Burnt Store Trading Post - Charlotte Harbor

[xhoosierkid]

Has anyone been metal detecting at the location of the old burnt store trading post? I have a pretty good idea where it was and would like to hunt for relics and coins. Just wondering if anyone else has already tried or would like to go with me.

 

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[Mr.Jody]

Where is this place?

 

[xhoosierkid]

just a little south of Burnt Store marina

 

[cjprice]

Found this on a website:

Burnt Store Road was an Indian trail when Hernando de Soto is believed by some to have come ashore there in 1539. It was also the path to an Indian trading post -- burned by Billy Bowlegs in 1848 -- south of today's Burnt Store Marina.

I would like to explore this area with you sometime. I've checked it out on google earth, and can't seem to pin point it.

~Chris
Cape Coral

I have checked out the trading post that was a the foot of the cape coral bridge with some good results...... Below is a map of that area, and a kettle I found there lodged in the bank near the shore.

 

[jeff k]

The following story is supposedly related to the trading post, but I think the Indians may have gotten the rifles when they attacked the trading post.

Florida in the 1830's was a battleground with the U. S. army engaged in a war against the Seminole Indians. It was not a place you would have expected to find a young inventor from Paterson, New Jersey, promoting his products. His name was Samuel Colt and he was selling guns.

Colt felt that his 8-shot revolving-cylinder carbines would find instant favor among men armed with single-shot rifles. But his success was limited. He sold a few handguns to officers, but his only quantity order was from Gen. Thomas S. Jessup for 50 carbines and more than half of them may be in a Florida swamp today, awaiting some lucky treasure hunter with a metal detector.

In a letter dated November 8, 1850, Col. Harney of the 2nd U. S. Dragoons reported; “Gen. Jessup ordered the purchase of 50 and they were placed in my hands . . . they were the first ever used or manufactured. Thirty of them were lost at Caloosahatchee . . .”

Stories vary as to just how the carbines were lost. One persistent version has it that the arms, still in their oak, zinc-lined, grease-filled cases, were lost when the canoes in which they were being transported were capsized during an Indian attack. If this is so, it's likely the guns may be in good condition today. Harney Point is part of present day Cape Coral.

 

[Jon Phillips]

The carbines (at least some of them) were taken by the Seminoles. Some were later recovered when some of the Seminoles were captured. By the way, the revolving carbines were prone to firing more than one cylinder at a time once they got hot!

 

[Jon Phillips]

"Dallam's store was erected about fifteen or twenty miles from the mouth of the Caloosahatchee, and Harney's military detachment set up it's camp a short distance away."

About 160 Indians split into two bands and attacked the camp and store at the same time.

18 men killed
14 escaped (including Harney)
Dallam's Irish setter protected his masters body until he was finally shot.
$2,000-$3,000 in trade goods were taken.
$1,500 in silver coins.
Plus the personal effects and Colt rifles from the soldiers.

-Source: History of the Second Seminole War -Mahon

Attack was July 22 at 4a.m. or 23, 1839

-14 Colt rifles taken.
-2lbs of powder.
A sergeant was wounded while running to the river, and the Indians convinced him to return with two or three of his men, and that they would not be harmed. They were executed and their entrails pulled out like the other men. Col. Harney and another sergeant escaped in one of the Indians canoes that was being loaded with supplies. They were picked up by a sloop coming from "Synabel" along with some other survivors. They returned to the camp and store to look for survivors, and supplies. They found some pickles corn and coffee.

-Source: The Origin, Progress, and Conclusion of the Florida War- Sprague

Now, here the story says they turned around at the mouth of the river, and proceeded 8 miles up the river....but it also says they started at about 11 o'clock at night, and got to the camp just before daylight. They were going slow....but that was a long time, which lends more to the 15-20 mile directions.

 

[Skull and Crossbones]

I detected a spot on Charlotte Harbor at the end of the ranger trail - there are three large oyster middens on the waters edge with wooden dock posts stubbed out of the sand. Talking to the ranger he thought that it was the site of the old store that Burnt Store gets its name from. Don't know.....anyway, just found a lot of trash. But then again it was with an old piece of crap metal detector. I've upgraded but haven't been back.

 

[xhoosierkid]

As I mentioned I have a pretty good idea about the location. I just wondered if someone who has already searched the area might see this post. Also, I wouldn't mind having someone go with me. I think I can get there on foot or by boat.

 

[Jon Phillips]

By looking at the "Bing" (MSN) map of the area, it looks like they dug up half of the peninsula so that everyone could have waterfront property!

From an account by the interpreter Sampson, the store and camp was attacked the third night after the 2nd Dragoons arrived. The interpreters, and people from the store were going to cross the river to see an Indian dance, but were warned to stay away by the younger Seminoles. The next morning at daybreak was the attack. The prisoners were later cruely put to death, but it is believed that a cleck might have later escaped.

More importantly...This account says that the Colt rifles were left on the ground after the locks were removed, because they were useless to the Seminoles, but they weren't totally useless, as the soldiers would have had ammunition, and percussion caps, and I doubt that they were all just abandoned.

