Have any of you ever asked this question.

[onfire]

We are always hearing about how Social Security is going to run out of money.
How come we never hear about Welfare running out of money?
What's interesting, the first group "worked for" their money... The second didn't!

 

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[Limitool]

Social Security is "funded" by the working people and drawn upon by the retired. But were running out of people to fund this completely soon. People now for years think of S.S. as a retirement fund in which to live off of later in life. And everyone wants it and think they deserve it because they paid into it. It was never meant to be a "retirement" fund for all. Even the rich and well-to-do can draw off this.

Welfare is run on borrowed money when tax money runs out. We pay into this also and some never draw off this fund. We worked to pay into this also.

This thread is going to die a QUICK death.... probably for the best!!!! Good subject for at the 2nd forum.

 

[BC1969]

Work most of your life, let the economy tank, lose all your investments and your car and home, then find yourself on welfare, or starve and or freeze to death, then ask yourself how you would respond to somebody that says you are lazy and have not worked for your money.
Makes it hard for me to respond since I am on welfare, but I was once on top of my game and paid in a small fortune in taxes and social security tax.

Mike

 

[Limitool]

Work most of your life, let the economy tank, lose all your investments and your car and home, then find yourself on welfare, or starve and or freeze to death, then ask yourself how you would respond to somebody that says you are lazy and have not worked for your money.
Makes it hard for me to respond since I am on welfare, but I was once on top of my game and paid in a small fortune in taxes and social security tax.

Mike

That's what its there for Mike (welfare). It's to help people who need it. That's what I said above... everybody pays into this fund also but not everybody ever uses it. It doesn't mean your lazy and it surely wasn't meant to say anyone is. But everybody expects S.S. to be their for them.

 

[BC1969]

Yeah I know what you meant, I posted that for the op, as for SS, that whole system is messed up, there are plenty of multimillionaires that draw from it, sure they probably paid in a ton of money to it, but I think with SS you should only draw it if you need it, but that is a gray area, what one person sees as a need may be totally different from the next guy.
That and when SS was implemented, to draw it at age 65, you were near the upper tier of life expectancy for those days, now what is the average life expectancy, add a good 25 years to it, and that is why it is unsustainable, so everybody hurry up and kick the bucket lol.

Mike

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Add this to the equation. At least 50% of Americans die before age 60... what happens to those people's funds who are single and kids are grown? It remains in the fund pool....








American by birth, Patriot by choice.

I would rather die standing on my two feet defending our Constitution than live a lifetime on my knees......

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Thread is borderline politics so be careful in the wording of replies....






American by birth, Patriot by choice.

I would rather die standing on my two feet defending our Constitution than live a lifetime on my knees......

 

[onfire]

That's what its there for Mike (welfare). It's to help people who need it. That's what I said above... everybody pays into this fund also but not everybody ever uses it. It doesn't mean your lazy and it surely wasn't meant to say anyone is. But everybody expects S.S. to be their for them.

Your right it's there for the people who need it, not for people who just want it. and no not everyone pay's into it.

 

[Limitool]

Your right it's there for the people who need it, not for people who just want it. and no not everyone pay's into it.

Yea your right about the "not everyone pay's into it" part but a lot do and never draw from this fund. For some people it becomes a way of life... their expected income for an unlimited amount of time. It should be there to help bridge folks until they can get their feet back under themselves again... but I've seen folks on it for years with no change in sight.

When my youngest child's mother died when she was 2 years old I could have drawn S.S. for 16 years. And it was enough to totally make my house payment with money left over. But I didn't do it. Some folks will say it wasn't for you but for the child. True... but part of this is/was for food, housing and general welfare also. I made $70,000+ p/yr. and didn't need it or expect it. Most people were stunned when they heard about it. There ought to be a cut-off for any S.S. help and a structured plan when using the state welfare system. These are my thoughts on this subject...

T.H. I believe I was right in my first post (so are you) that this won't last long and we ought to be careful. Very hard to tip toe around properly but I understand your concern.

 

[Follows Camp Craig]

Always look on the bright side of life.
(although I am not sure what is worse)

 

[NHBandit]

Social Security originally was supposed to be similar to a savings account that your bosses also contributed to. Not to be messed with, and for the benefit of those who contributed to it. Without getting political, the government stole it, and they started giving it to people who never paid into it, and now they tell us it's in trouble. Who's fault is that ? Give me all the money I & my employers paid in right now in the form of a check and I'll invest it in more secure places. Thanks.

 

[BC1969]

Maybe they should just euthanize all the people that cannot support themselves, start with the mentally ill folks whom nobody will hire anyway, heck they are doing it in parts of Europe, so it can't be that bad can it ?
Then start on the working poor, sure they have pride and don't want welfare, that's great, unfortunately being working poor normally means no heat in the winter, no expensive cable TV/internet that so many take for granted, but that's the healthy ones, God forbid you get sick while at the working poor level, then really forget the heat then, then its choose between food or medicine, so scratch them folks out.
Getting close to that Utopian society so many want if you do that.
Just read the other day they can now test infants to tell if they have mental illness, so what then? Umm I don't want this baby, take it away ? Or euthanize time, this may sound far fetched...give it some time, we shall see.

The Burden on Society.

