If you have any investments

[someotherdude]

I have spent the better part of yesterday watching and listening to the pundits and so called experts talking about the Financial Markets. But this is my take. I personally have been working hard to consolidate and liquefy all my shares and holdings. I now am holding only Vacant real estate, Gold, and I'm still holding shares and real capitol in the money Markets. This might be viewed by some as a knee jerk reaction or a running scared attitude. But I really think it is more of a solid financial strategy for right now due to the market volatility's. I'm also making the extraordinary move today to have actual holdings; I.E: trading my shares for real gold and Money in hand. I'm by no means as smart as the fella all over TV with the degrees, but I'm definitely more cautious. As i write this I'm seeing some chick on GMA telling everyone that the worst thing they can do is to liquify, In my opinion there's way too many such people reading from the same script, I don't trust them. Now's the time to play it safe for your own best interests.

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI Some: How about junior Gold mining co's that have excellent properties being proven out, both in Canada and Mexico?

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. Are you holding US Dollars or other types of currency, say CA or Euro.?

 

[someotherdude]

I'm holding the Euro and the Chinese yuan and Idian rupee

Gold I'm holding ingots and coinage from U.S., China, Australia, Canada

 

[rmptr]

OUCH!

That hurts, SOD...

Betting against the home team?

I suppose if the goal is to win the series, it would be foolish to stick with any particular team.

Kinda like the multi-national corps...

 

[someotherdude]

I'm not betting against the home team rmptr, The market is gonna do what ever it's gonna do, I'm just playing in a foreign league.

 

[Lasivian]

What investments you're in should be determined by your age.

If you're under 35-40 the stock market is still your best bet because you'll be looking for long-term returns.

Shorter safe investments are CDs and the like that are better if you're older and closer to retirement.

As for gold I don't see it going over 1000$ per ounce in the future, no matter how bad things get. The fact that it hit 1K then plummeted comes from a major amount of automated sell orders that kicked in at that price. You can bet they didn't all get filled. In my opinion that means that gold can only go downfrom it's current level.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[someotherdude]

I beg to differ on your assessment of gold futures Lasavian. Should things go terribly wrong and we actually do see a collapse like the last time or actually worse this time Gold will be through the roof. It is one of the only staples out there where by it will not only hold but increase its' value over time, since it's likely to be the standard for any future currencies. So many people and businesses will be hurt by a U.S.D. collapse that no trust in any form of U.S.D. will exist for future generations. In the 30s the American Dollar was what most of the world held as a base currency, since it had the highest value at the time. Thus even when the U.S. government screwed up by trying to prop up G.B. and there withdrawal from the Gold standard, most people world wide had no other back up than the good old U.S.D. However now days the Euro and soon to be the Chinese Yuan are the bearers of the banner, a U.S.D. collapse will send the Euro skyrocketting, propelling them into a situation of Global dominance the likes of which hasn't been seen since the Roman empire. The only Immune economy will be that of the Chinese, due to their growth and current dominance of the labor market, their Yuan will compete albeit poorly as the second most valuable currency. So tell me do you have any Euros or Yuan ? Think it will be a while before you might see some ? Better have some gold or Vacant land that can be traded for cash or gold.

 

[Lasivian]

I beg to differ on your assessment of gold futures Lasavian. Should things go terribly wrong and we actually do see a collapse like the last time or actually worse this time Gold will be through the roof. It is one of the only staples out there where by it will not only hold but increase its' value over time, since it's likely to be the standard for any future currencies. So many people and businesses will be hurt by a U.S.D. collapse that no trust in any form of U.S.D. will exist for future generations. In the 30s the American Dollar was what most of the world held as a base currency, since it had the highest value at the time. Thus even when the U.S. government screwed up by trying to prop up G.B. and there withdrawal from the Gold standard, most people world wide had no other back up than the good old U.S.D. However now days the Euro and soon to be the Chinese Yuan are the bearers of the banner, a U.S.D. collapse will send the Euro skyrocketting, propelling them into a situation of Global dominance the likes of which hasn't been seen since the Roman empire. The only Immune economy will be that of the Chinese, due to their growth and current dominance of the labor market, their Yuan will compete albeit poorly as the second most valuable currency. So tell me do you have any Euros or Yuan ? Think it will be a while before you might see some ? Better have some gold or Vacant land that can be traded for cash or gold.

Yes, but that's absolute worst-case thinking, my stepfather said the same thing and invested heavily in gold in the 90's. He made almost no profit from his investments since he had to sell out to fund his retirement and the price had hardly budged. He's barely scraping by. Investing in gold heavily now and seeing the price fall to 600$ an ounce if the economy holds steady or turns around would be even worse.

