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  1. #1

    Sep 2006
    Cape Canaveral
    Radio Shack
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    Cape Canaveral 16th century wrecks; research needed

    I found a treasure map for sale in St, Augustine which listed some interesting shipwrecks in my area. Mind you, this
    map is just one of the those commercially produced products marketed for tourists so it is nothing to get excited
    about but I am curious to its accuracy. Has anybody heard of the these shipwrecks?

    1) 1570 Vizacyo wrecked near Ais, richly ladened and the
    Indians of the King of Ais salvaged a Great deal of her
    treasure.

    2)Armada of Nueva Espana 1556


    3) 1554 the ship San Estavan of Farfari sank near Ais, ricly laden
    with gold and silver.

    Also finding images of coins from these ship would be interesting. Also interesting to
    note that these wrecks are just over 40 years after the landing of Ponce de Leon in
    1513.

    -RKO
    "Seek and ye shall find."

  2. #2
    us
    discovering & preserving our past for future generations

    Dec 2004
    Aquapulse, DetectorPro Headhunter, Fisher F75
    2,246
    71 times
    Shipwrecks

    Re: Cape Canaveral 16th century wrecks; research needed

    Ray: the wrecks that you mention came from a book (or books) published by Bob Marx of Indialantic, FL.

    Here is a link to a listing of some of his books:

    http://classicdivebooks.customer.net...s-a-marks.html

    By the way, the 1554 wreck listed as lost near Ais (Florida), was actually part of a fleet that wrecked off Padre island, Texas, and those wrecks were salvaged in the 1960's.

    http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/o...articles/etpfe

    Regards, Tom Gidus

  3. #3
    us
    da book worm--researcher

    Feb 2007
    callahan,fl
    delta 4000 / ace 250 - used BH and many others too
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    Re: Cape Canaveral 16th century wrecks; research needed

    there is talk that the 1618 * hondurain treasure fleets --treasure vessels sank near the 1715 fleet sites

    yep padre island , texas got the 1554 fleet wrecks * --note --- if you look at the "degree line" that padre island , texas is at you will see if you trace it sideways over to florida -- marx book lists it on same "degree line" if one looks at the florida coast -- this was is why the mix up in marx 's research occured ***when he read it in the spanish archives as being lost at that "degree mark" -- he thought it was at that "degree mark" was on florida's east coast - instead of being padre island , texas.

  4. #4
    us
    discovering & preserving our past for future generations

    Dec 2004
    Aquapulse, DetectorPro Headhunter, Fisher F75
    2,246
    71 times
    Shipwrecks

    Re: Cape Canaveral 16th century wrecks; research needed

    You are welcome Ray.

  5. #5
    Charter Member
    us
    Come out from under your bed today...... DO SOMETHING!

    Jun 2008
    Yarnell,AZ and Titusville,FL
    Right now: Garrett GTA 500, ACE 250, Fisher Impulse 8, Gold Bug 2, Whites GMT, Vibraprobe 570, and Falcon MD20
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    Coinshooting, Gold prospecting, and Nuggetshooting
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    Re: Cape Canaveral 16th century wrecks; research needed

    If you want to research spanish wrecks.... learn spanish! Then you can research "the source" in the Spanish archives. Who knows, with a good command of spanish, your talent will command a price. TTC
    ONE MIND - ANY WEAPON

  6. #6
    us
    da book worm--researcher

    Feb 2007
    callahan,fl
    delta 4000 / ace 250 - used BH and many others too
    14,501
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    Honorable Mentions (1)

    Re: Cape Canaveral 16th century wrecks; research needed

    si-- its a good thing to learn spanish if you want to read documents written in spanish -- note 16th century spanish is a lot like speaking "old english" --its not 'modern" spanish -- it is not that easy as the documents are faded out , the scrallish type writing is often difficult to read and it's general tone and word useage is very archaic in nature.

