AT Pro/gold retro fit handle

[bzbadger]

I am thinking of getting a 15'' coil for my ATPRO, will this help with that and would it be comparable to... say the stock coil or maybe the 5 x 8 for arm fatigue?

I went with the larger coil on mine and my handle basically made that larger coil feel like the difference between the standard coil and the little 5x8 DD. Its how it distributes the weight. The S handle puts all the weight on your pointer finger and uses that small muscle on top of your arm. When you use a straight shaft it uses your whole arm, that top muscle along with your larger forearm muscle..thats how it feels to me..it doesn't feel like all the weight is hanging on your pointer finger the whole time.

 

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[Pennypacker]

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but I don't see how this helps much compared to the stock shaft.

Other then possibly changing the angle of your elbow by a negligible amount (Which can be accomplished by adjusting the factory shaft length), you still have the weight in the exact same spot as the factory shaft.

The practical benefit to a straight shaft is to move the weight below or behind your elbow. This of course does not work well for machines with machines that have a screen with no separate control box to move.

 

[bzbadger]

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but I don't see how this helps much compared to the stock shaft.





Other then possibly changing the angle of your elbow by a negligible amount (Which can be accomplished by adjusting the factory shaft length), you still have the weight in the exact same spot as the factory shaft.





The practical benefit to a straight shaft is to move the weight below or behind your elbow. This of course does not work well for machines with machines that have a screen with no separate control box to move.

No offense but I have taken a great deal of time researching and a lot of trial and error to produce a product that does whether you fail to see it or not, work and work well.

Ask yourself this question, why do all the high dollar and more highly regarded machines have a straight shaft? Why does Anderson shaft make their $180+ shafts straight and not S shaped.

Now answer this question for me please. Are you going to be let's say a bit close-minded to an idea that has already been proven over and over again just because you have difficulty wrapping your mind around the idea?



I don't know exactly how many dozens and dozens of these I've sold and never once had a complaint but rather the opposite, I've received many many thanks for making a product that allows them to enjoy their hobby again. I received a call tonight from someone who bought two and compared his AT Pro with my handle against his AT gold without and a difference of night and day was seen and a big thank you also this person posted here somewhere he said with pictures and plans on showing others in his club.

Try one out.

 

[Pennypacker]

No offense but I have taken a great deal of time researching and a lot of trial and error to produce a product that does whether you fail to see it or not, work and work well.

Ask yourself this question, why do all the high dollar and more highly regarded machines have a straight shaft? Why does Anderson shaft make their $180+ shafts straight and not S shaped.

Now answer this question for me please. Are you going to be let's say a bit close-minded to an idea that has already been proven over and over again just because you have difficulty wrapping your mind around the idea?



I don't know exactly how many dozens and dozens of these I've sold and never once had a complaint but rather the opposite, I've received many many thanks for making a product that allows them to enjoy their hobby again. I received a call tonight from someone who bought two and compared his AT Pro with my handle against his AT gold without and a difference of night and day was seen and a big thank you also this person posted here somewhere he said with pictures and plans on showing others in his club.

Try one out.

Where has it been proven over and over again?

Did you not notice the straight shaft models have the bulk of the weight behind or below the elbow?

All of the research I have done on the subject says the opposite of your claims.

It's easy physics, your shafts do virtually nothing but look different. The balance is the same as the stock shaft.

"S" shafts are made because they are cheap and have an intuitive pistol grip, the handle is essentially free it does not need to be welded on, that is why most detectors, especially all in one units use "S" shafts. It's clever.

Do you really think Anderson is going to develop an "S" curved carbon fiber to sell for $180?
Do you think Anderson would make a "S" shaped aluminum shaft identical to the stock shaft to try and sell?

Anderson makes a nice upgraded shaft for enthusiast who want them, but they don't make any of the grandiose claims that you do.

Unfortunately your trial and error is all error.

Balance is everything, you have not changed the balance.

If you sold a one piece carbon fiber shaft, you might shed enough weight to be worth while, but what you have does virtually nothing for ergonomics.

