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Thread: Warning to dog owners who hike in the woods

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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kray Gelder View Post
    Jim, I have never heard of cyanide devices, exploding no less. That is truly a criminal device. For a recreational pursuit, a non selective trap, left out there to catch anything that sniffs around, is a far cry from swinging a metal detector. The person may gain tremendous enjoyment from it, but IMO it's careless, thoughtless, and selfish. If you cause harm to innocent creatures, like someone's dog, I strongly suggest a different form of recreation. This isn't the early 1800's, there are people, kids, and pets everywhere. Stupid dog, sure hoped he learned from that. Ass backward logic.
    Doesn't matter if it's a far cry. It's legal, and people have done it for 100's of years. I never have, just to set the record straight. And, the really good trappers I know go to great pains to do their sets where there's little chance of harming a pet. But there are jerks in every activity, and it pays to know what's going on. I also worry about Heidi being shot when I'm out in the boondocks. She has the aspect of a coyote, though no skilled hunter would mistake her for one. Still, it's just one more thing I need to be aware of. When I head up a canyon, I always check to see if there's evidence of others being in there that day. If there are, I usually go somewhere else.....especially during hunting season. Fortunately, I live where there are millions of acres to roam around in, so I can pick and choose.
    Jim
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  2. #17
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    Well around here nobody in their right mind lets their pets wander outside anymore. About 15 years ago dogs in the area started just disappearing. After that, nobody let them out anymore. Then our culture changed and people got smaller breeds and those are kept inside. Years ago I used to see cats and dogs running loose, lots of them laying dead in the road too. It's been forever since I've seen either a cat or dog dead in the road, and pets unfortunately will run right into a road and get hit. With the coyotes and eagles around, the cat owners don't let their cats out (I certainly don't) and it is actually against the law to let a dog run loose. I think it's been at least 10 years since a stray dog came on my lawn. At least ten years since I SAW one on the lawn, that is. I see people with them on leashes going down the street all the time. I also hear one or two barking from time to time in the distance. Now coyote, bobcat, mountain lion, opossum, raccoons, eagles, etc., yes, they run or fly loose.
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  3. #18
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    Glad your pup is okay and I hope your hand heals up. Just my personal opinion, I hate trapping. I was a hunter for many years and I accompanied my Dad and Uncle trapping for years when I was boy and I've seen too many animals needlessly suffer terribly. I understand it's legal, just my opinion.
    HH
    dts
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim in Idaho View Post
    Doesn't matter if it's a far cry. It's legal, and people have done it for 100's of years. I never have, just to set the record straight. And, the really good trappers I know go to great pains to do their sets where there's little chance of harming a pet. But there are jerks in every activity, and it pays to know what's going on. I also worry about Heidi being shot when I'm out in the boondocks. She has the aspect of a coyote, though no skilled hunter would mistake her for one. Still, it's just one more thing I need to be aware of. When I head up a canyon, I always check to see if there's evidence of others being in there that day. If there are, I usually go somewhere else.....especially during hunting season. Fortunately, I live where there are millions of acres to roam around in, so I can pick and choose.
    Jim
    Yeah Jim, you speak the truth. Not quite so cranky this morning. It's today's reality. And I envy your living in the great state of Idaho. I lived there a total of 7 years, in both Sandpoint, and the Moscow area. I loved the opportunity to go an hour or less in any direction and be out there. REALLY miss trout fishing the streams. If wanted to work at it, I could scramble down into a canyon, and have the entire river to myself. Great time.
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokeythecat View Post
    Well around here nobody in their right mind lets their pets wander outside anymore. About 15 years ago dogs in the area started just disappearing. After that, nobody let them out anymore. Then our culture changed and people got smaller breeds and those are kept inside. Years ago I used to see cats and dogs running loose, lots of them laying dead in the road too. It's been forever since I've seen either a cat or dog dead in the road, and pets unfortunately will run right into a road and get hit. With the coyotes and eagles around, the cat owners don't let their cats out (I certainly don't) and it is actually against the law to let a dog run loose. I think it's been at least 10 years since a stray dog came on my lawn. At least ten years since I SAW one on the lawn, that is. I see people with them on leashes going down the street all the time. I also hear one or two barking from time to time in the distance. Now coyote, bobcat, mountain lion, opossum, raccoons, eagles, etc., yes, they run or fly loose.
    Yeah, pets are now prey, unfortunately. By the way, what part of the country do you live?
    Last edited by Kray Gelder; Dec 10, 2017 at 09:02 AM.


    "You pretend to pay us, we pretend to work." --- Former Soviet Citizen

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kray Gelder View Post
    Wow Tom, that's amazing. So glad it ended relatively better than it could have. I have to remark that all who have replied are seemingly so casual about this. What the H are they trapping? No, that's a stupid question, as I am aware of what critters wander in the north woods. Why are they still trapping? Are skins still that valuable? Real curious what financial gains justify this in populated areas.
    Having trapped in my youth , there was money in it. More than today for sure. A look at former greatest markets and politics will explain much of the supplies stagnation in places.

    That said. When prices dropped and stayed depressed ,the number of trappers declined. Followed quickly by a rise in multiple species of fur bearers.
    Your area may well differ but the combination of cleaner farming practices ( eliminating fence/ hedge rows and more efficient harvests) combined with the rise of predators the pheasant population plummeted. As a trapper finding the kill sites in pheasant habitat ( hens caught on nests at night) and the nests missing their egg clutches ,it was no surprise when pheasants became a rare sight.