  7. #7
    Charter Member
    us
    Come out from under your bed today...... DO SOMETHING!

    Jun 2008
    Yarnell,AZ and Titusville,FL
    Right now: Garrett GTA 500, ACE 250, Fisher Impulse 8, Gold Bug 2, Whites GMT, Vibraprobe 570, and Falcon MD20
    4,327
    1636 times
    Coinshooting, Gold prospecting, and Nuggetshooting
    Honorable Mentions (1)

    Re: Cape Canaveral 16th century wrecks; research needed

    Quote Originally Posted by ivan salis
    si-- its a good thing to learn spanish if you want to read documents written in spanish -- note 16th century spanish is a lot like speaking "old english" --its not 'modern" spanish -- it is not that easy as the documents are faded out , the scrallish type writing is often difficult to read and it's general tone and word useage is very archaic in nature.
    Modern Spanish, old Spanish, doesn't matter. Robtert Marx, Fisher, etc, they ALL employe lots of "readers" to sort things out. Anyone that can decypher the old transcrpts has a talent your would-be treasure hunter pays for. TTC
    ONE MIND - ANY WEAPON

  8. #8
    us
    da book worm--researcher

    Feb 2007
    callahan,fl
    delta 4000 / ace 250 - used BH and many others too
    14,501
    752 times
    Honorable Mentions (1)

    Re: Cape Canaveral 16th century wrecks; research needed

    I know --I do research --its a art reading the old stuff.

  9. #9

    Sep 2006
    Cape Canaveral
    Radio Shack
    94
    1 times

    Re: Cape Canaveral 16th century wrecks; research needed

    Quote Originally Posted by mad4wrecks
    Ray: the wrecks that you mention came from a book (or books) published by Bob Marx of Indialantic, FL.

    Here is a link to a listing of some of his books:

    http://classicdivebooks.customer.net...s-a-marks.html

    By the way, the 1554 wreck listed as lost near Ais (Florida), was actually part of a fleet that wrecked off Padre island, Texas, and those wrecks were salvaged in the 1960's.

    http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/o...articles/etpfe

    Regards, Tom Gidus

    Thanks for all the great insights. Recently, I met an university professor who teaches students to read Spanish writing. I'm trying to get them to do some interpretations on a map made of the area by a 17th century Spanish explorer. If anybody wants to look at the image of the map and give me an interpretation of what they think the Spanish writing on it is, let me know and I will share it with them.

    Speaking of treasure, did anybody read that one of the guides from Kip Wagner's Real Eight group that one of the pirates (maybe Jennings) kept his treasure in a block house in Cape Canaveral? I bought this auction guide regarding the 1715 treasure and it mentioned this in a narrative but I have not found any secondary sources to back this up.

    Anybody aware of any interesting finds in the Cape Canaveral/Cocoa Beach area?

    -RKO
    "Seek and ye shall find."

  10. #10

    Sep 2006
    Cape Canaveral
    Radio Shack
    94
    1 times

    Re: Cape Canaveral 16th century wrecks; research needed

    Quote Originally Posted by mad4wrecks


    By the way, the 1554 wreck listed as lost near Ais (Florida), was actually part of a fleet that wrecked off Padre island, Texas, and those wrecks were salvaged in the 1960's.

    http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/o...articles/etpfe

    Regards, Tom Gidus
    I'm a little confused by this part, Tom. At first I thought it meant that the map had a bogus entry because if their fleet wrecked off the coast
    of Texas in the Gulf then how would one ship venture off course and end up sinking off Cape Canaveral? Is that what you meant, that the map
    had a bogus entry for this wreck off Cape Canaveral? When I first read this I thought the info from the link would tell me but it doesn't.

    Awesome wreck though. The early one's like this are interesting as the Spanish were in their learning curve at this time.

    -RKO
    "Seek and ye shall find."

