I Need Help With Boost Process Mode
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Thread: I Need Help With Boost Process Mode

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  1. #1
    us
    May 2015
    Central Mississippi
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    I Need Help With Boost Process Mode

    I have been using an F75 SE for a couple of years now and really like it. But, one of the reasons I bought it was for the BP mode and I can't use it due to constant false signals? I have tried in my test plot where I have buttons and minies buried at various depths. I have also tried to use in the field in areas with high grass or with deeper relics.

    The biggest problem is in getting the falses at the end of the swing in either direction. I am careful not to raise the coil at the end of the swing.

    I have a couple of questions.

    1. Does BP help with depth in normal areas with short grass or is it designed strictly for areas where it is difficult to get the coil close to the ground?

    2. Is there a trick in setting up the machine or in swinging it that will eliminate the false signals?

    Thanks for any suggestions you may have.

    Spats

  2. #2
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    us
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    Are you getting a good ground balance Ground Grab ?
    If so try manually lowering the GB by 3 or 4 if that don`t help.... go Up that much...slow your swing... and report back please .
    Gary
    Last edited by G.A.P.metal; Jan 08, 2018 at 02:06 PM.
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  3. #3
    us
    May 2015
    Central Mississippi
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    Quote Originally Posted by G.A.P.metal View Post
    Are you getting a good ground balance Ground Grab ?
    If so try manually lowering the GB by 3 or 4 if that don`t help.... go Up that much...slow your swing... and report back please .
    Gary
    Thanks Gary. I will try that. I'll need to bone up on the manual ground balance procedure. As to the question as to whether I'm getting a good ground grab using the automatic ground balance, does this mean am I losing the noise as I ground balance? If so, not sure. I have been lazy because I always use the automatic GB. There is not much mineralization in my area. I may be losing depth in all modes due to this.

    Gary

  4. #4
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    May 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spats View Post
    I have been using an F75 SE for a couple of years now and really like it. But, one of the reasons I bought it was for the BP mode and I can't use it due to constant false signals? I have tried in my test plot where I have buttons and minies buried at various depths. I have also tried to use in the field in areas with high grass or with deeper relics.

    The biggest problem is in getting the falses at the end of the swing in either direction. I am careful not to raise the coil at the end of the swing.

    I have a couple of questions.

    1. Does BP help with depth in normal areas with short grass or is it designed strictly for areas where it is difficult to get the coil close to the ground?

    2. Is there a trick in setting up the machine or in swinging it that will eliminate the false signals?

    Thanks for any suggestions you may have.

    Spats

    I have an F70 also with boost and I have used it...a lot.
    Not all the time but when I can and can still hunt comfortably when it is on in disc.
    When I hunt in all metal it is always on.

    You have to understand what is going in with these processes which helps.
    DE continuously monitors the ground, transmits frequencies, energizes targets and receives signals back to the coil.
    Boost is a slower process, not continuous but it takes samplings, quick snapshots that go a little deeper of what is happening under your coil.
    Because it is a slower process it is recommended that a slower sweep speed is used because too fast and you could miss something the faster process in DE can capture.
    Not sure of exactly everything that is going on but I know this slower process is definitely more affected by EMI issues in the area...things can get noisier in boost than using the same settings as DE.

    The process was invented for hunting in areas where you raise the coil higher off the ground, over stalks and vegetation in fields, hunting in woods and such, but many of us use it for hunting in areas where your coil is flat on the ground, too.
    Not everyone, and keep in mind these top end FTP products can be some of the deepest machines out there at regular DE speed, but many of us do especially some of us that have to deal with some pretty difficult ground.

    I used it in great soil in Kansas and Missouri, overall I did not sense a not a huge amount of difference in depth in either all metal or disc nor did I get a whole lot of clearer signals on deeper targets while using it.
    I could easily get to 10-12, even up to 14-15" in depth with good target data without boost.
    There actually might be more of an advantage or difference in good soil than I thought but because I seemed to be getting great depth without it, and a quieter hunting environment, I didn't use boost a whole lot in disc.

    Now here in the SE. with mineralized dirt and particularly in my sites that seem to have more than our share of iron from microscopic to huge I can tell you boost does make a difference to me a lot of the time.
    I have experimented a lot with boost here in the last few years, turning it on and off, using all kinds of different gain, thresh and tone settings plus in all metal.
    Gain from very low to maxed out and thresh from -9 to +9 which I can control in disc and many different combinations using both.
    Plus all metal again with many different gain and thresh settings and trying boost on and off in most all of them.
    The results have been way different than out west.

