Oregon Vikings off topic.... free for all thread!

[Limitool]

Mr. Viking will be joining the 3D archery professional circuit within 3-4 weeks.... Well it might be a little longer but quickly!?

 

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[Oregon Viking]

Replaced your older strap with an adjustable Velcro one... used your rope though...

 

[Limitool]

Have ya tried pulling on release yet and play with the trigger as sent to ya? I'm sure you have.

 

[releventchair]

 

[Oregon Viking]

Have ya tried pulling on release yet and play with the trigger as sent to ya? I'm sure you have.

Yep! I like the release. I do not like the wrist strap attached to the release... The Carter uses 4 fingers to pull... and the attached wrist strap is also pulling effecting the way I'm holding the Carter. No... too many players in the game! I might be biased (Duh, I'm a finger shooter..) But I don't like a wrist strap release by itself.

 

[Limitool]

Ok... I know we talked for awhile today and I'm just gonna write it here as a reminder / guide.

1. Don't cut any arrows yet... you don't know the proper length yet (not a bad thing!). Get some 175 grain tips for the overly long shafts for now to "soften" them.
2. Put the narrow nylon rope back on the release sent. Dental floss the string serving just below the nocking point. Go 3-4 layers deep for a 1/2". Now... the longer the release rope is the shorter the draw will be upon anchoring. BUT... when you "twist" your hand to anchor it will NOT torque the bow string.
3. Using a D-loop and a direct hook-up from release (no rope) needs to be thought though. The longer the D-loop the more "forgiveness" from twisting it will have upon anchoring on the bow string.
4. Using a short release aid rope into a D-loop will decrease arrow length also and avoid torquing the bow string at all.

Number 2, 3 & 4 all have a direct bearing upon your final arrow length. But you have room to play with what got guy. That's a LOT to think about and I wish you were closer for me to help more.

I know your a finger shooter and the release I sent is a total opposite... you need to be real patient and keep trying. Remember: readjust the strap to a 80-20% or 90 -10% and DROP a finger off the release...?

 

[Oregon Viking]

D loops and string and wrist straps with rope attached to a thumb release and a trigger...... K.I.S.S. it ain't!
I don't currently have a bow press so I can't change the bow's draw length. So...I grabbed the bow, used three fingers and shot! One above the arrow, 2 below.. WOW! Talk about an easy, simple way to do something!

 

[Limitool]

If it works best for you and your happy with the accuracy you can obtain... then by all means just stick with it (finger-releasing). It IS A HUGE CHANGE WITH THE RELEASE SENT! I told you this in PM's.

All that release is gonna do that I sent is give a smoother, faster more accurate result downrange vs fingers. But as I've said... it a slow learning curve and patience needs to be applied. That release is a 1000% more sensitive than your fingers, smoother, less torque on string and if a proper squeeze can be applied with a good follow thru much more accurate than fingers. Don't get to many "Chiefs" into the mix either.

Ever try 2 fingers below the arrow and just readjust the tiller?

 

[Oregon Viking]

If it works best for you and your happy with the accuracy you can obtain... then by all means just stick with it (finger-releasing). It IS A HUGE CHANGE WITH THE RELEASE SENT! I told you this in PM's.

All that release is gonna do that I sent is give a smoother, faster more accurate result downrange vs fingers. But as I've said... it a slow learning curve and patience needs to be applied. That release is a 1000% more sensitive than your fingers, smoother, less torque on string and if a proper squeeze can be applied with a good follow thru much more accurate than fingers. Don't get to many "Chiefs" into the mix either.

Ever try 2 fingers below the arrow and just readjust the tiller?

I have been shooting 3 fingers under the arrow and it's actually more accurate.

I contacted Forest Carter, owner of Carter Enterprises and he informed me the "adjusto trigger" will fit this release. Almost all Carter releases now have this trigger. He said it will give me quite a bit of adjustability.

 

[Oregon Viking]

I now have a sling. Very comfortable.



Let me show you Brad one of my favorite "aids" I shoot recurves so.... Oh, new take down recurve might be in my future.






Tried the Carter release without the wrist strap, liked it 'till I grazed my face with my right hand!
Forrest Carter said that adding thee... adjusto trigger would make the trigger MUCH easier to adjust... not so damn sensitive.
I tried wrapping the rope around the dental floss. It took forever! D loop I like, hook and go. D loop twist you say? If you tie your D loop with opposing knots (one left of string one right) you'll start with a twist and take it out when you draw.
My friend that I shoot with has opinions too so I have to take your info, and his, and try it all!

