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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hillbilly Prince View Post
    I don't think he is speaking of voices in your head or aliens sending you thoughts. Some people seem unable to succeed, achieve, move on. There may be a pattern to their thoughtsl, even their actions which they need to break. Imagine a kid who was constantly belittled by his parents. He gets a bad grade and his father tells him, "I knew you would because you are stupid."
    Or whatever. Kid grows up, fails at something, and tells himself Well, I'm stupid, and gives up rather than logically figuring out what went wrong and try again.
    People can be conditioned.
    Now World is adding a religious aspect but this does not invalidate some of his points.
    Of course, it is possible I am missing World's point entirely but it is true children can be conditioned to fail or win. Think about people you know. The successful and the ones who seldom succeed.
    You appear to be very confident in your thinking.
    I came to a conclusion long ago. You are either predator or prey in this world. Of course, you do not have to be a full blown predatory type cheats people, lies and so on. But you at least better be aware of how things are, and take care of you and yours.
    When you put it that way, I can kind of understand what you mean. I know how the world works. I was a "nice" guy most of my life. Eventually, I got tired of the one way street and helping those who don't reciprocate. I look out for me and mine only.

    As for the conditioning aspect, my 50 year old younger brother would be the poster child. He never grew up, emotionally he's about 10, and full of contrition and guilt. He can't really support himself, going from meaningless job to meaningless job. He has no goals, ambition or imagination. He is his own worst enemy. I won't get into specifics but my father (at the very least) belittled the both of us on a daily occasion.

    So my question would be...How can one child be affected so traumatically and the other not? Being raised in the same household and all?

    Maybe because I confronted my father and put the fear of god in him the last time he tried to put his hands on me some 35 years ago?

    I think my brother still sees him as a monster. I see him as a weak little man who should have never had kids to begin with, much less tried to raise them.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by diggummup View Post
    When you put it that way, I can kind of understand what you mean. I know how the world works. I was a "nice" guy most of my life. Eventually, I got tired of the one way street and helping those who don't reciprocate. I look out for me and mine only.

    As for the conditioning aspect, my 50 year old younger brother would be the poster child. He never grew up, emotionally he's about 10, and full of contrition and guilt. He can't really support himself, going from meaningless job to meaningless job. He has no goals, ambition or imagination. He is his own worst enemy. I won't get into specifics but my father (at the very least) belittled the both of us on a daily occasion.

    So my question would be...How can one child be affected so traumatically and the other not? Being raised in the same household and all?





    Maybe because I confronted my father and put the fear of god in him the last time he tried to put his hands on me some 35 years ago?

    I think my brother still sees him as a monster. I see him as a weak little man who should have never had kids to begin with, much less tried to raise them.
    Out of Control People Use Anger to Get Back Control

    by Roy Masters

    Behavior modification as practiced in modern psychiatry, deals only with the symptoms and surface behavior rather than the underlying problem. The cause of violence in men, or even women for that matter, is the loss of sovereignty and self-control due to childhood trauma and daily stress. One of the most fundamental causes of anger lies in the many forms of injustice we see all around us. Frustrated by outrage and unreasonableness, we lose control. Perhaps it is a manipulative spouse playing mind games, spinning everything you say, {making what they did wrong your fault.} That kind of unreasonableness can literally cause anyone to blow a fuse. Intimidation invariably compels an escalation by the victim in an attempt to out- provoke the intimidator into submission and so regain control. That game always backfires, making the angry person look so much more wrong, that he ends up with the short end of the stick, while the real offender gets away with it.

    The secret of anger management already exists within. We need only to rediscover the civilizing art of grace under fire, growing in stature by dealing calmly and graciously with offenders.

    Forty-seven of my seventy-two years have been focused on helping people to overcome the hypnotic conditioning of environment. As a former professional hypnotist, I made a startling discovery which is that the pressures of everyday life exert a hypnotic influence over all of us from the day we were born. Furthermore, therapeutic hypnosis cannot solve problems, it is the problem itself.

    Every time we overreact to what we call stress, we activate a traumatic turmoil within that allows the circumstance to implant suggestions and behavior patterns below the level of our consciousness. These subconscious behavior patterns grow stronger than all the efforts of our will to overcome them. Worse yet, the very struggle we wage against any unwanted behavior only strengthens its power over us.