I recommend only putting maybe 10% of your portfolio into gold.

 

[GPURS]

For the most part, I agree with lasivian. If you had invested in one ounce of gold 30 years ago, you would have made $75(if you sell it now). And, if the time comes where we are trading meager amounts of gold or land for food or services, watch out! You are describing a scenario in which, if someone were to find out you had a little gold, you would probably get a bump on the head(at least) and wake up with no gold. If people wanted your gold or property, they would simply take it from you. If you think gold is the answer, you better have a buttload of it so that you can pay a bunch of people to protect you and your property. Gpurs...

 

[rmptr]

Many years ago, when things were different, I bought firearms as investment.
Best I ever did was a very small return or break even when I needed to sell them.

I once had a pile of silver ingots. Broke even on them.

Then I figgered quality tools would always be good investment.
They are older now, and can't sell 'em!

If I'd been one to invest in stock market I'm sure I would have lost my shirt.

Some of us are just stuck with our nose at the grindstone.

I'm lookin' for the grindstone!

Best

 

[Lasivian]

If I'd been one to invest in stock market I'm sure I would have lost my shirt.

The stock market is a long-term investment.

If you put your money into something like a total market fund, or the S&P 500 you're in it for the long haul not the short term. And you're going to ride out the market rollercoasters.

What happens is you see certain companies, or certain sectors of the market falling, but the market as a whole remains strong. Just look at the general numbers for the NYSE and the Dow and they keep going up.

As an example, Warren Buffet has said he uses the "APR" return on the stock market as his "mark to beat" in investing, and his company Berkshire Hathaway is one of the few to consistently beat the market's return. (it's also around 100,000$ per share for it's stock which has never split)


If you are *TRULY* worried about the world falling apart, this is my recommendation.

Concentrate on paying off your property, this is a safe investment in any climate, if you own a place to live free and clear that's a major bonus in hard times.

Put about 2000$ into gold in small amounts, like 1/8th or 1/16th ounce coins, whatever the smallest ones you can get are. This would make for easier small transactions rather than trying to sell off a a whole ounce at once or trade it. I wouldn't trust flakes or nuggets since you can't reliable prove their value to someone not familiar with gold when trying to barter. (*IF* you see gold go over 1200$ per ounce increase this to 4-5000$. That would be my "break point" that shows the economy is getting alot more unstable.)

Put about 1000$ into low-quality handguns. Ones that fire, but aren't incredibly reliable, but in a "katrina-type" situation will look pretty damn nice to someone in exchange for food, etc. And another 500$ into moderate quality ammunition.

3500$ creates a limit, since if things do not get terrible you will most likely lose that investment so you shouldn't go overboard.


Good luck.

 

[rmptr]

I'm so pleased to have a knowledgeable fellow amongst us!

Thanks for the advice Lasivian!

"The stock market is a long-term investment."
..Yes, I guess so... seems regulators are putting a crimp in short selling, from what I read in the news.

"If you put your money"
? What money?
Any I see goes to houserent, oil companies, the grocer, and utilities! In that order.

"Just look at the general numbers for the NYSE and the Dow and they keep going up."
Lasivian, I disagree with that statement.

The market has fallen considerably. I expect it to fall below 10seven very soon.
Any periodic bull runs that may be seen periodically, IMO, are no more than insiders clearing out their portfolios in a manipulated market. And the brokers on the floor are loving it! ...drawing a sale commission on each one of those trades.

Perhaps you are doing well with aspects of the market I've never considered.
GM and Ford are almost a joke, if it were not so sad.
They are symbolic of our once great manufacturing capacity. The strength of our country.

Yet I'm SURE you are more knowledgeable than myself.
What is your take on Bear-Sterns? Or citi? wachovia?
What would be your position on the plight of the airlines?
May I ask, could you interpret the VIX for us? I never quite understood...
Would you give us your take on the consequences of the debacle with fannie mae and freddie mac?

"As an example, Warren Buffet has said..."
Has not Warren Buffet come out and said he would NOT be able to generate the level of profit he has in the past, and the market would be troubled for quite some time?
I would agree, the Wizard of Omaha is indeed very wise, yet not brutal, as bill gates is...

"If you are *TRULY* worried about the world falling apart, this is my recommendation."
I'm not worried. I'm very concerned for ALL of us. The elderly on fixed incomes in the short run, and our young people in the long run.

"Concentrate on paying off your property, this is a safe investment in any climate, if you own a place to live free and clear that's a major bonus in hard times."
Huh? WHAT property? I'm a tenant.
FREE and CLEAR Whew!
(I'll calm myself down...)
SAFE INVESTMENT?
(Didn't work!!! ...maybe I better take a prozac!)

