My favorite piece of fur trade lead!

[Rob (B.C.)]

Here's another of my HBC fur trade finds. I recognized it as a lead seal when I dug it, but it was very crusty and I couldn't see any detail. After cleaning, I could make out some detail and after some research I figured out that it has the Hudson Bay Co. motto "Pro Pelle Cutem" around the outside and the fox sitting on a hat in the middle taken from the company's coat of arms adopted in 1671!!!

By far one of my favorites!!



Here's the coat of arms for comparison.

[Ia.FurTrade]

Killer relic, Rob!
Dale

[dneyedli@res1.mts.net]

Rob, that bale seal is incredible! I have never found one of those and I have found a lot of those seals over the years. I wonder when they stamped that one. Did you find it at your 1820's site? I bet there are a lot of collectors out there that would want that. You gave me a new thing to put on my wish list.
Nice find!
Dave.

[Rob (B.C.)]

Rob, that bale seal is incredible! I have never found one of those and I have found a lot of those seals over the years. I wonder when they stamped that one. Did you find it at your 1820's site? I bet there are a lot of collectors out there that would want that. You gave me a new thing to put on my wish list.
Nice find!
Dave.

Thanks Dave!......All my fur trade finds have come from the one site so far (actually in use from 1821 until the 1860's). My research has led me to believe that I have an older site (NW.co.) not too far away either. Once you get bitten by the fur trade bug, you just want to find more!!

I think this is a special piece and I'm sure there's one waiting for you to find too. Stay tuned, I'll be posting more of my fur trade goodies in the next few days (I'm just trying to not clog the forum with my finds all at once).....I haven't found a lot, but some things have been pretty special.

[Hardy]

fabulus entum leadum




my stupid way of saying GREAT LEAD

[dneyedli@res1.mts.net]

Well the fox design is consistent with the HBC button (with belt surrounding) that dates to the 1850's. That's what I would guess if it weren't for the fact that the over type of bale seal resembles the kind that are a lot earlier.
I might find it in one of my books some day when I go through them. (winter time)
Good find.
Dave.

[Rob (B.C.)]

Well the fox design is consistent with the HBC button (with belt surrounding) that dates to the 1850's. That's what I would guess if it weren't for the fact that the over type of bale seal resembles the kind that are a lot earlier.
I might find it in one of my books some day when I go through them. (winter time)
Good find.
Dave.

Do you have one of those buttons!?! .....I've never seen an HBC button with the fox.

We discussed this seal on another forum, and some east coast relic hunters were scratching their heads too, because that style of seal usually dates earlier. Anything is possible on this site because it was in use for awhile, but everything "should" be later than 1820.

[dneyedli@res1.mts.net]

Rob,
This button pictured is what your seal reminds me of.
Dave.

[Rob (B.C.)]

Well, that certainly is the exact same design! It's too bad there isn't more research material on this fur trade stuff. Sometimes I feel like guys like us that hunt these sites should be writing some books (Not that we have all the answers either). The "experts" seem to just make some good guesses with not much real back up info......I'm not sure where the picture you posted is from, but the caption below even says "Probably a uniform button". There just isn't much for truly trustworthy information on this stuff. .....Anyway, I definitely wouldn't discount the possibility of it being mid 1800's as my site does work into that time frame.

I did find mention of these exact seals being found in excavations at Fort Vancouver in Oregon state (It was established in 1824 and in it's heyday in the 1840's), so again your mid 1800's guess sounds pretty close!

Here's a link to that article if you want to have a read:...."Lead seal" and "Pro Pelle Cutem" are highlighted.

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache...&ct=clnk&gl=ca

Please post up your buttons!!! I haven't found any HBC buttons of any type yet. Just heaps of plain flat brass and tombac trade buttons, and one tiny two piece flower button.