    On many deeper targets I could hear in boost in both all metal and disc were completely silent without boost.
    Some targets that were jumpy and iffy firmed up a lot when boost was engaged.
    In some very noisy high EMI areas I have tried changing from higher gain that was very chatty to much lower gain but with boost that still seemed to get pretty deep, get some pretty good solid dig me signals on some deeper targets but was overall quieter than using no boost and higher gain.

    I do all this experimenting because even though I have learned to hunt with extreme chatter, noise and jumping and still be successful I still think the quietest hunting environments I can manage will still let me hear the most and miss the least.
    Masking is a huge problem here so not only does hitting on the right combination of settings well might give me an advantage, if only a small one, but I found moving the coil at the correct speed could too.
    Fast sometimes, slow at other times...definitely slower when I am using boost.
    When I get a new detector I do this kind of thing for many hours, change settings while swinging over the same targets and observe what happens.
    I dig less than normal in my initial heavy experimental phase but once I find a few combinations of settings I have confidence in and that I know work I just settle down and hunt and I always make up for all those targets missed at the beginning.
    I do the work at first so I don't have to work so hard up the road in the future.

    In your soil and sites your mileage may well very but all I can tell you is maybe spend a little time experimenting yourself.
    Get a signal on a deeper not quite super solid target and switch to boost and see if it comes in better.
    Maybe adjust your gain down some to quieter levels and see if you also can pick it up while still keeping your tool quiet.
    Hit and miss to me is the only way that seems logical to get this data, try many things and explore the things that seem to work and ignore the things that don't.
    What works in one state and one kind of dirt might not in another but the only way to find out is to try.

    I just figure boost was installed in these things for a specific reason but there might be more reasons to use it than that.
    As long as it's there if we can find a way take advantage of it and find even more...why not do just that?
    Last edited by digger27; Jan 09, 2018 at 11:47 AM.
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  5. #5
    Charter Member
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    Boost Process will definitely increase falsing just as running max sensitivity. All detectors I have ever swung will false when the coil hits a solid or semi solid object when they are cranked up. I am experiences with the F2, F4, F70, F75 and F75LTD. All of them falsed, the F2 falsed the least. When I began using the F75LTD I used to run high sensitivity and ran in PF mode to reduce the falsing. Over time I learned to reduce the sensitivity to 65-75 and that allowed me to use other processes with much less falsing, especially at the end of a coil sweep.
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  6. #6
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    Digger27, is the SL process on the F70 a true boost process like the BP mode on the F75LTD?
    Rescuing Coins 1 Beep at a time

  7. #7
    us
    Nov 2015
    Western USA
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    You might try wrapping the coil wire with some velcro, as if it is moving at all it can cause falsing.
    Spats likes this.
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  8. #8
    us
    May 2015
    Central Mississippi
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    Thanks all for your input. I will experiment in my relic garden trying all the advice you have offered. I'll report results .
    G.A.P.metal and Loco-Digger like this.

  9. #9
    us
    May 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loco-Digger View Post
    Digger27, is the SL process on the F70 a true boost process like the BP mode on the F75LTD?
    Yes, on the F70/Patriot it is indeed called SL speed...I guess for that slow sampling process.

    According to Dave Johnson, the guy that designed both machines and worked closely with the guy that programmed both, it is a very similar but a slightly different programming process that does exactly the same thing as the process they call boost on the F75.
    He has mentioned that even though a little different because the F70 and F75 aren't programmed the same there is actually no difference between them as far as how they act and what they do out in the field...depth and everything.
    I always chuckled a few years ago when I read posts from the F75 guys that continuously knocked us F70 owners as using a much less priced, and so to them, much less capable detector even though we never thought so.
    The number one reason they always brought up was that they had boost and we didn't.
    In reality we had it all along, even before they got it.

    The F70 had it first, with what they learned from that eventually it was added later to upgrade the existing F75's into what I believe they called the LTD versions, the original F75's did not have it initially when they came out.

    Just one of the many reasons Dave J. has mentioned a few times why the F70 scared the marketing guys so much at FTP.
    They never wanted anyone to know exactly how close in performance this one was to their flagship model.
    I still find it hard to believe that this high performance and very capable machine that used to be such a great deal next to the flagship comparatively at the $700-$800 range is now being sold for $400 in the Patriot version.
    It is a good time to be a detectorist with all the choices we have nowadays.
    Last edited by digger27; Jan 09, 2018 at 11:50 AM.
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  10. #10

    Feb 2017
    Pa
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    Digger27.