My friend Lasivian. Are you NOT aware of a 'housing bubble' which exists, not only in our country, but in Britain, Spain, and some other countries of consequence? The current numbers of foreclosures are staggering.
I have been advised by others that home values have plummeted perhaps 30% in many places.
Do you have different information you could present here, to the group?

As a small exercise, as you go about your affairs, would you tally the number of vacant storefronts in your town?
I don't mind declaring the number is noticeably growing, in my town.

In part, a consequence of this degradation, coupled with rising costs of conducting their own business, many municipalities shall need to raise taxes to remain solvent and avoid bankruptcy as a few of our large cities already have.

At this point, may I point out that NO ONE is free and clear.
No one owns their land in fee simple.
Mandatory tax, rent to STATE, on many homes today, is MORE than what I paid for a house payment, many years ago.

Surely you are aware of many people simply dropping off keys to the home at the bank, if they even do that...

"Put about 2000$ into gold..."
...Many of us would indeed, enjoy that luxury...

"Put about 1000$ into low-quality handguns."
My friend, I'm considering I should have a yardsale and sell off some things I no longer use much and saving the money towards purchase of a Ruger 10-22 rifle and a box of shells.

You are obviously a wiser fellow than myself.
I/we shall look forward to your advice in response.

...and I say 'we' because I do not feel as though I'm the Lone Ranger!

Thank you for wishing me god luck!
I think I'll need it.

Best,
rmptr

 

[Lasivian]

"As an example, Warren Buffet has said..."
Has not Warren Buffet come out and said he would NOT be able to generate the level of profit he has in the past, and the market would be troubled for quite some time?
I would agree, the Wizard of Omaha is indeed very wise, yet not brutal, as bill gates is...

My friend Lasivian. Are you NOT aware of a 'housing bubble' which exists, not only in our country, but in Britain, Spain, and some other countries of consequence? The current numbers of foreclosures are staggering.
I have been advised by others that home values have plummeted perhaps 30% in many places.
Do you have different information you could present here, to the group?

#1 you're looking at the stock market in the short term, which is less than 20 years. When I say "long term" I mean 20-30 years. The market has always produced the best returns of any investment over extended periods.

This graph http://www.crestmontresearch.com/content/Matrix Options.htm shows general average market returns by year. You'll note that the vast majority of years provided good returns.

But don't just trust me, ask any retirement planner and he'll point you towards the market if you're younger than 50.

#2 Value of your home only applies to resale, so long as it's worth more than was originally paid for it (as most still are now) it's worth keeping if you can afford to keep it.

 

[rmptr]

Thanks so much for the wonderful reply, Lasivian.

You are correct. With my absolute unfamiliarity of the stock market, and high finance, I only look at a recent glimpse of what's going on... and I'm in OVERLOAD!
Whew!

OK, I'll look back at return over 20 years, as you suggest.

Perhaps I should have consulted a retirement planner.
My own logic is certainly flawed!
Oops! Missed that cut-off point.

By golly you are absolutely correct about value of a home being important to resale.
In my course of working for developers, builders, and agents, I have been saying to distraught homeowners who are the end client, that the time to buy a home is when you need to upgrade, or relocate for work.
Irregardless of other factors.

Guess I shoulda' been a politician as I've learned to do it with a smile, while handing them the work order to sign off, for the work I've completed on their behalf.

All told, a great reply...
I can see you're a sporting fellow!
Hope you'll be within range as I reload for another volley!
Problem is, there's far too many buttons and switches here that confuse me.


Best,
rmptr

 

[rmptr]

I did it!

I went over to look at the stocks I watch for entertainment, Lasivian...
(couldn't afford to actually BUY anything, even now.)

By golly do NOT take financial advice from me!

I won't post which stocks they are, but % change in the 10 year period on google news...

+33, -5, -79, -88, -36, -35, -51, -83, -63, -83 and all those are percentage of change from 10yrs ago.

Six banks, four industrials.
Boeing is the only one up... 33%.
The other Great Pacific Northwest company is down 83%.

LoL Don't EVER take financial advice from me!

 

[nana40hubby]

I went to my financial advisor the other day and he advised me to pull all of my money out and buy lottery tickets... is this sound finacial advice

 

[Lasivian]

Perhaps this post should be moved the the rubber room. :P

 

[wet willy]

I wouldn't go near no stocks right now. Least that feller with the gold ain't loosen no money I seen on tv there's alot of people who are loosin all there investment money at that bank the federal government closed. I'm 63 and looks like all I'll have is my SS checks to rely on. Gonna have to keep workin till I die.