Bakelite

[TreasureHunters]

So when doing the 409 test, will the area thats being tested turn yellow or the actual cotton swab itself? Thanks

 

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[inspectorgadget]

The swab, do it in a place that's hidden tho as it could affect the finish of the bakelite piece!

 

[mamabear]

got a picture for us? I love bakelite

 

[TreasureHunters]

none yet, just wondering I see bags of costume jewelry at goodwill so Im sure I will come across some soon

 

[insontis]

none yet, just wondering I see bags of costume jewelry at goodwill so Im sure I will come across some soon

That's EXACTLY where I found my first piece. I'm selling it now: Vintage Bakelite Elephant Napkin Ring Brown Rootbeer Color | eBay

The 409 test I read is the best test, but you should clean it off right after in case it could damage the piece. I hear that simichrome polish works very well without damaging the piece, but it will leave the spot you rubbed shinier and polished compared to the rest. Not a good thing if you want that aged patina.

 

[twiasp]

I googled around a lot and seems some stuff called Simichrome works better. I'm not sure if this is true but it said something about it wouldn't rip off the finish and actually just polishes it more, and if not thoroughly cleaned it will not mess up the bakelite. The stuff i saw said the cotton swab will turn yellow, also as it sits on the swab it will continue to keep turning more vibrant yellow for a while.

 

[TreasureHunters]

That's EXACTLY where I found my first piece. I'm selling it now: Vintage Bakelite Elephant Napkin Ring Brown Rootbeer Color | eBay

The 409 test I read is the best test, but you should clean it off right after in case it could damage the piece. I hear that simichrome polish works very well without damaging the piece, but it will leave the spot you rubbed shinier and polished compared to the rest. Not a good thing if you want that aged patina.

Nice, you got a bid already too

 

[TreasureHunters]

I googled around a lot and seems some stuff called Simichrome works better. I'm not sure if this is true but it said something about it wouldn't rip off the finish and actually just polishes it more, and if not thoroughly cleaned it will not mess up the bakelite. The stuff i saw said the cotton swab will turn yellow, also as it sits on the swab it will continue to keep turning more vibrant yellow for a while.

Thanks, anyone use this simichrome?

 

[inspectorgadget]

That's EXACTLY where I found my first piece. I'm selling it now: Vintage Bakelite Elephant Napkin Ring Brown Rootbeer Color | eBay

The 409 test I read is the best test, but you should clean it off right after in case it could damage the piece. I hear that simichrome polish works very well without damaging the piece, but it will leave the spot you rubbed shinier and polished compared to the rest. Not a good thing if you want that aged patina.

I personally would have put catalin in the title as well as bakelite if for nothing else the possible extra hits from that specific keyword. Bakelite/Catalin is really basically the same stuff & if that piece is from Europe & especially France it probably is catalin not bakelite tho again they are basically the same substance.

 

[inspectorgadget]

Thanks, anyone use this simichrome?

Yes & I was just looking for it as I haven't used it in months. It is the best & most fail safe test for sure.

 

[TreasureHunters]

wait whats catalin>?

 

[twiasp]

Think when some French company bought out Bakelite it was renamed to Catalin. Also think they started to make white and see through versions. Not an expert though so don't quote me on that.

 

[insontis]

I personally would have put catalin in the title as well as bakelite if for nothing else the possible extra hits from that specific keyword. Bakelite/Catalin is really basically the same stuff & if that piece is from Europe & especially France it probably is catalin not bakelite tho again they are basically the same substance.

Ah... I appreciate the suggestion. Next time I'll be sure to try that out! I do have a handful of watchers currently and it seems like everyone is waiting for the end to throw a bid in..

 

[inspectorgadget]

wait whats catalin>?

Think when some French company bought out Bakelite it was renamed to Catalin. Also think they started to make white and see through versions. Not an expert though so don't quote me on that.

The words "bakelite" and "catalin" are often used interchangeably. However, they are actually two different materials. Both are thermoset plastics made from formaldehyde. The differences between the two are in the fillers used, origin of manufacture, the opaqueness, and the colors available. Most bakelite jewelry that you see for sale is actually catalin.

Bakelite; This thermoset plastic made from phenol formaldehyde has fillers to make it more durable, stronger and less expensive. The filler could be rags, cotton, wood, carbon black - even asbestos. Because of this, reworking the product can make it harmful to your health. By and large, bakelite is very opaque. True bakelite colors are normally very dark because of the fillers. Bakelite is a US manufactured product, patented in 1907 by a Belgian chemist, Dr. Leo Hendrik Baekeland, working in New York. Most early uses of Bakelite were radios, handles for pots and pans, castings for televisions, toys, etc. Some was even used in coffins! Bakelite was manufactured between 1907 and 1927.

