Conspiracy Theories

[Michigan Badger]

Conspiracy Theories

I don’t know why but I find myself secretly considering some of the conspiracy theories. Maybe it's that "dark side" thing?

No, I never fully believed that Warren report (hypothetical speculation?).

There are some very alarming conspiracy theories even dating to more recent times. Are they all hoaxes?

What do you say?

 

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[Smee]

The Better Business Bureau has a neat little saying:

"If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is."

I think this is sound advice, even when it comes to Government reports about what "really" happened somewhere. What follows is only one of MANY examples.

A Quizzler: Who am I talking about?

- Only one president has been sworn in at a location other than the nation's capital.

- He became president upon the assassination of another president.

- He did not want the VP job, but was forced into it.

- He was took the oath of office in his home state, where BTW the sitting president was killed.

- The alleged (and probably the actual) shooter was murdered before he could be properly
interrogated or appear in court.

- This former VP also appointed the commission that examined the assassination.

I could give more details, but who am I talking about?

 

[handy]

ok what about the Conspiracy Theorie that the gas prices will go down

 

[Smee]

ok what about the Conspiracy Theorie that the gas prices will go down

Haven't heard that one . . . probably some kook.

The Better Business Bureau has a neat little saying:

"If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is."

 

[bakergeol]

You sly Badger You knew this would create some interesting posts.

My thoughts on this is a slogan used in another section of our hobby.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof"
or "If it sounds wacko then it probably is"

For example, implying the LBJ had a hand in the assassination of Kennedy would be an
extraordinary claim. It would require extraordinary evidence and proof.

The wacko theory that Bush actually created 9/11 to seize more power is another example.
Usually conspiracy theories involving our government(JFK and 9/11) put forward a
masterfully conceived and executed covert operation without leaving any evidence. It would require a Hitler mentality in the top levels of our government but hey this stuff is fun.The hundreds of government people involved in the operation will forever remain silent and leaks of information and "whistleblowers"simply do not exist. Yea -sure sounds like our government.

Well who do I consider conspiracy wackos ? Well people who have done their homework, know the facts and are well versed in all the evidence and issues- I have respect for. They do not have the extraordinary evidence and proof but they have my attention. However, they are a very small minority.

Many conspiracy buffs (I don't know what to call them?) have similar traits. They fail to provide any evidence or facts to back up their claims. Their conviction is not based on facts but their beliefs.They latch on to the superficial and claim this is as evidence. An example is the above LBJ details which are of course meaningless. They are not knowledgeable in their conspiracy and a simple google search will quickly reveal many of their beliefs to be incorrect. But don't let the facts get in the way of a good conspiracy thread. Their common claim is that "the real" facts are hidden from the public. You can not debate such individuals as any facts or information you present are not "the real" truth.

There you go Badger- You sly dog.

George

 

[bomber]

SSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHH,we never landed on the moon

 

[jeff of pa]

one thing you must remember the conspirators can always fall
back on the phrase "conspiracy nuts" this puts anyone with proof
of a conspiracy on the mental list, & Ignored by most.

An example would be UFO's
All it takes after somone sees one,
Is the Gov to say balloon, & most will believe them.
and if it continues, Make a fake one & Get caught Launching it.
this turns all the eye witnesses into Fruit Cakes.

There has been a Phrase around for Many years.
I'm going to change it slightly,
to Fit here.
But Remember....

Just because your Labeled Paranoid
Dosn't mean somone isn't out to get you.

and just because your labeled a conspiracy nut
Dosn't mean the conspiracy isn't there.

 

[ClonedSIM]

The Better Business Bureau has a neat little saying:

"If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is."

I think this is sound advice, even when it comes to Government reports about what "really" happened somewhere. What follows is only one of MANY examples.

A Quizzler: Who am I talking about?

- Only one president has been sworn in at a location other than the nation's capital.

- He became president upon the assassination of another president.

- He did not want the VP job, but was forced into it.

- He was took the oath of office in his home state, where BTW the sitting president was killed.

- The alleged (and probably the actual) shooter was murdered before he could be properly
interrogated or appear in court.

- This former VP also appointed the commission that examined the assassination.

I could give more details, but who am I talking about?

The old Lincoln/Kennedy coincidences, eh? Those are actually very interesting.

 

[Smee]

LBJ

 

[bakergeol]

Badger
[/quote]

I find myself wondering what constitutes extraordinary proof?"

And the saying "If it sounds wacko then it probably is" sounds ultra subjective to me.