    From that point on, every painful event of childhood tends to reappear and be reinforced by the ever-present stress. In much the same way as a Vietnam veteran tends to overreact and jump behind the sofa upon hearing the backfiring of a bus, so does our implanted behavior automatically compel us to respond to look-alike and sound-alike situations. Unfortunately, our wives, husbands, or people we meet may not really be as mean-spirited as those who have hurt us in the past. Nevertheless, we react to them as though they were the very same violators or molesters of our past. In other words, the implanted behavior of our past continues to be reinforced in the present, to gain strength, and thus to guarantee a more miserable future.

    In order to solve any problem we must see clearly what the problem is. At a very vulnerable time in our life, we may have overreacted with anger to some type of cruelty. There is one particular form of anger that separates us hypnotically from the sovereignty of our natural self-control, and the name of that anger is resentment. Those who wish to dominate and control us need only to intimidate us. Through the guilt of being upset and the need for peace, we tend to transfer the control of our lives to outer authority, as we did as a child. We can, of course, continue to become submissive and to yield in order to keep the peace. But doing so does nothing but teach manipulative people to go on being angry to get their way. The more you empower the despot, the more he will take advantage and walk all over you like a doormat. When that gets too much for you, then comes the violent rebellion and thus hell escalates between husband and wife, father and son, mother and daughter.

    Therefore, the solution lies in the present moment. If you discover the way to stop reacting to the present as the extension of your past, a wonderful thing happens. It is the present reaction of resentment that builds upon the original implanted event and reinforces all aberrant behaviors. I have found a way to break that spell by reconnecting a person to his or her original innocence. This can be accomplished by a simple technique that needs no support group, just a tape and a book through which to relearn how to connect to our original selves and disconnect from overreacting. We become calm in the face of confusion and cruelty, and by remaining poised in the face of adversity, we starve the original root of implanted behaviors of their daily reinforcement and become free and in perfect control of our emotions.
    Last edited by worldtalker; Nov 05, 2018 at 07:38 AM.
    Rebel - KGC likes this.
    EVER WONDER WHERE YOUR THOUGHTS COME FROM?

    ​The Key...http://antidoteforall.com/

    For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:12

  3. #18
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    Who said I used anger or was out of control? You don't know the circumstances or my present day relationship for that matter. To presume you do shows you have much to learn yourself there grasshopper.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by diggummup View Post
    Who said I used anger or was out of control? You don't know the circumstances or my present day relationship for that matter. To presume you do shows you have much to learn yourself there grasshopper.
    Do you ever get upset?
    EVER WONDER WHERE YOUR THOUGHTS COME FROM?

    ​The Key...http://antidoteforall.com/

    For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:12

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by diggummup View Post
    Who said I used anger or was out of control? You don't know the circumstances or my present day relationship for that matter. To presume you do shows you have much to learn yourself there grasshopper.
    Kung Fu reference ftw Snatch the pebble from my hand.
    I don't think he was directing that at you specifically. Obviously he knows nothing of your life.
    I was thinking about what you posted- how you and your brother turned out in response to your upbringing.
    Maybe it is simply DNA. Maybe something you experienced which he did not. Did your mom take his crap? What were your grandparents like. Maybe you just inherited that trait which allowed you to confront him. But I think that is a big part of the difference between you. You took action it seems.
    Your father sounds like my grandfather. He was a monster. He had traits of a psychopath and sociopath. I don't mean psychopath as people commonly think of it. Children developed a sense of empathy around eight. That generally is missing in people like my grandfather.
    As a result my dad was determined not to be like him.
    My mom was laid back. Very little bothered her. I'm like her, and hard to get mad, but got that little bit of grandpa which makes me go medieval if pushed far enough.
    Humans are complicated. Some people spend their lives trying to fix something which they feel isn't right, and keeps them from being happy. Maybe they find a teacher, a book, religion or whatever and they feel like it works for them.
    You probably are as mystified by your brother as I am by mine. He did have one job most of his life but now he is content to be a couch potato lol.
    Does your brother bother you? I mean, do you try to get him motivated?
    People do change. They can change if they want. But it can be hard. You can't undo the past and it can be a crushing burden.
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    You may forget but let me tell you this: someone in some future time will think of us-Sappho