    Raccoons,possum and other critters delight in egg eating( waterfowl not excluded) Nature has her ways and when prey is severely reduced ,predators bear less young .A delay between them ,but like water ,the relationship seeks it' s own level..Usually.
    Adaptability matters greatly. Coyote will eat things like cow poop if they must. Little they will not eat.
    When rabbits decline ,fox decline when coyotes over lap fox territories ,what happens to the fox is not pleasant when caught.
    With coyotes on the rise nationwide more than fox suffer. Predation on deer fawns can be considerable.

    We ( humans) affect the evolution of a species wane or decline ,usually for our preference.
    Seeking a conservation type management on a holistic level means greater control of the more adaptable predators to enhance greater recruitment ( survival beyond birth for a while) of other species. That does not mean extermination of a species. Even though there were near extermination goals past with coyotes . It only proved their adaptability
    A specie well adapted to conflict with humans and others....( entire hound packs dead in minutes, and multiple hunters losing a brace or other number of hounds while hunting.) At least until wolves arrive in their territories where the coyotes face what the fox before them did.

    When numbers of a fur bearer are high there is a reason. Fur prices today do not make a trap line worth it to me from,a money perspective . Gas alone would be hard to replace.
    Should the trapper on my land remove coyotes , I' ll probably cache a coffee can he can spot with cash to offset his costs.
    Last edited by releventchair; Dec 10, 2017 at 11:44 AM.
    Jim in Idaho and Kray Gelder like this.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kray Gelder View Post
    Yeah Jim, you speak the truth. Not quite so cranky this morning. It's today's reality. And I envy your living in the great state of Idaho. I lived there a total of 7 years, in both Sandpoint, and the Moscow area. I loved the opportunity to go an hour or less in any direction and be out there. REALLY miss trout fishing the streams. If wanted to work at it, I could scramble down into a canyon, and have the entire river to myself. Great time.
    Yup, Kray, Idaho's a great place to live, and I've been privileged to live here for 42 years. I spent a few years around Pullman, so know the Moscow area well. Now I live in the cold corner of the state...got down to 4.1 last night, and it's only about 15 right now, though the great country here makes the cold winters worth putting up with.
    Jim
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  8. #23
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    papa

    Feb 2017
    Georgetown, SC
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    Quote Originally Posted by releventchair View Post
    Having trapped in my youth , there was money in it. More than today for sure. A look at former greatest markets and politics will explain much of the supplies stagnation in places.

    That said. When prices dropped and stayed depressed ,the number of trappers declined. Followed quickly by a rise in multiple species of fur bearers.
    Your area may well differ but the combination of cleaner farming practices ( eliminating fence/ hedge rows and more efficient harvests) combined with the rise of predators the pheasant population plummeted. As a trapper finding the kill sites in pheasant habitat ( hens caught on nests at night) and the nests missing their egg clutches ,it was no surprise when pheasants became a rare sight.

    Raccoons,possum and other critters delight in egg eating( waterfowl not excluded) Nature has her ways and when prey is severely reduced ,predators bear less young .A delay between them ,but like water ,the relationship seeks it' s own level..Usually.
    Adaptability matters greatly. Coyote will eat things like cow poop if they must. Little they will not eat.
    When rabbits decline ,fox decline when coyotes over lap fox territories ,what happens to the fox is not pleasant when caught.
    With coyotes on the rise nationwide more than fox suffer. Predation on deer fawns can be considerable.

    We ( humans) affect the evolution of a species wane or decline ,usually for our preference.
    Seeking a conservation type management on a holistic level means greater control of the more adaptable predators to enhance greater recruitment ( survival beyond birth for a while) of other species. That does not mean extermination of a species. Even though there were near extermination goals past with coyotes . It only proved their adaptability
    A specie well adapted to conflict with humans and others....( entire hound packs dead in minutes, and multiple hunters losing a brace or other number of hounds while hunting.) At least until wolves arrive in their territories where the coyotes face what the fox before them did.

    When numbers of a fur bearer are high there is a reason. Fur prices today do not make a trap line worth it to me from,a money perspective . Gas alone would be hard to replace.
    Should the trapper on my land remove coyotes , I' ll probably cache a coffee can he can spot with cash to offset his costs.
    Relevantchair, I'd like to thank you for that excellent treatise, the causes and effects of disrupting the web of life in the natural world. It ripples throughout the entire system. We here in SC also have an exploding coyote population, and they're moving right into the suburbs. If the state would allow spotlighting for coyotes from vehicles in certain areas, we could put a temporary dent in their population, but they would catch on to that tactic soon enough. It's interesting to note the positive impact on the natural environment and species in Yellowstone since the reintroduction of wolves. When I had that brief job ( 2 years ) of patrolling That Army Corps of Engineers dam and canal project, I purchased my own set of magnetic mount halogen flood lights ( 4 lights ) and mounted them on the roof each night. Before that, I couldn't see a thing. There were coyotes everywhere!

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    Last edited by Kray Gelder; Dec 10, 2017 at 02:06 PM.


    "You pretend to pay us, we pretend to work." --- Former Soviet Citizen

  9. #24
    Charter Member
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    papa

    Feb 2017
    Georgetown, SC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim in Idaho View Post
    Yup, Kray, Idaho's a great place to live, and I've been privileged to live here for 42 years. I spent a few years around Pullman, so know the Moscow area well. Now I live in the cold corner of the state...got down to 4.1 last night, and it's only about 15 right now, though the great country here makes the cold winters worth putting up with.
    Jim
    Yeah, those cold winters are the price paid, for the rewards of the rest of the year.


    "You pretend to pay us, we pretend to work." --- Former Soviet Citizen

 

 
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