F70 and nails.

[Leco]

First I just want to say that the F70 is treating me very well. I've had it about a month and my keeper grade finds are fast approaching in number what I found in two years with the Garrett 250. So I can't complain much. Nails are driving me crazy though. The majority of my nickel signals turn out to be nails, all types of nails, roofing nails, finishing nails, big friggin nails, rusty nails, square nails, new nails, bent nails, nails nails and nails. I always double check and that nickel signal doesn't return. What gives? I ground balance it correctly. It isn't EMI, not always, it happens in urban areas as well out in the middle of the boonies where there isn't a power line for a mile or two. It is kind of annoying, but on the plus side I have largely removed the threat of tetanus from my front yard.

 

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[WhatTheBeep]

Hmm, I've had mine about 3 weeks but haven't had that problem with nails--they've all shown up in the iron range for me. That said, though, I've heard of them occasionally showing up in higher ranges for others but higher than the Nickel range when they were pretty deep or very rusty if I remember correctly. What coil are you using? I only have the 11" DD.

Have you tried resetting your machine? Might be worth a try if not.

Good luck! These F70s are great machines!

 

[Pmaverick]

Hi - I'm the new user of F70 but spent aleready most of my daytime and nigh time with it as i found this machine a fantastic one. I can compare only to whites mx5 and garrets 350 and at pro. none of them gave me that depth (i have a stock 10" concentric coil with my f70) Acording to the nails - i got some nails hiting high VDI but only if they're big enough that they "colorfull echo" is able to break through the discrimination. I have it set with the disc. constantly between 15 and 20. Reseting the machine may be helpfull. And first of all - what's Your battery life? Low voltage can cause many errors including wrong identification i believe.

 

[Leco]

I have not tried resetting it yet, i will do that. I use the 10 inch coil and its pretty impressive, i cant imagine how good the 11 inch is. I've read good things about it. Battery life is fine, it happens when a brand new set is in. Sometimes i wonder if its the sensitivity. Something i've noticed as i've used it more is I can get a nice, solid two repeatable signal, small swings over the top and its singing. However when i pinpoint the target will be a whole coils length from where i was getting the repeatable tones. I run it at sixty.

 

[IBdiggin]

Leco,---------- I also run the 10" elliptical coil. Try running a -1 or -2 or -3 threshold if necessary where it is super trashy. If that doesn't help try backing sensitivity down 5 points at a time in addition to threshold. These signals may be false signals since you didn't specify weather or not you were running nickels in 3H or 4H tones. I usually run in DP tones so my nickels come in mid tones but nail rust will false to high tones. Good coin signals will not be jumpy like high false tones unless super corroded or a multi denominational spill. I usually never discriminate more than about 4. By hearing the iron, when I get bombarded with high tones , I immediately suspect where a majority of them are originating. I realize not many people other than Digger27 or myself are willing to put up with that kind of a hunt but while learning this incredible detector the more you can hear the sooner you will realize the good from the bad.------Hope this helps---------IB

 

[Leco]

Leco,---------- I also run the 10" elliptical coil. Try running a -1 or -2 or -3 threshold if necessary where it is super trashy. If that doesn't help try backing sensitivity down 5 points at a time in addition to threshold. These signals may be false signals since you didn't specify weather or not you were running nickels in 3H or 4H tones. I usually run in DP tones so my nickels come in mid tones but nail rust will false to high tones. Good coin signals will not be jumpy like high false tones unless super corroded or a multi denominational spill. I usually never discriminate more than about 4. By hearing the iron, when I get bombarded with high tones , I immediately suspect where a majority of them are originating. I realize not many people other than Digger27 or myself are willing to put up with that kind of a hunt but while learning this incredible detector the more you can hear the sooner you will realize the good from the bad.------Hope this helps---------IB

In the most trashy of areas I run a -3 threshold. I didnt mention tones, I just haven't figured out what to use. The first few hunts i ran two tones then i ran 3h and 4h for a few weeks and for the last week i've been using delta pitch. So tone setting makes a difference? I guess it would since the VDI isnt so accurate. You are correct though, its just going to take time.

 

[Pmaverick]

In the most trashy of areas I run a -3 threshold. I didnt mention tones, I just haven't figured out what to use. The first few hunts i ran two tones then i ran 3h and 4h for a few weeks and for the last week i've been using delta pitch. So tone setting makes a difference? I guess it would since the VDI isnt so accurate. You are correct though, its just going to take time.