I mean, who determines what is or is not---wacko or extraordinary proof?"

Maybe we’re looking at a thing that can never be settled apart from a full governmental confession?
[/quote]

Extraordinary proof would be evidence, documents, that would convict someone in a court of law.
The burden of proof would of course be on the "nuts" to prove their conspiracy. To prove we did not land on the moon one would have to disprove all of the NASA data. All of those moon rocks are fake. If a "nut' challenged the government in a court of law that the landings were fake, the overwhelming evidence would indeed prove that the guy's thinking is wacko.

Believe me if a conspirator did have the real goods on the government- he would not be ignored. There are thousands of journalists out there who daily dream of being awarded the Pulitzer Prize for uncovering government mischief.

You are right in that the term "if it sounds wacko that it probably is" is subjective. A conspiracy nut may believe that crop circles are caused by aliens and this is not a wacko idea, however, the rest of the population without extraordinary proof does think that this is a wacko idea. Sort of reminds me of ads that say "Buy this lotion and your pensis will grow 2 inches". A lot of people will believe this ad- certainly does not sound wacko to them and purchase the lotion. However, the rest of the thundering herd has a good chuckle and moves along.

[/quote]

Let's say President Bush came out with a full confession in regard to 911. Immediately the word comes out that the President has been admitted to the hospital for testing. A few weeks later the sad news of his passing away due to a brain tumor is delivered to the press.

Really now, if we had someone (anyone) or any group of persons other than the entire government step forward and make a statement of confession in regard to some major issue—who would believe that person or group? Only a small handful of "nuts"—that’s who.

[/quote]

Believe me if Bush made a 9/11 confession the wheels of government would stop. One thousand special prosecutors would be appointed. His documents, correspondence, and his life would be closely examined by the Badger Commission - a commission appointed to unravel the truth.

You see the times the government has blundered and committed outrageous acts- Guess what? You will eventually see it on PBS. The Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment-The U.S. government's 40-year experiment on black men with syphilis would be a typical example.

And yes paranoids do have enemies. Probably the majority of them are his neighbors who are tired of him barking at the moon every night.

Regarding your last statement in that we will never know the truth unless the government confesses. Does this mean that if the government is completely innocent and never confesses that the matter will never be settled?

George

 

[rmptr]

It seems the question of extraordinary proof is falling the wrong way...

I was NOT trained by the USMC, but I know what a Carcano is, and is not capable of in the specific timeframe.

Yet I DO NOT KNOW!

I am just so curious about how some folks can have so much faith in a government that WILL NOT RELEASE the files in their entirety.

UFO's? I dunno... I've never seen one, myself. But I've never met the Queen, either.

Dowsing? Well, I read Henry Gross' s book. It's impressive. Yet I can't do it.

Pearl Harbor... Did the president know in advance? Why did the best of the new line ships happen to be off on maneuvers when the surprise attack occurred?

Hakkim's Razor... When confronted with multiple scenarios, the most obvious usually fits the bill.

It would require extraordinary proof for me to believe otherwise.

Trust government?

I've counted upon them for one thing. To defend our borders.
They have failed.

Best,
Recovers Many Pull Tab Relics

 

[rockhound]

Area 51 doesn't exist (according to the official US govt testimony)
UFO's don't exist (title 14 section1211 of the Code of Federal Regulations- Implemented July 16,1969, It is illegal to posess, operate or touch any vehicle of Exteresstrial origin)
Free Energy Machines don't exist ( any machine that is patented that posess overunity will become property of the US military, under the heading of National Security)
What Conspiracy- Who's Hiding Anything?

 

[rmptr]

I do believe our friends in KSA are a quite active conspiring group.
It almost seems as though it's their nature to do so.

Try this link for oil reserve info in KSA...

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/3923#more

rmptr

 

[Zephyr]

Area 51 is just a decoy.
The real UFO storage/research base is located way up in northern Canada, near the end of the MacKenzie mtn chain. (Most UFO watchers would just die* if they had to hike 2 days, let alone a month in the wilderness, just to reach it.)
Oh, and you won't find the base on satellite images of the area. "They" make sure of that....


* From lack of good food, air conditioning, beer, having to walk, mosquitoes the size of moose, that sort of thing....

 

[Montana Jim]

I believe in some conspiracies... or maybe I don't. 8)

 

[rmptr]

I'm stuck on the extraordinary proof thingy...

I have learned suspicion of just about anything presented by government.

Yet only a few commonly available reasons quickly come to mind.

..."I am not a crook..."