    Have they ever made an F70 in a DST model? If not I wonder why.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighVDI View Post
    Digger27.

    Have they ever made an F70 in a DST model? If not I wonder why.
    I can think of one good reason, merchandising...it would be crazy if they could offer this upgrade, and did.
    That would likely kill at least some sales of the F75's, maybe a lot of them.

    Many couldn't deal with the chatty nature of the higher end 75's for a long time, I think many just turned the gain up too high thinking these were like many other detectors where you absolutely had to do that to get the best depth.
    Still, due to the nature of these things and their design and power they never could be considered the quietest and most stable detectors out there.
    DST solved that perception problem and that, plus their newest lower price models they came out with recently probably revitalized their sales somewhat I assume.
    If they made this one, or the Patriot, with DST if I were in the marketing arm of FTP I would consider that move bringing a lower end and a flagship model very close to each other...again.
    Too close for comfort.

    Can't say for sure but being built on the same platform as the T2 and F75 I suspect it might be easy to do this at the factory or even offer an upgrade program aftermarket for the Patriot or older F70's like they did for the two flagships.
    If FTP comes out with new top end detectors to replace the T2 and F75 and moves them down the line this upgrade might be offered in the future for the Patriot and my beloved F70.
    Till then they would be crazy to even think about doing it.

    Even if it were offered I would never do it, I like mine just the way it is chatty nature and all.

    If GM were somehow able to offer the same comfort levels, ride and similar features that the Cadillac has on a much cheaper mid priced model who in their right mind would spend the extra money on a new Caddy?
    Not easy to do in the car business but the detector business is a different animal.
    Last edited by digger27; Jan 09, 2018 at 01:03 PM.
    Loco-Digger likes this.
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  12. #12

    Feb 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by digger27 View Post
    I can think of one good reason, merchandising...it would be crazy if they could offer this upgrade, and did.
    That would likely kill at least some sales of the F75's, maybe a lot of them.

    Many couldn't deal with the chatty nature of the higher end 75's for a long time, I think many just turned the gain up too high thinking these were like many other detectors where you absolutely had to do that to get the best depth.
    Still, due to the nature of these things and their design and power they never could be considered the quietest and most stable detectors out there.
    DST solved that perception problem and that, plus their newest lower price models they came out with recently probably revitalized their sales somewhat I assume.
    If they made this one, or the Patriot, with DST if I were in the marketing arm of FTP I would consider that move bringing a lower end and a flagship model very close to each other...again.
    Too close for comfort.

    Can't say for sure but being built on the same platform as the T2 and F75 I suspect it might be easy to do this at the factory or even offer an upgrade program aftermarket for the Patriot or older F70's like they did for the two flagships.
    If FTP comes out with new top end detectors to replace the T2 and F75 and moves them down the line this upgrade might be offered in the future for the Patriot and my beloved F70.
    Till then they would be crazy to even think about doing it.

    Even if it were offered I would never do it, I like mine just the way it is chatty nature and all.

    If GM were somehow able to offer the same comfort levels, ride and similar features that the Cadillac has on a much cheaper mid priced model who in their right mind would spend the extra money on a new Caddy?
    Not easy to do in the car business but the detector business is a different animal.
    True. Essentially, an F70/patriot has most of the same important features minus maybe only the Dst. I tried to get on with my patriot but ultimately it just seemed too chatty and a little finicky on ID'ing. Targets. I think you mentioned in another thread it could have been a defective unit which wouldn't have surprised me at all.

    OP, sorry for thread hijack. I guess it's kinda related though.
    Loco-Digger likes this.

  13. #13
    Charter Member
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    I have used an older F75 (non DST), have the F70 and use it as well as my main detector the F75LTD. I had the LTD upgraded with DST back in 2015. Just knowing how to set up the machines at all sites has allowed me to hunt with out any EMI issues. Many people fail to learn how to flip through the other freqs to find a quiet one and like to run the machines hot (max sensitivity) which leads to their dislike of the machine due to potential EMI issues and falsing. I only experienced EMI with the F75 series when I switch from DE to either FA or JE modes, but cure that by reducing the sensitivity. These machines go deep even at sensitivity of 65 or lower.
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