Would there be interest in carbon-fiber shafts for the AT-series (Pro/Gold/Max)?

[sgoss66]

Hi all!

I have been pondering the possibility of introducing a new addition to the product lineup at my company, "Steve's Detector Rods." I've been building high-quality carbon-fiber rods and shafts for the Minelab CTX 3030 and Minelab Equinox for a couple of years now, and I'm a sponsor/vendor here at T-Net. I have built up a solid customer base, and have gradually expanded my product lineup/options over time.

During the past couple of years, I have received semi-regular inquiries from customers asking "do you produce shafts for any other brands of machines," and at times, those questions come from users of Garrett's AT-series machines. As such, I've begun considering the possibility of designing a high-quality carbon-fiber lower shaft (either a one- or a two-piece shaft, or both) that would replace the two sections of the AT shaft extending from the upper cam lock down to the coil end of the shaft. On a two-piece version of such a shaft, the two sections would be connected/mated through the use of the same high-strength, heavy-duty clamp-type cam lock that I use on my Equinox shafts, allowing quick/easy adjustment of your lower rod length.

If I were able to bring such a design from the drawing board to production mode, would any of you be interested in such a shaft? I'm just gauging interest at this point, and would welcome any comments...

Thanks!

Steve​

www.stevesdetectorrods.com
www.facebook.com/stevesdetectorrods

email:[email protected]​

 

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[smokeythecat]

Good question. I had an AT Pro and the build quality is GOOD. I wouldn't have thought to get a lower shaft for it as the build quality was excellent.

Now not all machines are build equally, so, it is a good question.

 

[sgoss66]

Smokey --

THANKS for the thoughts there. Yes, I don't expect that there's a "shaft wobble" issue to be fixed, like there was with some of the early Equinoxes.

In this case, the benefits would be as follows:

1. Unlimited, "universal" adjustment lengths for the lower rod, very quickly and easily (the spring button on the lower rod would be eliminated, as facilitated by the heavy-duty lever-type cam lock, permitting unlimited adjustments to lower rod length).

2. Likewise, that type of cam lock permits easy, quick attachment/detachment of the lower rod, making coil swaps faster/less tedious.

3. The carbon-fiber shaft would also be lighter, of course.

4. Finally, a carbon-fiber shaft would add some additional aesthetic appeal to the unit (particularly for those who would be interested in adding some color, via a colored carbon-fiber shaft).

This is good input, though; thanks, smokey. I definitely need to determine whether it would be something folks would be interested in, if I were to attempt to "bring it to market."

Thanks!

Steve

 

[smokeythecat]

See how many responses you get in a few days. There are a zillion AT series out there and they last for years. There probably is a market, just how big is the question. Is "camo" a color?

 

[sgoss66]

Agreed. What responses I get to the post should give me some idea as to whether there would be any appreciate interest in such an idea.

(And yes, funny you should ask, but camo IS a color option; just this morning, I noticed a carbon-fiber tube supplier offering "camo" color patterns...!!)


Steve

 

[smokeythecat]

I knew it wasn't a joke!!!!!

 

[sgoss66]

LOL! I think I might want to make one of those colors of shaft for myself!

Steve

 

[smokeythecat]

Great for your carry on at the airport! Will fool those guys!

 

[sgoss66]

LOL!

I all seriousness, I am a sucker for camo patterns, and I actually do like a few of those. Call me strange, I guess!

But there are SO many colors and patterns out there now, on carbon-fiber tubes, it's amazing...

Steve

 

[Misuraco]

Are u making the shafts for AT? I would buy one ASAP

 

[Rookster]

I like the tan camo kinda in the left middle. What price point do you think? My Pro with the 6x8 coil is pretty light but I know we all would like lighter.

 

[sgoss66]

misuraco -- I am working on it as we speak. I have parts ordered to produce a limited number of two-piece lower shafts for the AT/Ace machines...i.e. the section from the upper twist lock, down to the coil. It would attach to that upper twist lock, but the "lower" twist lock would be eliminated, in favor of the clamp-type cam lock I use on my Equinox shafts (which also allows elimination of the button holes -- and thus you would have quick/easy and UNLIMITED adjustment length of your lower shaft length by just flipping open the cam lock, adjusting the lower rod to where you want it, and then clamping it shut again), instead of being confined to button-hole locations. I am working on a design for the upper, "S" portion of the shaft, which is more difficult/expensive, as most carbon-fiber manufacturers I've spoken with want to create a "mold" for that upper shaft section, which is quite expensive. I am trying to have them produced without requiring a mold. So, for now, I'd be selling a two-piece lower shaft, with the possibility of a COMPLETE shaft, down the road. Thanks for your interest!

rook -- thus far, I haven't been able to find a supplier who can produce the camo-pattern tubes, in relatively small quantity. I continue to explore this avenue, but this first, small batch of shafts would be black, and a couple of the colors I produce Equinox shafts in (red/black, blue/black). Thank you also, for your interest!