The Seminoles returned to the south bank of the river, and remained intoxicated for three days. The silver coins was alledgedly taken by one man, and later "sold" to other Indians, and beat into ornaments.

I would think that three days of drinking, and not caring much for the rifles, and coins, might would make the other side of the river worth looking into.

Also...It appears that the location is in a park....If that is a STATE park....I would be very wary of taking a metal detector into it!

 

[cjprice]

The story you are referencing is for Harney point. That trading post was on the Caloosahatchee river. The burnt store store trading post is northwest of there on Charlotte harbour. Harney point was pretty much completely destroyed when they built the Cape Coral bridge. During extremely low tides pottery, and beads can be found, along with other relics. The map I posted above shows Harney point trading house.

This is what is written on the marker near the site, the relics I've found are actually across the street from this marker in the shadows of the Condo's....

Near here on the Caloosahatchee River a band of 160 Indians attacked the Fort and Trading Post at four o'clock on the morning of July 23, 1839. In the raid led by Chief Chekaika of the Spanish Indians, thirteen soldiers died and fourteen, including Col. William S. Harney in command of operations, escaped down river. A year later Col. Harney returned and destroyed Chekaika in the Everglades.

Chris
Cape Coral

 

[Jon Phillips]

I guess your post is what made me think both of you were talking about the Harney incedent!

Then what is the history of the "Burnt Store"?

 

[Jon Phillips]

Chris, looking at the satellite view of that whole area...it's a shame how they dug up all the land for all that water access.

I looked at Harney Point, and across the river where the "loot" was divided up, and it's all dug up and hauled off to somewhere.

If you have found evidence of that being the location by finding artifacts, it's the place. A lot of historical markers, and even parks in Florida are in the wrong location. The point further up by the park is more pronounced, and would be more likely to show up on an early map...except, of course, if Harney point used to be more pronounced, and was dug up and hauled off in the name of property value!

 

[cjprice]

Here's on popular story on how Burnt Store Rd. got it's name. This from a website for Burnt store Marina.



At one time the area was inhabited by the Calusa Indians, who survived on the abundance of indigenous fish and wildlife, plus whatever they could grow in the warm climate. There were more than 2,000 Indians in the area.

Then came the Spaniards, headed by Ponce de Leon, whose attempt to settle was thwarted. He and many of his men lost their lives as the result of wounds received during the skirmish to establish themselves in the area.

That was just the beginning of the settlers’ invasion of the Indian territory. Having lost their land where they were once free to hunt and raise vegetables, little by little most of the Indians left, though a few remained.

Records show that there was a little band of Indians approximately twenty miles north of the Caloosahatchee River, which would put them approximately in the Burnt Store area. The leader of the settlement was Billy Bowlegs, who led an attack during the Seminole Massacre in 1839. Despite being pushed back into limited territory, the Indians lived peacefully side by side with the settlers. It was the settlers who built The Trading Post that not only acted as the Town's General Store, but also served as a gathering place for everything from gossip to politics. The Indians, however, didn't socialize with the settlers, nor they with the Indians...except that is for Old Salty.

Old Salty resided alone in a shack down by the harbor and was known to mind his own business. He was someone who enjoyed his privacy; however, he and Billy Bowlegs managed to get along, learn from each other, and become good friends.


The area was enjoying a peaceful existence, when young Lt. Gil Hartstuff arrived with a band of surveyors. Feeling the power of his new position, he paraded around once Indian territory as though he owned it, asking permission from no one, and not caring what damage he did. Old Salty became concerned about what Lt. Hartstuff was doing and brought it to the young officer's attention. Salty warned of raising his Indian Friend's ire, but the Lieutenant just laughed it off, pegging salty for nothing more than an old coot.”

The rest of the settlers didn't much care what happened to the Indians – they would be just as happy if the Indians left. If we're going to lose our land,” proclaimed Billy Bowlegs, we won't do it without fighting for it!”

So one dark night, as the legend goes, Billy and his little band stormed The Trading Post and set it on fire. Some of the surveyors spotted the Indians on the run and fired at them, killing some. Many of the settlers lost their lives in the fire.

Billy and a few of his followers managed to get away but knew they had to leave the area. Old Salty hid them for a few days until the situation cooled down, then the two old friends said goodbye.

Old Salty stayed on in the village and the people accepted him more, and listened to his wisdom, knowing that if they had listened before, many would not have lost their lives.

The Trading Post was never rebuilt, but from that day on the road leading to it was know as Burnt Store Road.

Chris
Cape Coral

 

[cjprice]

Jon,

I thought you might like this........

~Chris

 

[Jon Phillips]

Interesting account, but a little non-historical, since it was Lt George L. Hartsuff, and the incident was the survey crew taking banannas from Billy Bowlegs deserted town some thirty miles from Ft Myers, into the Big Cypress Swamp in 1855.

There were two forts, Simon Drum, and Shackleford, that were burned, so it would be feasible that a trading post would also have been burned.....The forts were abandoned at the time.

I don't know about "Old Salty".

I like that sticker!