Accuracy finger style is quite a bit better then with a release. Of course I'm not used to shooting with a release yet.
Shooting with fingers. Nock the arrow. pull, well known anchor point..check. Release.
Shooting with a release. hook, pull, turn my hand in an awkward position, finding a new (to me) anchor point, then use pull through or back tension.

I have learned that wrist strap releases with the index finger trigger .. suck! The hand behind my head...damn near I swear.. is not for me. I understand that wrist straps use different muscles and some claim they are easier. I have big strong arms, shoulders and fingers and it just isn't any easier for me. But Brad , the Carter release I will continue to work with. Also I thought of something, being a guitar player my fingers might be..should be.. more sensitive then most people. I think that makes my finger shooting pretty damn accurate! But I'm still working on the carter release.

 

[Limitool]

Yea shooting that Carter release I said was going to be a HUGE change. And grazing your face isn't as bad as a full smack down. But it is an "eye opener"! I've seen many folks take a full hit from themselves. Now I never turned my head at all when drawing, anchoring and firing. I kept it straight ahead. I anchored the kiss button between my lips and the string on the center end of my nose. Then I slightly lowered my head / nose into the string. Thumb anchored behind my neck. I wish ya the best buddy! Brad

 

[releventchair]

Went to a skull behind the ear anchor (from corner of mouth one) when I succumbed to sight pins.
Tried a thumb style release....What a mistake ! (Thump/dump ooops again and again from neck muscle.)

 

[Oregon Viking]

Update. Well brother brad. As you recommended I installed a kisser button. And half hour later.. UN installed it!
I did use some of my D loop material and made my own, kind of a knot. I can deal with that. peep sight. Oh hell no! It just slows down the simple system of shooting the arrow...fast! My bud that I shoot with, I let him read this thread.... he says... so this guy (you bro) has shot a few arrows big ******* deal!
he is cool and meant no disrespect.

I shot with the Carter release, with and without the wrist strap.... my new improved comfy velcro strap. Using my thumb...back tension.. I still can't get used to it. We decided to compare. Finger shooting, I'm very used to that was way more accurate the release shooting....which I'm not yet used to.
Part of that is how fast...and easy I can shoot finger style. Grab string..pull..boom!
With the release. Hook in to the D loop. pull, turn my hand in an awkward to me position...thumb fires it.
Now...I will continue to try the release, but I don't like a D loop...or dental floss as you use, then hook a release, with or with out a wrist strap, putting my hand/wrist/arm where it ain't sposed to be.. (I'am a recurve relic) then finally using back tension firing the arrow. WAY to much stuff between the string and my 3 fingers.

 

[releventchair]

Update. Well brother brad. As you recommended I installed a kisser button. And half hour later.. UN installed it!
I did use some of my D loop material and made my own, kind of a knot. I can deal with that. peep sight. Oh hell no! It just slows down the simple system of shooting the arrow...fast! My bud that I shoot with, I let him read this thread.... he says... so this guy (you bro) has shot a few arrows big ******* deal!
he is cool and meant no disrespect.

I shot with the Carter release, with and without the wrist strap.... my new improved comfy velcro strap. Using my thumb...back tension.. I still can't get used to it. We decided to compare. Finger shooting, I'm very used to that was way more accurate the release shooting....which I'm not yet used to.
Part of that is how fast...and easy I can shoot finger style. Grab string..pull..boom!
With the release. Hook in to the D loop. pull, turn my hand in an awkward to me position...thumb fires it.
Now...I will continue to try the release, but I don't like a D loop...or dental floss as you use, then hook a release, with or with out a wrist strap, putting my hand/wrist/arm where it ain't sposed to be.. (I'am a recurve relic) then finally using back tension firing the arrow. WAY to much stuff between the string and my 3 fingers.

You're writing to Brad ,so forgive the intrusion...Brad too: sorry but I can't help myself. I do fully respect your archery experience and knowledge .


Using a peep ,and touching your nose to the string when at full draw helps keep arrows pointed where you aim...A kisser button serves a similar function as touching your nose,just more precise . (?)
Peeps can be drilled out to allow a greater "window" of view. No ,that is not as good for splitting hairs ,but is fine for reasonable hunting distances.
Not rolling the string when drawing matters to keep the peep aligned. So ,I used the rubber tubing type to pull it into position.

