + payback issues together if you will....another true story from my transportation days.

    We had an underutilized branch line with one solitary customer still getting service.....it probably costs us $1,000,000 or so per year to keep it open versus the revenue of $250,000 or so....so it just made sense to shut it down.

    The regional operations manager asked me and my buddy Norm to pay the customer a visit and try to have him accept his loads at a nearby rail yard....the company was a wholesaler of vegetables, carrots, etc.....and would bring in produce during the colder months of the year from the southwest US....

    I crunched some numbers and decided to drop his rate by $250 per load to accept delivery at the more distant point and he could pick up the produce with his own trucks.....at the ramp at that location.

    When we visited the ramp it was in pretty bad shape and would have been dangerous to use his forklift truck for offloading. I went on record stating we'd have the ops people lay outdoor plywood down and that should do the trick....so say $500 of material and $500 labor costs.....a measly $1000.

    Got back to the office and told the regional manager the deal we worked out....his answer no money in the budget....we had just saved his department $1,000,000 in expenses.......let's just say I was steamed big time.....I said f u and hung up....he called back and said I couldn't do that....hung up on his 3 times running...

    He's still there as Senior VP burning himself out....he lost most of his friends and wife along the way.....not success in my books....so there's the payback in a round about way.

    Regards + HH

    Bill
    B1u3Dr4g0n1 likes this.

  7. #37
    us
    Jul 2009
    Whiting, NJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill from lachine View Post
    I just found in my industry at least it was a pretty tight knit crowd and if you were a sleazy type....the word got around that you weren't to be trusted....just an unwritten rules so to speak..... so what came around went around.

    I was always pretty much a free spirit type.....so I was driven by the challenge not the money.....in some ways it made my life much easier and less complicated by avoiding the games some others played.
    Bill, I'm with you 100%. I was in various sales positions (acct Exc - Regional Sales Manager) in the maritime industry over 35 years. We not only had tons of rules and agencies to deal with(i.e. FMC), you had the customer base too.

    Like you, I understood, company's come and go, but your reputation lasts forever!

    Besides, I'm not one to try and gain something by giving up my principles, I leave that for the losers

  8. #38
    us
    May 2005
    Northern California
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    Many years ago I was first entering the workforce after military service. I got a job at a union papermill. I was on sort of an assembly line taking reams of paper off a pallet and setting then on a moving belt where they were wrapped, glued, labelled and then stacked on another pallet at the end of the line. After a bit, the pallet we were working on was empty but the forklift driver that was to keep us supplied was nowhere in sight. Instead of all of us standing there doing nothing I got on the lift, took the empty pallet away and picked up a full one and brought it to the line so we could continue working. I ended up getting taken to the office and chewed out by the company rep AND my union rep. Right then I learned the non-productive value of unions and I quit a few days later. Now, many years have passed and one of my sons got a big promotion with the company he works at. As he was telling me about his new position he said "Dad, there are two things I want to thank you for. Teaching me how to play golf and a good work ethic". I don't know who I was prouder of, him or myself.
    hursst likes this.
    Banking off a Northeast wind, sailin' on a summer breeze

  9. #39
    us
    Aug 2012
    MA
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker

    Probably the idea of turning the other cheek is lost on most of us. The concept seems as foreign as it must have to those that heard it the first time.
    Payback can seem righteous at the time we felt victimized. My experience says, right or wrong, there might be more payback if people had the courage.
    I've known people that got completely victimized in our courts but left with the attitude that "They had their day in court" and somehow felt good or at least OK about it. For others it would add fuel to the fire.
    Modern media makes bucks showing victims getting even with their persecutors. Sometimes a film will be made showing someone forgiving enemies like Gandhi, but not often. Maybe the amount of time for Karma to happen to an enemy will exceed our lifetime and most want more instant gratification.

    Star Trek liked to show future people as having an evolved ethical and moral standard. I didn't believe that so I was never a fan. When I saw Alien the first time and the crew was shown as a bunch of people we might see on a garbage scow today, I thought now that's more like it.
    I know I'll never be like Gandhi or Jesus but I'm not saying I wouldn't go fishing with the guys.
    I find it particularly interesting / funny that often its the ones thumping the book and quoting the verses that are generally the first to seek revenge. I guess they are stuck on the OT and havnt quite made it the the New.

  10. #40
    us
    Jack of all trades master of none

    Feb 2013
    Grays Harbor washington
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    To many people mix integrity for ethics thinking both are the same. They are not, To the OP you showen great integrity sticking to your moral compass. Ethics are elastic or the bounds of interpretation of the laws. Comming from a person who has friends and relitives in the the legal profession they all have told me this ethics are elastic. what is ethical today may not be ethical 10 or 100 years from now. the law may not change but the ethics will. Your Inegrity is your moral compass. ethics are a guide line for following that compass.
    You never know what the tide or wind may bring in to your life. The best days are always ahead of you never behind you.

  11. #41

    Jun 2007
    21,213
    13659 times
    Quote Originally Posted by bill from lachine View Post
    Folks,

    Since this has come up on various threads....thought I'd throw this one out there and see where it leads.

    Most professions have some sort of code of ethics or other which they have to follow...comes with the territory.