..."Read my lips..."

..."I did not have sex with that woman..."


If someone were to actually believe what government tells them, without question, well....

 

[bakergeol]

Well I guess I am in the minority here at TN. The majority of the responders here are conspiracy "buffs".

However, people here are not discussing the first part of my argument

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof "

Extraordinary claims are not

..."I am not a crook..."

..."I did not have sex with that woman"

After it is not extraordinary or even a surprise that politicians will lie, cheat and steal just
like average low lives.

Of course our government lies. After a U2 spy plane was shot down over Russia, Eisenhower came out and said it was a weather reconnaissance flight,. He was caught in his lie when Khrushchev revealed the U2 pilot(Powers) to the world.

So our government lies. Does this mean that mutant killer radioactive turtles exist? crop circles are from aliens? Our president decides to murder 3000 innocent lives to gain more power? These are without a doubt extraordinary claims which do require extraordinary proof.

If one believes that the killer radioactive turtle , crop circle and the Bush/911 conspiracy theories are NOT extraordinary claims - Well it is either time to seek professional help, up your meds or take a vacation away from your survival bunker.

George

 

[jeff of pa]

killer radioactive turtle & crop circles are Unbelievable I'll admit that.

 

[MD Dog]

History is where you'll find proof of any conspiracy. And the history of just about every government that has ever existed is riddled with them. From Nero to Hitler to Kennedy, LBJ, Nixon, Bush 1,Clinton and Monica, Maybe Bush 2. Militaries as well as regular Political interests are the ones to blame, heck they even manufacture some of the conspiracy theories themeselves for disinformation purposes. But just because you think everyone is out to get you, doesn't mean they aren't.

 

[rmptr]

Ok Baker, I will reply DIRECTLY to you so there is no confusion as to what I may be addressing...

quote author=bakergeol
Well I guess I am in the minority here at TN. The majority of the responders here are conspiracy "buffs".

Baker, I'd hazard a guess you are NOT in the minority here at Tnet.
You are perhaps one of few OUTSPOKEN members choosing to participate in the thread.
(Part of the Silent Majority)

Baker>>>
However, people here are not discussing the first part of my argument
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof "

I do NOT consider it to be an extraordinary claim when someone declares government may have not disclosed the truth of a matter... or 'mispoke'.

I strongly suspect WE are not fully informed of what REALLY goes on around us for the basic reason of those gubment minions, and those who direct them, implementing even more control over our daily lives.

Simple example? Why would a shiny new radio equipped interceptor, piloted by one of our college degreed academy graduated finest, be set aside from crime fightin' citizen protecting duty to give a child a citation to appear before a clerk of the superior court to answer charges of misdemeanor infraction behavior by riding a bicycle in a two horse town?
Another example?
Enforcement $'s spent on infractions when a reputed 12 million invaders have crossed our border??

I'll tell you my feeling!
It's done to exhibit control, to forcefully demand respect for authority, and instill that within a child.

To quote you further, Baker...
After it is not extraordinary or even a surprise that politicians will lie, cheat and steal just
like average low lives.
Of course our government lies.

Baker, I do NOT accept that.
No way, no how.
To be in public service is a position of honor.
Public servants should all be treated with a great deal of respect, not only because they must be held to the highest of standards, but also because their chosen vocation makes demands that many of us shall never face.

Baker>>>
After a U2 spy plane was shot down over Russia, Eisenhower came out and said.....

Yah, Ike wasn't much of a president. Neither was Grant.
Ike could have very well said, "I have no comment at this time."
Returning war heroes have rarely done well in elected office.
To use an example from the other side of the pond, the performance of Winston Churchill during WWII was nothing less than inspirational. He pulled an astounding accomplishment out of his hat.
Prior to WWII, his performance was lackluster, and he failed in politics after the war.

Baker>>>
So our government lies.

IMO, Baker, that is not worthy of a "So."
A liar should be run out of town on a rail.
Tar n' feather him!
Put an end to this behavior.

Baker>>>
Does this mean that mutant killer radioactive turtles exist? crop circles are from aliens?

And this is a textbook example of discrediting an opponent in discussion...
Employing a ludicrous accusation of lunacy.

Baker, even if you feel yourself to be in the minority at the moment, your opinion is very welcome.
Stand up straight, and proud.
Be an Army of One!
Back up your position with unequivocal facts and figures, as opposed to trying for the cheap shot to discredit.
In such fashion, your position may become accepted as your opinion is welcome.

Best,
Recovers Many Pull Tab Relics