 

[bzbadger]

I had planned on explaining all of this to you. How I researched the ergonomics how I found out the muscle groups used by speaking with orthopedic doctor and physical rehabilitation techs but I feel you will only berate me more, be even more rude to me on the forum and I know not why nor do I care. You do not know me or my product yet you write with an almost absolute disdain for me.
I feel I do not have to explain myself to anyone so absolutely rude as you. I didn't attack you in any way yet you feel it necessary.
I will not respond to your posts further and may God bless you.

 

[Chad1972]

I haven't tried a different shaft but I could see where just changing the angles that bear the weight on your wrist and elbow would make it feel lighter. Like changing the fulcrum position on a lever makes a difference. But like I said I haven't tried one so I can't (and wouldn't) comment on whether or not it works.

 

[bzbadger]

I haven't tried a different shaft but I could see where just changing the angles that bear the weight on your wrist and elbow would make it feel lighter. Like changing the fulcrum position on a lever makes a difference. But like I said I haven't tried one so I can't (and wouldn't) comment on whether or not it works.

You made the point yourself. Where the S handle puts pressure and forces you to hold the machine at that angle is what causes the fatigue to set in because you use a smaller muscle in your arm to hold the weight up. This comes from taking time to speak with people that know what was causing my pain in my arm and repeated conversations on what was needed to rectify the problem. The angle, the length( which had to be generalized since ppl are different) and the straight shaft itself caused a difference in what muscles are mainly used. Its simple to see once you try it and feel that the weight isn't focused on your pointer/index especially the proximal phalanx area of that finger and of course the extensor muscle which the are two but one seems to be used mostly to hold the machine up. It seems the handle I make utilizes not just that muscle but the flexor muscle(your large forearm muscle) giving you added control and strength.
Am I a doctor nope, I just took time to ask doctors what was causing my pain, what could be done about it and once I got a working prototype done asked would the angles etc work and was told it would relieve the stress on the areas I was hurting.
So there you go..do I have a doctor signing off on the item Nope but if I went that route I wouldn't be charging $65 a piece for them. So there you go , there you have it big boy undies and all. Oh let me mention the most important part and if it costs me every sale I ever make I wouldn't care..there is a God and my faith will not be wavered by a nonbeliever. Plz accept my apology if I was too long in my explanation but no apologies for professing my faith.

 

[Chad1972]

Yeah, you can't take somebody too serious if they don't know the difference between God and the Easter bunny...

 

[Kodiak43351]

Lost me when he said there was no god. I feel sry for him. I wonder if this shaft would help my shoulder. I've been switching arms a lot because right shoulder is injured.

 

[swagman]

Ok here is my 2 cent's.....If I use my stock coil for more then 5 hours straight I start getting pain in my forearm mainly the top muscle down the center. Since reading this thread I tried to understand how a straight shaft would alleviate this and what I figured out is this.....I don't think it is a balance thing with the straight shaft even tho I think if some better balance was incorporated into the shaft then it would work even better.Balance is simple physics, if you add weight to one end of a shaft then you would need to add weight to the opposite end and when I think more about it there could be more in that fact worth looking at to create a working solution, every metal detector has some type of balance issue especially when changing coils.

My conclusion is (I maybe wrong....most likely) is the hand grip itself, instead of gripping the "S" shaft with the fist straight, you are gripping the straight shaft with the fist raised more towards you which in turn takes the tension off the muscle and brings other muscles into play.

I played around doing these 2 different grips for a little while and there is a noticeable change., I have not got one of these shafts but if and when I get my 15'' Nell coil then I would seriously think about getting one.

On a side note, I do not believe in God (I like sci-fi to much lol) but even I will not belittle others who do (We are out numbered big time) and as long as it is not forced down my throat then to all who do believe.......keep the Faith, Hallelujah.

 

[Kodiak43351]

It's called faith and I still have mine. Sry you lost yours.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Pennypacker, your out of line. BZbadger did not attack you, you attacked him.

Your religious rant violates our rules, your attack on BZbadger violates our rules. There is nothing in signature that violates our rules.

Leave the site moderation to the admins and mods.

