Some more button finds, Ones a rare one....

[Old California]

Met up with some friends this past Thursday at an adobe site, Always a pleasure teaming up with El and good to finally met Val and his son Jayson and a joy seeing Rick again, Tom from Salinas couldn't make it so maybe next time around he'll drop by, Everyone was asking for you Tom. Plus, Everyone made some good finds and the day was a perfect day for detecting.

Elbert found the location a few years ago, With recent research material surfacing we found some areas that are now giving up a few more finds. The area has recently produced many old buttons, Buttons used as trade with the Indians, Buttons used on clothing and Coins modified and used as buttons.

In comparison, Next to an old coin or even equal to a coin an old button to most relic hunters especially a rare button would rank up there on the list. Two particular rare California buttons would be the Phoenix button and an even more rare button is the New York Lancers (NYL) button, This mistaken (NYL) button identity has not been corrected and is really the New York Legion button.

The New York Legion button is from one of the 700-1000 men who policed our California state during the late 1840's, They arrived here from New York and in a sense would be our first police.

I don't know too much about them only from what I have read and a friend (Rick) who did make this weeks hunt has found two of them before, He quickly recognized the button I found was indeed a NYL Coat button.

I'll post a few pictures, And a group shot of all the buttons I have pulled out from here in these recent hunts.

Thanks for looking and best wishes to all,
Paul (Ca)

 

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[aa battery]

Fantastic finds .......aa

 

[pegleglooker]

Hey gang,
OldCal, you amaze me ... For someone who can find materials from the early 1800's that is truly amazing !!!!! I wish I could be with you guys on one of these hunts.. Maybe some day.... CONGRATS !!!! Oh, and PLEASE keep it coming...

PLL

 

[Tom_in_CA]

The east coast guys may find this "ho-hum", but for out in CA, touching the early to mid 1800s (pre-gold-rush, pre-state-hood years) is awesome! Simply not much going on here in CA prior to state-hood, especially if you're talking pre 1830s, then there wasn't much going on outside the missions and presidios! Ie.: the golden age of ranchos and land-grants, etc... didn't start until the early 1830s.

Anyhow, I love the tamping rod holder. And you know what the tubular copper snippet is, don't you? That's a roller tube thing for the bit in a horse's mouth. Those earlier crude kinds are from the mission era. I've never found those at a site that dates to later than .... say .... the 1830s. Not sure why, as they are still, even to this day on the bits/bar that goes through the horse's mouth. Of course, the later ones are machine made (post industrial revolution), so even if they did come off the bit, they'd look differently than the type you found. My experience with those copper tube things is, that wherever you find those, reales can be in the same vicinity. Heck, they even give a heart-stopping penny/quarter signal! :P

Good to hear from you Paul! Sorry I couldn't meet up with you guys that day. The only detecting for me was the beach this last few days. There was a NW swell that came through @ the middle of last week, and there is still some subtle sand movement going on, as mother nature "re-adjusts". Got a fatty indian, a barber dime, merc, some wheats, a few gold rings, lots of clad, etc....

 

[Old California]

Thanks Battery, Pegleg and Tom,

Battery, I was thinking the other day we should hold a barbeque at Roeding park for all the locals. I know allot would show up just to meet others from the area and maybe get a chance to squeeze out an old silver or two from the park, We used to meet there weekly about 5-6 years ago. Maybe one of these days

Peg, Several others here in Ca. tap into these older areas especially in the Bay area. Tom hits allot of these older sites and so do a few other friends, I've sort of backed away from metal detecting and seldom get out now but when I do prefer detecting old settlements. Of course, I still do search for gold jewelry near my home, One of these days before I retire from metal detecting we'll get out and try our luck

Tom, Thanks so much for pointing out what the tubular copper snippet is, I was wondering what they were used for and have found several of these before from your area.

I tell you we all missed you last week when El and I heard you couldn't make it and Rick, Val and Jayson were bummed as well. Maybe next time. In fact, I may attend church services in your area soon so who knows maybe I'll see you then.

Plus, Congrats on the gold jewelry, fatty Indian and barber you recently recovered from the NW swell. I know you work hard doing these type of hunts and reading your past post and of others Gold Jewelry just doesn't surface as often as one would anticipate.