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hillbilly Prince View Post
    Kung Fu reference ftw Snatch the pebble from my hand.
    I don't think he was directing that at you specifically. Obviously he knows nothing of your life.
    I was thinking about what you posted- how you and your brother turned out in response to your upbringing.
    Maybe it is simply DNA. Maybe something you experienced which he did not. Did your mom take his crap? What were your grandparents like. Maybe you just inherited that trait which allowed you to confront him. But I think that is a big part of the difference between you. You took action it seems.
    Your father sounds like my grandfather. He was a monster. He had traits of a psychopath and sociopath. I don't mean psychopath as people commonly think of it. Children developed a sense of empathy around eight. That generally is missing in people like my grandfather.
    As a result my dad was determined not to be like him.
    My mom was laid back. Very little bothered her. I'm like her, and hard to get mad, but got that little bit of grandpa which makes me go medieval if pushed far enough.
    Humans are complicated. Some people spend their lives trying to fix something which they feel isn't right, and keeps them from being happy. Maybe they find a teacher, a book, religion or whatever and they feel like it works for them.
    You probably are as mystified by your brother as I am by mine. He did have one job most of his life but now he is content to be a couch potato lol.
    Does your brother bother you? I mean, do you try to get him motivated?
    People do change. They can change if they want. But it can be hard. You can't undo the past and it can be a crushing burden.
    People are the sum total of life experiences.
    EVER WONDER WHERE YOUR THOUGHTS COME FROM?

    ​The Key...http://antidoteforall.com/

    For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:12

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by worldtalker View Post
    Do you ever get upset?
    Well, I get upset But I am curious about your experience. I think your last post by Roy could be applied to many but not all.
    What led you to him? Did you experience the things he speaks about?
    One thing which I think is a plague on society is "perpetual adolescence". I heard Mark Levin use that phrase once and it describes perfectly so many people.
    Rebel - KGC likes this.
    You may forget but let me tell you this: someone in some future time will think of us-Sappho

  8. #23
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    By the way, thanks for posting his stuff. Someone might it useful. Never know.
    Rebel - KGC likes this.
    You may forget but let me tell you this: someone in some future time will think of us-Sappho

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hillbilly Prince View Post
    Well, I get upset But I am curious about your experience. I think your last post by Roy could be applied to many but not all.
    What led you to him? Did you experience the things he speaks about?
    One thing which I think is a plague on society is "perpetual adolescence". I heard Mark Levin use that phrase once and it describes perfectly so many people.
    What human doesn't experience what He talks about.

    Read through this and see if it doesn't hit home..
    What You Should Know About Being Upset

    by Roy Masters


    Cruel people get their power from the way you respond to their pressure. Your life is in danger from people, especially members of your own family, who chip away, harp, nag and aggravate the life out of you, until you feel like killing them or yourself.

    YOU CANNOT FIGHT THEM WITH RESENTMENT, because they use your resentment to drive you up the wall with fear and guilt, and terrify you into submission.Take heart. There is not a single problem that you cannot solve if you will learn to be patient.


    Stop the endless loop
    of tormenting thoughts!

    Get this stress-reducing exercise - recommended
    by psychologists and psychiatrists.


    Be Still & Know
    More Info


    You are the sum total of your experiences. Another way of saying this is that you are burdened by your past. Unless you learn to respond properly in the present, you build upon that past. And without self-control, that is the only future you have to look forward to. Respond wrongly to pressure just one time—and what upsets you, gets to you. And you will go on responding slavishly until you find the truth that makes you free.

    You are not alone in your dilemma. The wrong emotional reaction to various pressures is making everyone sick and depressed, and driving people into conflict with themselves. Trying to solve the pressure-caused conflicts, many turn to consciousness-reducing drink, tobacco and drugs, legal and illegal.

    Your reactions, becoming compulsive, are a subtle form of obedience. But emotional obedience is a form of slavery. Behind the relentless pressures that people apply (sometimes in the name of God and good), is a selfish motive that compels you to sin. Because of your reactions, you are thrown out of control and so you can’t live your own life. That is the reason why you feel sick and depressed.