    Myself spending my career in Transportation Marketing (railway specifically).....I had mine to live up to....they called it the blue book which we had to follow....we had to follow the laws of both Canada and the US as it applied to our industry among other things....and we signed it and followed it... effectively if we didn't it was grounds for dismissal....

    At some point or other I made a quote to a potential new customer at the request of one of the sales reps.....I get a call from the GM insisting I retract the quote.....due to a conflict with a current wholesale customer we had......this would have been considered collusion and legally wrong.....

    So here I am between a rock and a hard place.....go ahead and retract the quote...thus breaking the law.....or refuse to retract the quote and commit career suicide so to speak....

    My response the quote stands for the 45 day period.....you want to retract it be my guest....me I'm standing firm.

    He backed down and moved on to another position elsewhere in the company....from my experience in the industry.....95% of my confreres played by the rules....and maybe 5% would
    play loose and easy with the ethics....

    What's your experience ethics wise in your careers past or present....let's see where this goes.

    Regards + HH

    Bill

    MY experience at MAX Security Prison in Virginia was this: Feds & Virgina Governor, & "Commiss" - DOC emphasized TX (Treatment Programs for inmates in Prisons)... BUT! Our first Warden was Viet Nam Vet & Pro-Security; will NEVER forget the "pic" of him standing at front door of our Prison, with a Baton in his hands. I was Corrections Counselor, case-load of 98; 6 TX Programs. 2 years later, NEW Warden; I was Treatment Programs Supervisor, expanded the 6 TX Programs to 21... working VERY closely with Va. Dept. of Correctional Education (also in the "Max Prison"). ETHICS wise, I went against DOC policy of "Christians only" Religious Programing; Operations Officer came to me & advised me that FEDS wanted Religious Programing for NON-Christian inmates... SO!
    Last edited by Rebel - KGC; Feb 16, 2013 at 09:50 AM.

  12. #42

    Jun 2007
    21,213
    13659 times
    (Had to break this into two parts); With a Minor in Religion, being INTERFAITH, I was able to comply. DOC "Downtown" had NOTHING to guide me; so, Operations Officer at our MAX Prison & I were able to advise our Warden as to the VARIOUS non-Christian Religions, SPECIAL diets requirements... the "WHOLE nine yards". OUR MAX prison became the ONLY MAX Prison in Virginia for such. Muslims, Jews, Native Americans... Unfortunately, we got some real SCUMBAGS transferred to our MAX Prison. Funny incident... because I was grandson of POWERFUL King Chief & his daughter, "The Princess", Native Americans invited me into their CIRCLE - DRUMS. I smudged with them and Security Guards told Watch Commander, I was smoking POT with the "Injuns". A "not so funny" incident is when I confronted Nation of Islam leaders that had just been transferred in; THEY said NOI rules superseded our DOC rules; told 'em NOPE! (I am white); I was Top Amin. on Duty (Warden). Told Watch Commander to get Warden to transfer THOSE NOI leaders out; they were... the NEXT day. I was using SITUATIONAL ETHICS, learned in my Religion class at JMU.
    Last edited by Rebel - KGC; Feb 16, 2013 at 09:54 AM.

  13. #43
    Charter Member
    us
    Cat teaches man, not everything here serves him.

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    S. Fl.
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    Quote Originally Posted by davest View Post
    ethics are what you do when no one is looking.
    Best way I have heard it put yet! Thank you for that davest.
    RJC, you surprise me a little, such eye for an eye. I'm not really one to go "out of my way" to screw someone over for payback.
    I did get to serve revenge "cold" one time, on someone that more than deserved it. It was still a hollow unfulfilled feeling. I was then made no better, than the one that had originally wronged me (oh, but I got even in a big big way, and they never saw it coming, or from where or who it came from).

    Perhaps ethics, like art, is subjective.
    Yesterday is history, tomorow a mystery. All we have is the here and now, it's a special gift. That's why we call it "The Present"

    Pity the poor agnostic dyslexic insomniac who lies awake at night wondering if there really is a Dog.

    https://www.etsy.com/shop/patharp?ref=si_shop

  14. #44

    Jun 2007
    21,213
    13659 times
    Quote Originally Posted by pat-tekker-cat View Post
    Best way I have heard it put yet! Thank you for that davest.
    RJC, you surprise me a little, such eye for an eye. I'm not really one to go "out of my way" to screw someone over for payback.
    I did get to serve revenge "cold" one time, on someone that more than deserved it. It was still a hollow unfulfilled feeling. I was then made no better, than the one that had originally wronged me (oh, but I got even in a big big way, and they never saw it coming, or from where or who it came from).

    Perhaps ethics, like art, is subjective.
    VERY subjective...

  15. #45
    Charter Member
    us
    WolfPack member

    Aug 2009
    New Hampshire
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    RJC, you surprise me a little, such eye for an eye.
    If you knew where I was coming from you would understand a little better Pat.I dont bother anybody,I mind my own business,I expect the same in return.I dont screw people over,I expect the same in return.If I trust somebody and they turn around and screw me well to me thats the same as dropping the gloves.I'll just say I learned not to turn the other cheek.Been there done that.

 

 
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