Thanks again,
Paul (Ca)

 

[aa battery]

Thanks Battery, Pegleg and Tom,

Battery, I was thinking the other day we should hold a barbeque at Roeding park for all the locals. I know allot would show up just to meet others from the area and maybe get a chance to squeeze out an old silver or two from the park, We used to meet there weekly about 5-6 years ago. Maybe one of these days

Peg, Several others here in Ca. tap into these older areas especially in the Bay area. Tom hits allot of these older sites and so do a few other friends, I've sort of backed away from metal detecting and seldom get out now but when I do prefer detecting old settlements. Of course, I still do search for gold jewelry near my home, One of these days before I retire from metal detecting we'll get out and try our luck

Tom, Thanks so much for pointing out what the tubular copper snippet is, I was wondering what they were used for and have found several of these before from your area.

I tell you we all missed you last week when El and I heard you couldn't make it and Rick, Val and Jayson were bummed as well. Maybe next time. In fact, I may attend church services in your area soon so who knows maybe I'll see you then.

Plus, Congrats on the gold jewelry, fatty Indian and barber you recently recovered from the NW swell. I know you work hard doing these type of hunts and reading your past post and of others Gold Jewelry just doesn't surface as often as one would anticipate.

Thanks again,
Paul (Ca)

Sounds good to mee.....aa

 

[Old California]

Hi Treasure Tales,

They vary in size just like a regular fired Caliber bullet, The smaller Caliber size balls generally are from pistol and the larger from Musket's. I have a book somewhere packed away giving various sizes and different type of pistol's and muskets arms, And many balls get smashed/flattened on impact after being fired.

Below is a picture of about 80-100 pistol and musket balls and some remains of powder flask parts, Many of the pistol/musket balls are smashed or odd shaped due to impact and some are fresh drops or perfectly round even after being fired.

These pistol and musket balls came from the oldest White man settlement in the San Joaquin valley floor between Stockton and Los Angeles, A site I happed to located from research and is estimated 700-1000 Indians attacked this settlement in 1850 and killed all but two men who escaped by river. True story and those that live near here know of this amazing massacre, The site is well hidden and only a few know the location and these are friends I took with permission from the property owner.

A few coins did surface with the oldest an 1792 French coin, Two early 1830-40's seated dimes, 1835 Bust 1/2 dime, 1816 reale and an 1850 franc coin. My friend Denny found the 1816 reale and 1850 franc coin, Mark found the two seated 1840's dimes and I recovered the 1792 French coin and 1835 bust 1/2 dime.

Someday I'll share a story of this settlement, I think everyone will find it very interesting.

Before I forget, I always look at my friends finds at the end of each hunt because sometimes they will toss away an old relic not knowing what it is. I've found powder flask parts and other interesting relics in the dump bucket discarded as trash, So I make it a point to study each find made by those that detect with me.

HH, Paul

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Treasure Tails: I always thought that "pistol balls" and "musket balls" were interchangeable terms for the same item.

Paul: Do you know what the item on the upper right of your last picture is? That's a heel plate, isn't it?

 

[Old California]

Hi Tom and Treasure tales,

Tom, You are right that is a heel plate which are found in older areas including Civil war battle fields. I've found two in my career and some others from Ca have found them as well, Funny thing both and these and of others are usually broken near the same area on the heel plate.

Treasure tales, Before going to bed last night I recognized my error and actually three survived the massacre not two. Two escaped down the river and the third wounded and left for dead, The others massacred and John Wood (group leader) skinned alive.

Woodsville was the first of many things, First White man settlement in San Joaquin valley between Stockton and Los Angeles, first post office, first jail, first county seat and first county court house (cabin). Also, This particular area travel route was used by the Indians and pioneers including Kit Carson and John Fremont.

I have allot of different sources from books of my area explaining the starting of the settlement and massacre. I found a link a few minutes ago and will post it below, I'll try and post more on this later (another post) with more information and other old settlements nearby that are interesting as well.

I do have permission from the property owners in this area to enter these old ghost towns that no longer show any signs they were there.

Bear with me and I'll post more on this in the future and with allot of pictures,

http://www.fresnobee.com/885/story/488033.html

 

[SoCalNYGGirl]

I'm a so cal button collector..New to this site. Exactly the topic I'm looking for! Id love to share

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I'm a so cal button collector..New to this site. Exactly the topic I'm looking for! Id love to share

What kind of buttons do you have to share with, or need ID on ?

If they're 1850s/1860s or later, you'll find the best experts on those are the hunters from the deep south (the C.W. hunters states). Those guys have become experts on all buttons of that era to the present.

And if they're earlier buttons (like Paul's buttons to start this post), some of the colonial east coast guys are good on those ID's and dating them. So too are some British hunters good on their button-dating and ID's.

Have you found older buttons here in CA ? What's the age range of the sites you're hunting where you're at ?