So does it mean the 2f is sort of wrong idea to hunt with? I hunt mostly on trashy areas. I noticed that false hjigh signals are appearing few inches aside to the iron and nothing is there...i figured it out and just for confirmation i dug few - all appeared to be iron so another lesson learnt
I really like it, just worried that there is no manual ground balance - hope the ground grab wont start cheating on me
One more question - is F70 rain resistant? Is it whatherproof or something like this? yesterday it started slightly raining and i decided to pack it up and not risk the possible issues...but relating to some information it is supposed to be whatherproof in terms of light rain...is it? I ordered the covers for electronic box and batt compartment but shiping to Poland will take weeks im affraid

 

[steve1357]

One more question - is F70 rain resistant? Is it whatherproof or something like this? yesterday it started slightly raining and i decided to pack it up and not risk the possible issues...but relating to some information it is supposed to be whatherproof in terms of light rain...is it? I ordered the covers for electronic box and batt compartment but shiping to Poland will take weeks im affraid

I have a F70. It isn't waterproof. I use ziplock bags with the slider thingy to zip them up with. Put a few quart sized ones in your pocket. Works great to keep it clean too. I use them all the time on my other detectors too.

 

[Leco]

So does it mean the 2f is sort of wrong idea to hunt with? I hunt mostly on trashy areas. I noticed that false hjigh signals are appearing few inches aside to the iron and nothing is there...i figured it out and just for confirmation i dug few - all appeared to be iron so another lesson learnt
I really like it, just worried that there is no manual ground balance - hope the ground grab wont start cheating on me
One more question - is F70 rain resistant? Is it whatherproof or something like this? yesterday it started slightly raining and i decided to pack it up and not risk the possible issues...but relating to some information it is supposed to be whatherproof in terms of light rain...is it? I ordered the covers for electronic box and batt compartment but shiping to Poland will take weeks im affraid

I imagine there is nothing wrong with 2f, I am using DP because it gives the most information, it is very noisy, but I want to try to master it. I see what your saying about falsing near iron too. I get a good signal, pinpoint it, it takes me away from the good signal, sweep over that area, Iron tone. I have read elsewhere people saying to not get this thing wet.

 

[digger27]

First I just want to say that the F70 is treating me very well. I've had it about a month and my keeper grade finds are fast approaching in number what I found in two years with the Garrett 250. So I can't complain much. Nails are driving me crazy though. The majority of my nickel signals turn out to be nails, all types of nails, roofing nails, finishing nails, big friggin nails, rusty nails, square nails, new nails, bent nails, nails nails and nails. I always double check and that nickel signal doesn't return. What gives? I ground balance it correctly. It isn't EMI, not always, it happens in urban areas as well out in the middle of the boonies where there isn't a power line for a mile or two. It is kind of annoying, but on the plus side I have largely removed the threat of tetanus from my front yard.

Something isn't right.
You either have a bad coil, head unit or more probably the settings are messing you up.
Definitely do a reset.

Where is your notch set?
If it is anywhere past 1 and your disc is set at a point higher than that you will actually be notching IN iron.
Still, even if this is what you are dealing with I have no idea why all those different nails will come in at nickel.
You know what comes in at the nickel range for me?
Nickels.
Also the more common smaller and modern sta-tabs, certain size can slaw if it is flat and laying perpendicular to the coil...and gold.
I have always been good at finding nickels but with this thing and any coil when I hunt in my favorite coinshooting and jewelry setting of 4H tones they are basically jumping out of the soil for me.
They might as well just have a little red flag over them that says dig me printed on it because they are so easy to find.

What doesn't come in for me at nickel is any of that nail trash that you are describing.
I also hunt with my disc low most of the time at 4, (there is a slight boost at disc settings below 5 and over 20 and I want that boost), but the real reason I do this is because the F70 will give me that low grunt over most iron on most sizes from really tiny on up.
Also if you rim the coil over bottle caps that nice high tone and high numbers on the screen drops to iron and I can hear that grunt and tell what these are most of the time.
The really big rusty stuff that usually comes in high will jump around, not stay stable and if you move the coil around these you usually can hear that iron grunt again so this thing can almost paint a picture of exactly what is laying below you if you do it with these settings.