A mechanical release comes into play(for novices) when axle to axle length (or limb tip to limb tip) is short enough to pinch or bind your fingers.
Imagine (if your bow does not bind due to it's length ),having such a V in your string when drawn that a finger gets forced out of position and loses contact...That's messed up.

The benefit to fingers for me ,was not leaving them in the truck , and finding out after I was in a tree. (Not unlike my quiver on the truck roof one time...).Or ,not dropping the release putting it on. Nothing against them. I was toying with an index finger release ,(outside right trigger) but it takes me a long time shooting to get the muscle memory down pat.
Pretty sure I mentioned to Brad when we met that it took me a long time to get used to changing my anchor point when going to pin sites...That memory thing again.
A change takes practice ,and practice till it gets ingrained.

 

[Oregon Viking]

You're writing to Brad ,so forgive the intrusion...Brad too: sorry but I can't help myself. I do fully respect your archery experience and knowledge .


Using a peep ,and touching your nose to the string when at full draw helps keep arrows pointed where you aim...A kisser button serves a similar function as touching your nose,just more precise . (?)
Peeps can be drilled out to allow a greater "window" of view. No ,that is not as good for splitting hairs ,but is fine for reasonable hunting distances.
Not rolling the string when drawing matters to keep the peep aligned. So ,I used the rubber tubing type to pull it into position.

A mechanical release comes into play(for novices) when axle to axle length (or limb tip to limb tip) is short enough to pinch or bind your fingers.
Imagine (if your bow does not bind due to it's length ),having such a V in your string when drawn that a finger gets forced out of position and loses contact...That's messed up.

The benefit to fingers for me ,was not leaving them in the truck , and finding out after I was in a tree. (Not unlike my quiver on the truck roof one time...).Or ,not dropping the release putting it on. Nothing against them. I was toying with an index finger release ,(outside right trigger) but it takes me a long time shooting to get the muscle memory down pat.
Pretty sure I mentioned to Brad when we met that it took me a long time to get used to changing my anchor point when going to pin sites...That memory thing again.
A change takes practice ,and practice till it gets ingrained.

You are more then welcome to respond, give input... Tell Brad that I still like finger shooting more then the releases. When I install the "adjusto trigger" it will make this release easier to shoot.

 

[Limitool]

Viking... Your able to shoot your "new" bow with fingers because the axle to axle is probably around 36". And releventchair is right that the shorter axle to axle bows just have to be shot with a release. Now Viking you keep mentioning firing your new release with back tension. In a perfect world that's what MANY pro's do/did. But the muscle memory required takes 10's of thousands of shot's to develop as does any form. And the strength required is seldom ever reached. I never went after that technique myself. 1. Head pointed straight, 2. bow arm out, 3. draw shoulder rolled up (rolls lower forearm away from string), draw and anchor, open bow hand COMPLETELY then aim.... And then this is where the disconnect comes in. Aiming screws with the release and when that happens the follow through is badly done so the finest aim is now gone. The reason for the disconnect is from 2 reasons. 1st is because of lack of strength. 2nd is from lack of experience. Muscle memory will NEVER be developed until the strength is developed first. Most folks want "instant" gratification from any change. It will NEVER happen without lowering your expectations, backing away from hitting a bullseye (there easy to hit), and "learning" to develop strength and a new form. And your friends comments aren't surprising... Nobody knows or can appreciate another's accomplishments unless you actually know them or seen their results in person.

Now Viking you mentioned shooting faster with your fingers. Probably true (is) because your used to it. But when out hunting how fast do you want to shoot? The whole idea behind a release, kisser, peep and such is accuracy... period. Now I won MANY target archery tournaments including local, state, regional, national and 2 top 10's at the Vegas Open during 2 days of qualifying toward the finals. All of this carrying over into my hunting setup. I have never fired a quick shot upon an animal in my life. Every deer (MANY) were killed taking my time or not shooting at all. Most were at point blank range but many were at 30-50 yds. And only a seasoned target archer / turned hunter should shoot beyond 30 yds. But that's just my opinion.

Your peep problem... releventchair was right that you can use a rubber hosed peep which aligns the peep perfectly at full draw. But... I never used this technique. I just dental flossed my serving until my arrow knock slightly snapped on and then learned where I had to rotate my string before drawing so my peep aligned perfectly at full draw every time. I used this technique in target and hunting both. And that release I sent is probably something in hindsight I shouldn't have introduced you too. I'll admit again... the average person does NOT know what a "touchy" release is. Viking has an idea now. And my target / hunting release is even toucher then that. But my muscle memory / aiming / follow through was developed to be able to handle it and then just continue "squeezing" this very light trigger.