    Most of your sexual, family and business problems arise directly from your failing to respond in a right way to what is wrong, and I might add, taking it out on your loved ones. Conflict with yourself now becomes conflict with others.Most of the things that are wrong with your life, your marriage, your health, your children, can be resolved by discovering how to control your emotions.

    Your emotional upsets have literally turned you upside-down. Even though you were technically correct in what you said or did, if you did it resentfully, your emotions backfired and confused you and as you began to doubt yourself, conflict, depression and fear grew. Emotion has destroyed your objectivity, and, failing to see clearly, you have made terrible errors of judgment. This, in turn, led to a fear of making decisions, so that perhaps you began to look too much to others for guidance, and you know how upsetting it can be if they happen to be wrong or take advantage of you.

    You must learn how to be patient with selfish and thoughtless people. You must learn to be poised and calm; otherwise, what is wrong in them shows up in you and makes you look like the bad guy. Everyone is so fascinated with what went wrong with you that they fail to see what they did wrong to you, and that becomes another upsetting, frustrating and scary experience.

    Cruel, unthinking people feed off the way you respond to their needling; they walk away self-righteous and satisfied, leaving you frustrated, confused, revengeful and depressed. They get their power from your reaction, while your resentment often makes you feel like the guilty one.

    "Successful" domineering, (unprincipled) people drain you and make your life wretched; they can always be sure of getting through to your subconscious mind through your reaction to their pressure. Dehumanizing pressure to achieve and to study is changing people into animals—animals out of control, in mortal conflict with others. OF COURSE WE ALL RESPOND TO PRESSURE—BUT THAT RESPONSE IS WHAT IS WRONG WITH US.

    Home and school pressures are alienating young people, creating monster rebel animals and delinquents, driving them to drugs, murder and suicide.

    Your emotions compel you to respond more and mores as an animal, less as a real person, and everything you think, feel, do or say will only bring on more trouble, conflict, fear and despair.You must learn to cope with pressures. If you can do that, if you can put the emphasis where it belongs—on standing for principles, finding patience and self-control—you can stave off disaster.

    The way we pressure and react to pressure is the cause of all suffering. Learn to be patient before it is too late. Upsetting you is the key to motivating you. Your emotional upset is the hidden reason behind all your conflict and suffering.

    Winning through intimidation is a common practice among spoiled and unscrupulous motivators. No doubt you have your own private dictator currently aggravating the life out of you.

    Through the shock of emotional upset, a compelling or morbid suggestion can be planted in your subconscious mind, and this is especially true with the emotion of resentment. If it doesn’t cause wild and senseless rebellion, you find yourself obliged to give in to ease the pain that the pressure of wrong resistance causes. Your life becomes a weary struggle against subliminal suggestions.

    Giving in to please tyrants who reward weakness is a common but unhealthy form of love, loyalty, and closeness between husband and wife, mother and child, and between churches and their believers. (It also happens to be the way to lose your identity.)It is hard to say "no" to pushy, irritating people. You tend to favor people who apply pressure—your boss, or your wife—and you spoil your kids. When the breaking point is reached, there comes a rebellion against work and study; debilitating disease and nervous breakdown take their deadly toll.

    Reaction to stress is your weakness—your Achilles’ heel. All heartless, cruel, power-hungry, unprincipled people inherit the know-how to make your emotions work for them, and they have no qualms about casting you aside after you are used and broken.

    The world is dominated by tyrants, teasers, and psychopaths. Some of them get you through cruelty, while other types manipulate you with a holier-than-thou, irritating "kindness." They might use both methods to confuse you, being mean to you one moment and being "kind" the next. Their bold, unprincipled manner upsets you, and because your resentment is the wrong way for a human being to deal with others, you feel guilty. Suddenly changing roles and becoming "nice," they can intensify your guilt feelings and make you doubt yourself. In that manner you are made to believe that they were right all along, and that you were wrong. And so you learn to go along with their wishes; you find yourself doing things you would never have done in your right mind, and that upsets you all over again. This vicious cycle, with a built-in upset factor, repeats itself endlessly, until you feel like killing them or yourself.

    Human beings were never designed to be externally motivated as animals, but because of a little understood ego-weakness, we are. That is the main reason why we all have paralyzing conflicts, anxieties and fears; that is the basis of all our problems, right there. Until you discover the secret of turning yourself on from what you realize is right deep down in your heart, you will always be an externalized zombie, compelled to act against your own better judgment, hurting people you love and doing things for which you are sorry later.