Do that reset or try this.
Set your disc at 0 and move the notch up from 1.
That should get rid of all that iron but it is almost like doing it backward to me.

but nail rust will false to high tones. Good coin signals will not be jumpy like high false tones unless super corroded or a multi denominational spill. I usually never discriminate more than about 4. By hearing the iron, when I get bombarded with high tones , I immediately suspect where a majority of them are originating. I realize not many people other than Digger27 or myself are willing to put up with that kind of a hunt but while learning this incredible detector the more you can hear the sooner you will realize the good from the bad.------Hope this helps---------IB

Hello...what what...did somebody say something?
For some reason I now have a constant buzzing in my ears.

Again, I do get some of that high tone rusty iron stuff, but usually it is higher than nickel.

In the most trashy of areas I run a -3 threshold. I didnt mention tones, I just haven't figured out what to use. The first few hunts i ran two tones then i ran 3h and 4h for a few weeks and for the last week i've been using delta pitch. So tone setting makes a difference? I guess it would since the VDI isnt so accurate. You are correct though, its just going to take time.

The tones should not make any difference in the numbers you get on the screen, the VDI is actually super accurate once you learn how to maneuver that coil over the target just right.
This takes a bit of practice.
On my F2 I eventually learned that by hitting the target with the exact center of my coil, and I find this sweet spot by making some short quick passes over each target and moving the coil slightly while I do this in a north and south direction, I can get the target to stay within a 2 number jump 99% of the time if it is a good one.
Sometimes I need to turn 45 degrees if I get a stubborn one that jumps a bit more but SOUNDS good and that will usually get me to within that 2 number jump again if it is a good target.
I found that at least 80% of irregular shaped trash will not settle down into that 2 number area no matter what you do, odd shapes can slaw, tabs that are on edge, irregular shaped foil and others, and that is a great thing because that never happens on a good target of any kind, coins or rings if they are not super deep, and I can avoid digging a ton of trash that way.
10-20% of trash WILL come in solid and repeating and coin like if it is the right shape or position in the ground and stay within a 2 number jump or even stick on one number, but that is fine if I can eliminate 80-90% of my trash digging and still concentrate digging the non jumpy stuff to find the goodies.

Again, the only way this method works for me is because I got so good at moving that coil around and learned to quickly determine if I can get the numbers to stay within that 2 number jump or not.
It took me awhile to get this good at doing that with the F2, and when I switched to the F70 and all that extra power it was like I was right back to zero and I couldn't get stable numbers at first at all.
My rules changed from only digging stable 2 number only jumping targets to about 5 because I just wasn't sure what I was swinging over and couldn't take the chance of missing a good target, but now with more than 50 hours on this thing and using the standard, 11" or the 5" sniper I got my chops back and can again quickly get that target to stabilize to 2 numbers, 3 at the most...or not.
I am doing a lot more 45 degree turns nowadays but over time this becomes a very quick and easy technique if you practice,
Always look for the stable numbers but couple that with listening for a good tone.
The tones trigger my digging instincts more than the numbers most of the time, and even I will dig targets that are jumpier than usual if the tone sounds good, solid, hits hard and has a sharp end to it.
If signals jump too much it is usually trash, all targets that have jumped more than 2 have always been trash for me, but you never know and I just can't get my X-Ray vision working so just to be sure I dig.

The F70, even with all that extra power, is actually MORE accurate than the F2 ever was...especially if you turn the sense down to ranges between 30 and 60 which seems to really tighten up that scanning field into a laser like surgical instrument.

So does it mean the 2f is sort of wrong idea to hunt with? I hunt mostly on trashy areas. I noticed that false hjigh signals are appearing few inches aside to the iron and nothing is there...i figured it out and just for confirmation i dug few - all appeared to be iron so another lesson learnt
I really like it, just worried that there is no manual ground balance - hope the ground grab wont start cheating on me
One more question - is F70 rain resistant? Is it whatherproof or something like this? yesterday it started slightly raining and i decided to pack it up and not risk the possible issues...but relating to some information it is supposed to be whatherproof in terms of light rain...is it? I ordered the covers for electronic box and batt compartment but shiping to Poland will take weeks im affraid

Just take a plastic bag and wrap it around your control box if you are worried about light rain and that should protect it good enough for now.
If you like to hunt in heavy rain get an AT Pro or a water machine.