MR. VIKING.... A PUBLIC THANK YOU FOR THE ITEMS YOU SENT ME!!!! THANKS YOU VERY MUCH AND THEY'LL ALL GET USED BUDDY. If I can send ya anything else I might have to help ya just let me know. Viking I just finished hand painting 2 different "Bugs Bunny" poses for my next to toy boxes. With the shells you sent I'm looking into maybe a "Little Mermaid" theme. Any other ideas? I also have 2 "Sponge-bob" boxes done also. Thanks again Viking.... Brad

 

[Oregon Viking]

You are welcome Brad!
Update. Peep sights are not for me. I don't like them at all, plus my eyes really don't like them!. A friend of a friend is going to let me try one of these. He really likes it.
Info.
Info - HIND SIGHT INC.

The products. I will be using an add on model using my existing Tru Glo pins.
Info - HIND SIGHT INC.

 

[Limitool]

You are welcome Brad!
Update. Peep sights are not for me. I don't like them at all, plus my eyes really don't like them!. A friend of a friend is going to let me try one of these. He really likes it.
Info.
Info - HIND SIGHT INC.

The products. I will be using an add on model using my existing Tru Glo pins.
Info - HIND SIGHT INC.

Something new to me.... but I truly hope it works for you. I always used the smallest peep available and never had a problem aligning it or seeing thru it even in very low light. But maybe I was just blessed or something?

BUT.... but once and only once I did have a problem to deal with. I was in my tree stand and it was very early daybreak. I saw a 6 pt. buck coming out of the marsh about 40 yds. away. It was going to walk about 12 yds. broadside to my stand of 22 ft. up. I had bow ready and waited for the buck to walk past me a little. I raised bow, drew, anchored and went to look through peep... I couldn't see anything! I pulled my head back to look while still @ full draw. A small leaf had gotten between string and fell over peep. The deer was still slowly walking. I blew to remove the leaf... then again harder. It worked doubley good! The leaf was gone, deer stopped and I took out both lungs. And even better still..... This deer ran 75 yds. and died directly under my best buddies tree stand with him in it! He got to his radio first and said to me... "Brad, I got one". I responded... "Good, then you can field dress it!" Fast forward 2.5 hrs now. I walk over to him and start to field dress it. He says... "Nope, not here... drag it back to your stand and do it!" Well hell... I don't want it near my stand either. Friends...??

 

[Oregon Viking]

Something new to me.... but I truly hope it works for you. I always used the smallest peep available and never had a problem aligning it or seeing thru it even in very low light. But maybe I was just blessed or something?

BUT.... but once and only once I did have a problem to deal with. I was in my tree stand and it was very early daybreak. I saw a 6 pt. buck coming out of the marsh about 40 yds. away. It was going to walk about 12 yds. broadside to my stand of 22 ft. up. I had bow ready and waited for the buck to walk past me a little. I raised bow, drew, anchored and went to look through peep... I couldn't see anything! I pulled my head back to look while still @ full draw. A small leaf had gotten between string and fell over peep. The deer was still slowly walking. I blew to remove the leaf... then again harder. It worked doubley good! The leaf was gone, deer stopped and I took out both lungs. And even better still..... This deer ran 75 yds. and died directly under my best buddies tree stand with him in it! He got to his radio first and said to me... "Brad, I got one". I responded... "Good, then you can field dress it!" Fast forward 2.5 hrs now. I walk over to him and start to field dress it. He says... "Nope, not here... drag it back to your stand and do it!" Well hell... I don't want it near my stand either. Friends...??

The hind sight is a lot like a rifle scope. ANY bow torque shows up as you have a front and rear sight. Read the above info/links brother Brad. The "info" link explains everything. That's how I roll... I read everything about every product, then hit the forums and see what people think. Reviews, ratings, good, bad...what was liked and/or disliked. Yes they dis peep sights but hey.....

 

[Limitool]

I read all of them completely through buddy (twice) before I responded to you.... I think somebody has "stolen" the terminology of bow torque. I admit maybe today I'm totally wrong. Maybe it is a MAJOR breakthrough and I hope so if it helps all archers.

But this I do know... a bow and arrow and a rifle will never have their aiming techniques confused or compared to each other. It's like apples and oranges. On a bow the further you separate two required aiming alignments the greater the aim required to align... and then skill demo's the execution of this aim. Same on a gun scope.

Who would you bet on between a professional target archer and you at just 60 ft. with a .22 at the same target? Just curious