    Being upset is a conditioned reflex; it is an inferior way of reacting to pressure. It is why you feel so inferior, helpless and angry.What if you could learn to look injustice straight in the eye without flinching, patiently, calmly and with endless endurance? Surely you would not have the problems of repressing or expressing resentment. This, then, is the aim of the Foundation of Human Understanding—to show you the secret principle of control through patience.

    I know what you want. You want relief from your nervous tension and guilt feelings. You want solutions to your sex problems and family problems. You want to stop smoking, drinking and overeating; you want happiness. But you will never find what you are seeking until you discover the hidden cause of your trouble, and that cause is allowing people to upset you too easily. Surely emotional self-control is the key you are seeking. Your very life depends upon responding in a right way to what is wrong with people.

    Your main line of defense (and attack) is to stay calm and patient. Seeing you unmoved, the motivator’s tactics backfire on him; he becomes upset, loses his power and panics. Put up an impenetrable, invisible force shield of patience that lets the good come through and stops the ugly world from getting in and growing up inside to control your destiny.

    By practicing the self-control techniques contained within the Introductory Package available from the Foundation of Human Understanding, Roy Masters reveals one simple principle that will keep you safe under all conditions of stress and persecution. It’s simple. Anyone who is sincere can learn to do it in minutes. The secret lies in being consistent and adhering to the discipline of the mind as does an athlete to his goal.
    EVER WONDER WHERE YOUR THOUGHTS COME FROM?

    ​The Key...http://antidoteforall.com/

    For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:12

  10. #25
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    There is some good stuff in your post. Self-control allows for rational decisions. Of course, there is a good feeling to be had from retaliating immediately but it may prove the wrong course in the long run.
    Manipulative people often hang their selves given enough rope.
    Roy appears to be speaking of overt bullies in the above excerpt, but there are those who bully in passive ways.
    Sometimes you hear of people who are caught in family turmoil, lots of drama, and I wonder why not get away from those people. Get away from the negativity.
    Negative people are like a ball and chain.
    Get with people who encourage your dreams rather than finding reasons you will fail.
    Rebel - KGC likes this.
    You may forget but let me tell you this: someone in some future time will think of us-Sappho

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hillbilly Prince View Post
    There is some good stuff in your post. Self-control allows for rational decisions. Of course, there is a good feeling to be had from retaliating immediately but it may prove the wrong course in the long run.
    Manipulative people often hang their selves given enough rope.
    Roy appears to be speaking of overt bullies in the above excerpt, but there are those who bully in passive ways.
    Sometimes you hear of people who are caught in family turmoil, lots of drama, and I wonder why not get away from those people. Get away from the negativity.
    Negative people are like a ball and chain.
    Get with people who encourage your dreams rather than finding reasons you will fail.
    This will show you how to get OUT of your head,you will come to actually see your thoughts.

    Rebel - KGC likes this.
    EVER WONDER WHERE YOUR THOUGHTS COME FROM?

    ​The Key...http://antidoteforall.com/

    For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:12

  12. #27

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    "wt"; YOU do this, then...?
    Last edited by Rebel - KGC; Nov 16, 2018 at 07:43 PM.
    Hillbilly Prince likes this.

  13. #28
    Charter Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel - KGC View Post
    "wt; YOU do this, then...?
    Yes I have for years and I have come to see no other way out of your brains,imagination is a VERY dangerous place to live.
    EVER WONDER WHERE YOUR THOUGHTS COME FROM?

    ​The Key...http://antidoteforall.com/

    For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:12

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by worldtalker View Post
    Yes I have for years and I have come to see no other way out of your brains,imagination is a VERY dangerous place to live.
    You have to "imagination is a very dangerous place to live" please.
    You may forget but let me tell you this: someone in some future time will think of us-Sappho

  15. #30
    Charter Member
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    Chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hillbilly Prince View Post
    You have to "imagination is a very dangerous place to live" please.
    Can you explain better,please.
    Rebel - KGC likes this.
    EVER WONDER WHERE YOUR THOUGHTS COME FROM?

    ​The Key...http://antidoteforall.com/

    For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:12

 

 
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