 

[packerbacker]

So as to not get this thread locked, all I can sugest to Limitool is to go into the SS Ofice and tell me how many old, retired, hard working folks you see in there compared to those that appear to be in their 20's and not concerned about their appearance. Also note the ARMED guard at the door. We don't even have an armed guard at our banks. I guess old people can get pretty rowdy. (no politics there, just a report on visual sightings)

 

[Limitool]

So as to not get this thread locked, all I can sugest to Limitool is to go into the SS Ofice and tell me how many old, retired, hard working folks you see in there compared to those that appear to be in their 20's and not concerned about their appearance. Also note the ARMED guard at the door. We don't even have an armed guard at our banks. I guess old people can get pretty roudy. (no politics there, just a report on visual sightings)

You are totally right about your "sightings". I saw the same thing last summer when I took my mother in for some business. What are they in their for you think... disability money?

The S.S. fund would of been fine for a lot longer but the fund got so big that some folks couldn't stand it and raided it long ago... now we could use those raided funds.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Always look on the bright side of life.
(although I am not sure what is worse)

The MONTIES! Join Monty Python Society of America! PROFOUND Wisdom!

 

[davest]

all I can add to this discussion is that if it wasn't for social security, there would be a lot more people on welfare.

good luck with all your investments and savings, the big banks want them all, and they would be very happy if everyone had to live
on credit.

 

[packerbacker]

the druggies in our town, and I'm sure almost every other town in this country, all share information about SS, what to say and claim and how to get on it. They report to the county mental health facilities and know what to say to get recorded as "Having been there" with a mental problem. Then they go to the SS Office and claim mental health disability or drug/alcohol caused disability. After that they kick back with their druggie friends and wait for that big check with their "back pay" on it and, when it arrives, they go party in the park. After that it becomes their life-long income. Mental health uses county vehicles and employees to drive around the countryside picking these people up to take to doctor appointments and other government offices. They will even claim to be suicidal so they can get their clothes washed, a free meal and a bed for the night. Sometimes they overdose, get taken to the hospital and then the cops take them to mental health where they crap charcoal all over the place and have workers, not hospital staff, wash their clothes and clean up after them. If you want to sing kum-bye-ya, go ahead, but I look at the REAL world.
Let me add also....It's RAMPANT!....not just a few cases.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

the druggies in our town, and I'm sure almost every other town in this country, all share information about SS, what to say and claim and how to get on it. They report to the county mental health facilities and know what to say to get recorded as "Having been there" with a mental problem. Then they go to the SS Office and claim mental health disability or drug/alcohol caused disability. After that they kick back with their druggie friends and wait for that big check with their "back pay" on it and, when it arrives, they go party in the park. After that it becomes their life-long income. Mental health uses county vehicles and employees to drive around the countryside picking these people up to take to doctor appointments and other government offices. They will even claim to be suicidal so they can get their clothes washed, a free meal and a bed for the night. Sometimes they overdose, get taken to the hospital and then the cops take them to mental health where they crap charcoal all over the place and have workers, not hospital staff, wash their clothes and clean up after them. If you want to sing kum-bye-ya, go ahead, but I look at the REAL world.
Let me add also....It's RAMPANT!....not just a few cases.

"Kumbaya"... That's not a "Monties" Song is it...?

 

[BC1969]

It takes more than having just been there, and let me tell you from personal experience, and not speculation, if you are not mentally ill when you go into a community mental health agency, you sure as hell will be when you come out.
They treat you the same way the general public does, like a burden, piece of garbage poor excuse of a human that needs to be exterminated..and they try and do just that, on two occasions their Indian can't speak English supposed doctor, prescribed me meds that if taken together could result in death, imagine how many of the trusting ignorant ones just take their meds without question or research end up dead..I bet quite a few.
And yeah you are right a lot of druggies try and get money that way, but from being there all the time, most of the people in there are vets with PTSD..so where does the system go from here, I seen the reactions of folks when they wanted to trim vet benefits, wait till they all lose their benefits through SS..bet a lot of folks will be singing a different tune then.

The has compassion for the human condition guy.

Edit, I should have said why all the vets are in there trying to get help through SS, ever try and get mental health help through the VA ? Yeah good luck with that one..such a great country we live in.
That's probably why 3 vets a day commit suicide on average, that's exactly what the system wants, they off themselves, good then we don't have to pay to treat them..we go and protect the big oil profits, just so we can come home and left to rot away..its criminal.

 

[packerbacker]

My wife worked for a mental health facility for years and she had a true compassion for those that needed help beyond their control. She still goes to church with some of her "clients" and she even has a few on her facebook. (I hate facebook myself) She has had parents of suicidal teens thank her for saving their kids lives. She has stopped others from killing themselves by just talking to them on the phone. She also had those that threatened suicide that she knew wouldn't do it but just wanted attention. Not all mental health workers are as callous as you percieve although my wife has stated that there were some that wanted to just get through the day without getting personal with the folks they were dealing with. The main problem, to me, is recognizing the fine line between the folks that really need the help and those that use the system. It can be a tough call and, as public agencies, you can't just say that your gut feeling tells you someone is faking and deny them benefits. It's like all the other assistance programs we have in this country. There are the ones the programs were designed to help and then there are the scammers that steal from these same programs. Another shortfall is that, with the local agencies like I was speaking of, there isn't an ongoing treatment of these people. The agencies just seem to put out the fires when there is an obvious problem but never really get into the cause/s of the problem. I don't know how the VA works except for the horror stories I've heard. I've dealt with them personally but not for mental health needs.