  11. #11
    us
    da book worm--researcher

    Feb 2007
    callahan,fl
    delta 4000 / ace 250 - used BH and many others too
    14,501
    752 times
    Honorable Mentions (1)

    Re: Cape Canaveral 16th century wrecks; research needed

    marx thought the degree listed in the old spanish document he found in the archives was for florida 's east coast --it wasn't , it was for padre island in texas --- follow the degree line --you will see padre island * at the degree listed in marx's book as a "florida wreck" --thats where the fleet actually wrecked at padre island, texas ,not in florida -- quite simply put -- a simple screw up --no one is perfect , we are all just humans.

  12. #12

    Sep 2006
    Cape Canaveral
    Radio Shack
    94
    1 times

    Re: Cape Canaveral 16th century wrecks; research needed

    Quote Originally Posted by ivan salis
    marx thought the degree listed in the old spanish document he found in the archives was for florida 's east coast --it wasn't , it was for padre island in texas --- follow the degree line --you will see padre island * at the degree listed in marx's book as a "florida wreck" --thats where the fleet actually wrecked at padre island, texas ,not in florida -- quite simply put -- a simple screw up --no one is perfect , we are all just humans.
    I lean towards Bob Marx's theory though. Why would Spanish treasure fleet end up in Texas? The treasure fleet shipments were to catch the Gulf
    stream which flowed along the eastern seaboard back to Spain. Starting in Vera Cruz Mexico and collated and beginning their voyage from Havanna
    Cuba. It must have been a huge Hurricane to blow them that far off course. Has this been well researched and sourced?

    -RKO
    "Seek and ye shall find."

  13. #13
    us
    da book worm--researcher

    Feb 2007
    callahan,fl
    delta 4000 / ace 250 - used BH and many others too
    14,501
    752 times
    Honorable Mentions (1)

    Re: Cape Canaveral 16th century wrecks; research needed

    AH MY FREIND ourhistory 153 --one needs to know the historical routes and navigation methods of the spanish treasure fleets to properly understand this , they caught the gulf stream only after they came from mexico to cuba * (it was used to go up floridas east coast after leaving havana ) --the way they travelled from mexico to get cuba at that time frame was by hugging the coastline -- and using "visible" landmarks --navagating by "dead reckoning" as it is known by today --the spanish of that time did not sail straight accross the gulf of mexico * , when they went from mexico to cuba * they cruised the coastlines going mexico to texas to louisanna to alabama to florida down floridas west coast then to cuba ---once one understands the routes they took--- one can easily understand how they wound up off of padre island texas * -- only much later on when they were able to properly fix their longitude did ships navagatiors give up on "dead reckoning" as the main means of navagation

    that is why the spanish tried to put a colony in pensacola , florida * --it was to be a rest /restore / repair stopping point for the treasure fleets during their coast hugging trip from mexico to havana

    if one looks at the latitude line * of padre island , texas one can clearly see it lines up perfectly with the latitude listed by marx in his book as a "florida wreck" --( plus the actual wrecks have been found there ) so clearly it a simple mistake , a lot like the "east , west" translation error he made that once it was corrected allowed mel fisher to quickly find the atocha , a short time afterwards -- hell no one is perfect --I will however go on the record as saying bob marx is damn good and has found much more treasure by far than I ever hope to be able to and is a living icon of treasure salvaging , but hes still human after all, and we as humans can and do make errors now and then.

  14. #14
    Always Lookin

    Jun 2006
    Excal 1000
    65

    Re: Cape Canaveral 16th century wrecks; research needed

    Dont know if this is going to pan out but I was just given (hopefully) access to MD the shores of cape canaveral.....anyone know of a spot on that shore to start?

    JvilleHunter
    JvilleHunter

  15. #15
    us
    da book worm--researcher

    Feb 2007
    callahan,fl
    delta 4000 / ace 250 - used BH and many others too
    14,501
    752 times
    Honorable Mentions (1)

    Re: Cape Canaveral 16th century wrecks; research needed

    yes

 

 

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