 

[bzbadger]

Its the angle of the handle in relation to the straight shaft. I actually brought this conversation up with some people in our club who have been using the retro fit handle and how the challenge was posed about my design. Every one of them said they were having issues from detecting for so many years and couldn't hunt for too long because of the abuse but now since switching over they're all hanging with the group all day. I have ppl fresh into detecting looking ahead and not wanting that arm issue and buying and as I've said before not one complaint from anyone, nobody wanting their money back. I felt like I was being called a snake oil salesman for a minute.
Thank you to those ppl who stepped up and said something.

 

[swagman]

As I mentioned earlier ''It's all in the grip" .....at least that's what she said

 

[bzbadger]

As I mentioned earlier ''It's all in the grip" .....at least that's what she said

So it's not how you use it, it's how you hold it? LOL ok I can see that in this case

 

[JimK]

I have read this post front to back a couple of times. Paying close attention to the facts and tossing out the stupid. I have been using my ATPro for a few months and I am starting to get soreness in my shoulder and pain in my elbow to the point that it is effecting my hunts and enjoyment. I tried an elbow brace with little help. I have found a few tricks that help a bit like repositioning my thumb or fingers under the control box for a bit. This helps (kinda like shifting your weight on a long motorcycle trip) but does not solve the problems. I really think that this straight shaft is the way to go and I plan to order one just as soon as I can

JimK

 

[bzbadger]

I have read this post front to back a couple of times. Paying close attention to the facts and tossing out the stupid. I have been using my ATPro for a few months and I am starting to get soreness in my shoulder and pain in my elbow to the point that it is effecting my hunts and enjoyment. I tried an elbow brace with little help. I have found a few tricks that help a bit like repositioning my thumb or fingers under the control box for a bit. This helps (kinda like shifting your weight on a long motorcycle trip) but does not solve the problems. I really think that this straight shaft is the way to go and I plan to order one just as soon as I can

JimK

I tried a lot of stuff and since im not willing to give up detecting I was using a lot of Ben gay and muscle relaxers and luckily I had pain killers from my Lyme disease if you can call that luck but it didn't solve the problem just masked it. I am glad they make the non stinky Ben gay now or my wife wouldn't come to bed

 

[dds]

I tried the straight shaft and I went back to the s shaft it works better for me so I have one if anybody wants it at a big discount

 

[Kodiak43351]

dds pm sent

 

[nathan104]

I know I said I would wait a few months to post a review of this but figured Id give aa quick blurb of my thoughts after just having installed it and swung the detector a little.

First off, its very easy to take off the olds-curve rod and install this new one.

Im not a huge fan of the wrap grip that comes with it and took me a bit to figure out exactly how to install the wrap, but after I did figure it out, while it doesn't seem as comfortable as the original foam grip, its acceptable. Ill probably end up swapping over the foam grip from the old shaft but wanted to make sure I liked this new design before doing that.

Im also not a big fan of using the long lock pin to secure the shaft as it sticks out a good bit on both sides of the shaft. Again, Ill probably end up removing the spring tabs from the old shaft and swapping them to this new shaft to use in place of the lock pin that came with it. I will however say that with the lock pin installed, there is absolutely zero movement or play between the upper and lower shaft.

I wish it would have come with plugs to go in the open ends of the shaft pipe like the plug that comes in the end of the original shaft behind the arm cuff. I tried removing the plug from the original shaft but it did not fit into the open end of the new shaft due to the new shafts thicker walls witch makes the inner diameter smaller. I just don't think it looks very good with the opening of the rod in front of the control box and behind the arm cuff. I guess Ill try some electrical tape over the opening but some plugs would have been great.

Now having said all that above, the initial feel after having installed this and just played around swinging the detector is that it makes a noticeable difference. I honestly didn't expect it would but it absolutely does. IT feels lighter and easier to swing. I was getting golfers elbow(pain to the ligament above the elbow on the inside of the arm) after detecting a lot. Not having put time into this yet, I can not say for sure whether it makes a difference in this area. I will definitely add an update after being able to put the detector to quite a bit of use. Will be a few months though as Im just starting PT for recovery from back surgery.

So far, I am very optimistic with the way it feels swinging the detector just a little bit. It does feel different and in a good way.