Steve

 

[Rookster]

misuraco -- I am working on it as we speak. I have parts ordered to produce a limited number of two-piece lower shafts for the AT/Ace machines...i.e. the section from the upper twist lock, down to the coil. It would attach to that upper twist lock, but the "lower" twist lock would be eliminated, in favor of the clamp-type cam lock I use on my Equinox shafts (which also allows elimination of the button holes -- and thus you would have quick/easy and UNLIMITED adjustment length of your lower shaft length (by just flipping open the cam lock, adjusting the lower rod to where you want it, and then clamping it shut again), instead of being confined to button-hole locations. I am working on a design for the upper, "S" portion of the shaft, which is more difficult/expensive, as most carbon-fiber manufacturers I've spoken with want to create a "mold" for that upper shaft section, which is quite expensive. I am trying to have them produced without requiring a mold. So, for now, I'd be selling a two-piece lower shaft, with the possibility of a COMPLETE shaft, down the road. Thanks for your interest!

rook -- thus far, I haven't been able to find a supplier who can produce the camo-pattern tubes, in relatively small quantity. I continue to explore this avenue, but this first, small batch of shafts would be black, and a couple of the colors I produce Equinox shafts in (red/black, blue/black). Thank you also, for your interest!

Steve

Look forward to seeing what you come out with.

 

[sgoss66]

rook -- thanks for the kind words!

The latest idea from my tube producer -- to avoid, at first, the expensive mold needed to make a carbon-fiber S-curve -- would be to make JUST the S-curve portion (the part where the hand grip is specifically), out of aluminum, with straight sections of carbon-fiber tube attached/epoxied to either side to complete the "upper shaft" section. This would be a "work around," to avoid the up-front investment in a mold, until I have a chance to "gauge the market" and get a feel for how well the shafts might sell. With that said, it seems like a pretty decent idea for a "work around;" I don't see any negative to doing it this way. I think it may be something worth pursuing. Here's a rough sketch of the portion that would be aluminum (the S-handle). The rest would be carbon fiber, and overall, being able to produce this upper section of the shaft would mean that I would then be able to also eliminate the UPPER twist lock, in favor of a second one of my clamp-type cam locks.


Finally, at the point of having a complete shaft design finalized, and in production, my optional counterweight system would then also become a possibility for the AT/Ace shafts...


Thanks!

Steve

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[BubbaJon]

Ummm CF is conductive. Not sure if it would impact the detector coil field or not but maybe experiments are in order.

 

[sgoss66]

BubbaJon,

Carbon fiber will conduct electricity, but is considered a high-resistance/poor conductor -- i.e. minimally detectable. If you were to pass your coil over a carbon-fiber tube, at very close distance, the machine may report a weak, low-conductive signal. However, this is not an issue, when the carbon-fiber tube is attached to the coil -- as the shaft is not "in motion" relative to the coil, and therefore the machine (which is of course a "motion" detector) does not detect the shaft when the shaft is attached to the coil. This, plus the fact that a carbon-fiber tube is, as I mentioned, only a weak conductor to begin with, renders this of no concern, in terms of use on a metal detector.


More importantly, I think it is important to keep in mind that many detectors (CTX 3030, E-Trac, Explorer, Safari, for instance) are of a factory design that employs the use of carbon-fiber lower rods -- and these machines are among the top performing detectors available; as such, adding a carbon-fiber lower rod to an AT-series machine is likewise of no issue, in terms of performance of the unit.

Carbon-fiber lower rods have been used with metal detectors for about two decades now. This isn't a new idea, and certainly not one that affects detector performance.

Thanks,

Steve​

 

[HighVDI]

Ummm CF is conductive. Not sure if it would impact the detector coil field or not but maybe experiments are in order.

I run Steve's setup on my Equinox 800 and it runs like a dream. No issues there. The counter weight would work wonders for the big coil users, too!

 

[BubbaJon]

BubbaJon,

Carbon fiber will conduct electricity, but is considered a high-resistance/poor conductor -- i.e. minimally detectable. ​

I fly FPV quadcopters which use a frame made of CF. The CF can and will block RF so it's crucial how you orient and run the antennas for the receivers.
You also don't want to short the electronics on the frame - you'd never guess it was "high" resistance from the arc.
The lack of relative motion I can agree with but anything conductive in the field can distort it to a degree. What effect that would have I dunno.
I was just cautioning that CF IS conductive.

 

[sgoss66]

BubbaJon --

What I understand, from my research, is that carbon is a conductor, but the "resin" used in CFRP tubes is not -- and thus, acts as an "insulator." The overall result (carbon fibers embedded within the resin) is that a CF tube is a weak "low" conductor, from the perspective of detecting it with a metal detector.

BUT, again, I think this is a bit of a "red herring" discussion, somewhat irrelevant to me possibly offering carbon-fiber shafts for the AT-series detectors. Reason being -- since CF tubes have been used for detector shafts for a LONG time, even -- as I said -- on top-tier units, it would seem that me offering folks the option of a CF shaft for their AT-series machines should not be of any concern at all. To me -- someone who has been almost exclusively running detectors that utilize carbon-fiber shafts for the past 10 years -- it seems like it should go without saying that carbon-fiber shafts are a non-issue, in terms of any detrimental effects on detecting.

Thanks!

Steve