Readings on the ATPro out in the Yard today

[Monty]

The weather was in the high 50s with a brisk western wind blowing so I ventured out in the yard to do a little testing with my new ATPro. I guess you would call it static testing as I tested several items, not in the air but on the ground which I thought might be a little more accurate than air testing? To start off I followed the manual instructions for auto ground balance, holding in the GB button and pumping the coil up and down until the background noise was gone. It settled out at a reading of 75. I set the machine on Standard coin mode, Iron Discrimination at 25 and sensitivity six bars (which may have been a little too high)? I ran the coil over the following objects at a speed I would normally use when out hunting a site and then pinpointed just for practice. The only problem I had was that the PP button stuck and I didn't realize it until I tried another object and got a solid tone with no readings. My GTI 2500 did the same thing on occasion I might add. So, here goes for any of you that are waiting on your Pro or those who are just curious it might be something to ponder. The target ID cursor was extremely accurate in IDing what the target my be in all cases. If one ID number was most prevailant it is starred. Bear in mind of course, depending on the conductivity of the ground in your areas the readings may vary some. I'll use the following format on all objects: Mode standard/Coin (on all items): Target composition: Item tested: Tone: Targed ID number.
1. Silver, Peace Dollar, Bell tone, 97-*99. 2. Silver, Kennedy Half Dollar, Bell tone, 90-*92. 3. Silver, Quarter, Bell tone, 88-91. 4. Clad, Quarter, Bell Tone, 88. 5. Silver, Rosi Dime, Bell tone, 82-*83-84. 6. Nickel, 5 cent coin, Mid-tone, solid 53. 7. Aluminum, pulltab, mid-tone, 53-56. 8. Clad, Jefferson small dollar, Bell tone, 86-89. 9. Clad, Sacajuea (sp)small dollar,Bell tone, 86-87. 10. Gold, Man's nugget ring, Mid-tone, 62-*64-64 (only a one way weak tone on coin mode, moved mode to zero, got a solid loud two-way tone). 11. Zinc, U.S. one cent, mid tone, 75. 12. Copper, U.S. cent, mid-tone, 82. 13. Pot metal Masonic Token, Nickel sized, no tone (target I.D. cursor showed up on iron side of scale however). 14. Gilding metal jacketed lead .30 caliber bullet, mid-tone, 72-*75. 15. Brass, old cartridge case, .44 caliber, mid-tone, 68-75. 16. Brass entire cartridge 6.5mm with Jacketed bullet, mid-tone, 68-75. 17. Aluminum, can slaw, Bell tone with bouncing cursor, 68-87. 18. Lead, Circular electric box seal (coin shaped), bell tone, *77-80. 19. Lead, .45-70 405 gr. bullet, mid-tone, (bouncing cursor)65-*66-67.

I couldn't figure out why the lead bullet and lead seal had so much difference. Perhaps it was the shape, as the seal was about the size of a quarter whereas the bullet was oblong? I may retest those two items next time I can get out. It is supposed to be down below freezing for a high the next two days so it may be awhile. I will also test the same items on the Pro mode and see how they stack up against each other. I already know the tones are completely different because of what the manual said and I switched over a couple of times out of curiosity. Monty

 

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[sniffer]

a regular lead seal is lead, a bullet is a mix of lead and other metals

 

[artyfacts]

Thanks Monty for the update. Glad to hear your out and about. Was the pinpoint button difficult to free from the housing? Your lead bullet could be of a different density due to the shape. Arty

 

[Monty]

I just had to push the button again and it poped right out. The buttons are maliable plastic of some kind and when you push them in they tend to bow a little and the sharp edge just got stuck under the opening. I am finally out, but not about too much.
I still have difficulty putting my full weight on my bum knee and use a cane to get around... But it gets little better every day and hope I can discard the cane soon. Monty

 

[JCBankston]

I read from someone on another site that has one of these that the coin mode, has the notch discrimination setup, so that gold gets phased out and not picked up well, as it reads close to pull tabs. FYI

 

[Monty]

Yeah, I figured that out and that's why I switched modes because all I got in coin mode was static. Monty

 

[gleaner1]

a regular lead seal is lead, a bullet is a mix of lead and other metals

Sniffer Elf, you got me going, I have some comments. Regular lead bullets are made from the purest lead possible, with special attention to avoid too much alloy. Nobody would waste really good lead to cast lead seals. What I am trying to say is that lead bullets are typically 95% or better lead content, and I am sure this is true for US civil war era lead. Lead is heavier than the other alloy crap like tin or whatever, so purer is better. All metals have other metals in them, there are no truly pure metals. A good example is the 99.99% pure gold Canada maple leaf coins. They try to get pure, but it is not commercially possible to produce pure or even 99.999% pure gold. As for the 5 or maybe 8 percent alloy in common lead, it doesn't show up more than a few points difference in the detector's brain box. No offense intended, I just wanted to say my two bits. Monty, get a test garden planted.