Catalin; is a thermoset plastic made from either phenol, melamine or urea formaldehyde, that normally has no fillers. It can be reworked and is usually very colorful. Catalin is also very translucent. Sunlight causes catalin to lighten over time. Catalin is also subject to shrinkage. When the patent for bakelite expired in 1927, the patent was acquired by the Catalin Corporation in the same year. The Catalin Corporation is thought to be responsible for nearly 70% of the phenol resins available today - thus the statement that most bakelite jewelry sold is actually catalin. Catalin jewelry production continued through the 1930s and 40s in abundance. With the introduction of lucite in the 1950s, the production of vintage catalin jewelry effectively ceased in the 1960s, although it is still possible to get reworked pieces which were manufactured much later than this date.

Hope that helps!

 

[insontis]

Great information, inspectorgadget! Is there any way to tell which is which other than appearance? For instance, some test that they react differently to? Or visually are they quite distinctively different with little/no overlap?

 

[inspectorgadget]

Great information, inspectorgadget! Is there any way to tell which is which other than appearance? For instance, some test that they react differently to? Or visually are they quite distinctively different with little/no overlap?

IMO They actually look nothing alike... think of old toaster handles (real dark chocolate brown, flat color + non transparent) & then look at what you have which is brown with some green & is slightly translucent or opaque & not a flat color.

What you have is technically Catalin I can tell from the pictures, there is no filler material in your piece. But again the terms are interchangeable & both terms are used to describe both materials by people. Catalin is technically correct & yet bakelite is not really "mis-describing" it.

**edit** The 409 & semichrome test will not or can not tell the difference between the 2 substances.

 

[insontis]

IMO They actually look nothing alike... think of old toaster handles (real dark chocolate brown, flat color + non transparent) & then look at what you have which is brown with some green & is slightly translucent or opaque & not a flat color.

What you have is technically Catalin I can tell from the pictures, there is no filler material in your piece. But again the terms are interchangeable & both terms are used to describe both materials by people. Catalin is technically correct & yet bakelite is not really "mis-describing" it.

**edit** The 409 & semichrome test will not or can not tell the difference between the 2 substances.

Thanks that helps a lot! I have a pretty good idea of how to differentiate between the two now. Would "genuine" Bakelite fetch a higher price than a Catalin piece of the same design? Or does it simply depend on the design/ desirability of each piece? I hope you don't mind me picking your brain on the subject!

 

[inspectorgadget]

Thanks that helps a lot! I have a pretty good idea of how to differentiate between the two now. Would "genuine" Bakelite fetch a higher price than a Catalin piece of the same design? Or does it simply depend on the design/ desirability of each piece? I hope you don't mind me picking your brain on the subject!

Genuine Bakelite is really no more or less valuable, it's older & rarer in jewelry form but it's no where as nice looking as Catalin is so it's a 2 way street (rarer vs. more appealing). So yes it does depend on the design & desirability of each piece! I have a box full of Bakelite AC plugs, adapters, splitters, couch coasters, pot & pan handles, lid handles & so on. None of that is visually appealing unless you like slightly shinny chocolate colored "plastic". That said pre 1927 genuine Bakelite jewelry can be pretty valuable depending on the piece & the exact color & design.

I have some incomplete backgammon sets (missing a couple of the chips) they are bakelite/Catalin pieces (real common for old vintage backgammon sets). One set I have are white chips + dice & deep red chips + dice (actually their almost if not a deep maroon color). Since I'm missing a couple chips I would like to experiment & turn them into a necklace by drilling a hole thru them (the long length wise, not thru the short width side in the center of the chip), you know so they would lay flat. I just gotta be sure there is no asbestos in them (which there shouldn't be as they weren't actually made for thermal protection). If I know for sure their Catalin which I'm 99.9% sure they are then its safe to drill them out. If their actually Bakelite there is too high a chance they contain asbestos & drilling them would be a huge mistake for anyone! If a genuine Bakelite item was made to be thermal protecting it will 100% have asbestos in it & it will be that chocolate brown color or almost if not black in color like typical old pan handles!

 

[insontis]

So does that mean that asbestos will only be present in those dark colors and it would be safe to work with pieces that are lighter in color? I feel like running out and looking for more pieces now :P. I saw that a lot of the highest valued "bakelite" pieces were the old tube radios and "cherry amber" large bead necklaces & prayer beads. I'm still looking to find bakelite pieces.. let alone figure out which ones hold genuine value. I'll figure it out eventually!

 

[inspectorgadget]

So does that mean that asbestos will only be present in those dark colors and it would be safe to work with pieces that are lighter in color? I feel like running out and looking for more pieces now :P. I saw that a lot of the highest valued "bakelite" pieces were the old tube radios and "cherry amber" large bead necklaces & prayer beads. I'm still looking to find bakelite pieces.. let alone figure out which ones hold genuine value. I'll figure it out eventually!

No I don't know that to be fact, darker pieces have a lot of filler in them that's for sure & that's what makes them a solid flat non transparent color. This filer can vary but asbestos is excellent at insulating so it only makes since anything Bakelite that would see high temps will most likely have asbestos in it & prolly some black carbon as well. If it's Bakelite just assume its not safe to work with but if its Catalin then its perfectly safe to work with.

Larger or very neatly designed bangle type bracelets (especially the gum drop type designs) bring top dollar as well!