The ground grab for me is super accurate and should set you up correctly for any soil conditions you come across...I have seen no "cheating" as of yet.
It is also possible to fool this thing into slightly higher and more positive settings for deep silver hunting by not completing the GB process when it comes off of the power up 90 setting...just stop at the first lower number you see when it comes off that 90 because after another pump or two it will settle into the correct setting, but I don't ever worry about this and always get great depth with the ground grab stable numbers.

Now those higher numbers.
Ghosts, false signals...you have to learn to ignore these because they are not real targets and they will not sound full like real targets will and will never really repeat and even if they seem like they are they will never repeat in the same exact place.
The ones that will hit in the exact place are real targets and iron if you hear that grunt along with those higher numbers as you found out.
Very handy I suppose in relic hunting but I usually coin and jewelry hunt so I just know to avoid digging these type of signals altogether.

I used program 2 at first as a check system for deep targets in AT, SL, 99 on the sense, 9 on the thresh and 0-4 on the disc and do you want to know how many of these false signals I get at those settings especially in high EMI sites?
A wall of noise, that's what I get, plus at those settings I also am getting all the real targets that the coil is moving over from shallow to 12" or more deep and let me tell you I knew there was a bunch of metal in the ground before but I never even had a clue on exactly how much iron and other garbage is down there till I could paint a picture of what is laying below me with the sense so high and the thresh at 9 which basically gathers in info on every fricken' piece of metal the coil is passing over.

I used to hunt mostly in disc with also high settings close to this and disc still real low but I found that AT was actually a more stable way to do this even in high EMI sites for me.
At first it was just all that noise and jumping numbers so fast on the screen that only the Flash could see them, but with practice and slowing down the coil sweep I have actually gotten pretty good at picking out those good numbers in all that mess.
Once again, practice makes perfect and it went from total crazy nonsense to hey, I can see a few good numbers now, but it didn't happen instantly or overnight.

When I do use disc I usually use 2F when not just coin hunting but in "looking for everything" mode like in the woods because it sounds so similar to the AT threshold and out of all the tones 2F seems to be bothered a bit less by heavy EMI.
Not a ton but some.

The very best thing out of all of this "wall of noise" hunting style and I am sure IBdiggen will attest to this as will a few other hunters I have noticed that hunt this way with the F70 or the F75...
No matter how much jumping on the screen is going on, no matter how fast the numbers change and pass by, no matter how many false tones you hear when the F70's coil is over a real, solid target the thing will tell you because you will get solid repeating numbers and a solid tone from every direction every time.
It is like it is just messing with you on all that other garbage but when it passes over a real target it just stops and gets down to business.
The real trick is to notice when that happens and like the Wizard of Oz pay no attention to anything else sound wise or on the screen that hits you.

I have found as I got more comfortable hunting this way when I do hunt in disc with the settings way lower it became positively easy to pick out every good target and signal I came across even in super heavy trash pits where you will also get a ton of signals due to all the real targets under the coil.

 

[IBdiggin]

There is really no wrong selections for tones. What ever signal you can adapt to that will best convey the target info to you is the best. I really have no experience with the F tones. I use Delta pitch almost entirely now since I want a mostly audio hunt, much less tiring especially if I am speed hunting in a frequently hunted area for fresh drops. While first learning DP when the foil and tabs got too over whelming I would switch to 4H. It gets harder to hear the nickels when it is very trashy since I am already concentrating on those mid trash tones for jewelry. This unit is so versatile it really has something for everybody. Hope this helps---HH------IB

 

[Leco]

Digger27, thanks for the wall of text, there is some really good info in there. I took it back out last night with a sens of 50, discrim of 7, thresh of -1, and dp. I am getting to where I can tell a true target from nails by the purity of the tone and the consistency of the VDI, if it be a coin or a tab. I need to go somewhere that I can just dig clad over and over and over. I need that... Eh, I will call it muscle memory, that conditioned recognition to a good target. Everything around here is virgin, no other detector enthusiasts. One day I will go to the park, nobody has detected it. I live in a town of 700 people, so we have only one park (about a century old), the issue is meth heads and other lowlifes hang around it. I like hunting rural farmland, because i don't run into those hassles, but the trade off is that there isnt many good targets (and i've been pounding the same half a dozen for a couple of years).