As a side note, I see the attempts by anti-gun groups to twist epa rules and try to pass laws to ban lead ammunition has recently gone over like a lead balloon. Keep voting everybody!

 

[sniffer]

according to the Bullet Casting Industry Standard, bullets are made up of 92% lead, 6% antimony, 2% tin
lead seals are made from regular casting lead which is soft, so it can be used with a simple hand crimper.
lead from the civil war is known to be contaminated with whatever the mold had stuck in it when they poured,
it was never pure
as far as a ban on lead ammunition, the EPA never had the authority to ban lead, however, lead shot used over
wetlands is banned nationwide and on some federal lands, no lead ammunition is allowed

 

[Monty]

The .45-70 bullet I tested was a "hardened" semiwadcutter type that I special ordered for hunting whitetail deer. I don't know the formula for them but I imagine they have more tin and antimony than a pure lead bullet such as a swaged bullet. They are also heat treated almost back to the melting point which tends to harden them and keep them from being brittle. From my 40+ years experience at handloading all my ammo except .22 LR, I know that "pure lead" bullets cannot be pushed beyond about 750 fps through a rifled barrel without leaving so much lead residue it will foul the bore. Pure lead bullets are swaged rather than melted and poured because of their malibility and they are designed for low velocity use only such as handgun target shooting. Most round balls for muzzleloaders are swaged of soft lead, and when they are loaded a cloth patch is used or more contemporarily, a sabot is used to prevent excessive leading of the bore. Many cast rifle bullets are cast with a copper base plate that tends to scrape the lead fouling from the barrel as it is fired and going down the bore. The alternative is to "hard cast" the bullets also to prevent fouling and heat treated to prevent the bullet from coming apart when it strikes bone in large game. Why are rifle bullets are different? Because of the increased velocity causes more friction on the bullet and will actually melt the lead from heat if the bullet is cast too soft. Nearly all commercially made bullets were soft lead until the advent of smokeless powder with much higher velocities ergo the jacketed bullet came about. I could write a book on this but I will stop now. Monty

 

[Monty]

I don't have the exact weight right here in front of me but it is about the same as the ACE 250. Look on the Garrett Homepage and all the specs are given. MOnty

 

[gleaner1]

How silly of me to try talking bullets and lead with guys like Monty and Sniffer Elf. I will try to get a link to the article I read in a recent NRA mag about the failed bullet law for those interested. Monty, I hope you clean up with that machine. Regards, gleaner

 

[The Master Chief]

I love reading some of these posts. It pretty well tells the story of the detectors performance. WTG Monty. Good luck.

 

[Monty]

I knew about the "failed bullet law". It was an attempt about by some group of antigunner/animal rights people to have the EPA outlaw the use of lead bullets on Federal lands open to hunting. The courts ruled that the agency involved did not have the right to arbitrarily make those decisions. Anything of that nature has to be made law by the senate and house and then signed by the president making it a Federal law. There is presently no support in the government to pass such a law. The use of lead shot for hunting migratory game birds is forbidden by a law already. This law has been in effect for several years. hunters have been using steel shot and/or antimony shot since it's passage. The reason behind it was the claim that lead shot was ingested by feeding migratory game birds causing the death of birds and interfering with their reproduction cycle (much like what the idea was behind outlawing the use of the pesticide DDT). Monty

 

[Ray S ECenFL]

Lots of great info. Thanks for sharing.

Monty, hope you knee gets better soon.


Ray S ECenFL

 

[gallileo60]

The Ace 250 weighs 2.7 lbs - The Ace 350 weighs 2.8 lbs - The ATPro weighs 3.03 lbs - The GTI2500 weighs 4.6 lbs -All very allowable for extended searching. Far better than the old days with non-digital electronics and better circuit boxes.

Thanks for the weights, is that with the coil they come with..I know my Ace 250 with Sniper coil IS SO LITE......I can swing it for hours, and not get tired...Now my old Whites 5500 Series D (which I loved) was HEAVY......

 

[Monty]

I know there are heavier machines, but tje 2500 was really heavy for me.
Even with the 11" coil the AtPro is much lighter. Monty

 

[Jerry-Wi]

I know there are heavier machines, but tje 2500 was really heavy for me.
Even with the 11" coil the AtPro is much lighter. Monty

I felt the same way except I was swinging a Grand Master Hunter. First impression of the At Pro is the balance was coil heavy so I hope to correct that with an armrest extension.

Jerry