To All Treasure Hunters - Our Legal Rights are at Risk! WE NEED YOUR HELP!
Welcome guest, is this your first visit?
Member
Discoveries
 
Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 96
Like Tree4Likes

Thread: To All Treasure Hunters - Our Legal Rights are at Risk! WE NEED YOUR HELP!

« Prev Thread | Next Thread »
  1. #1
    us
    ScubaGecko

    Jun 2004
    Beaufort, SC
    Garrett Sea Hunter Mk II
    1,910
    55 times

    To All Treasure Hunters - Our Legal Rights are at Risk! WE NEED YOUR HELP!

    Dear Fellow Treasure Hunters,

    Even if you do not have any interest in Shipwreck Salvage or the Shipwreck forum, WE NEED YOUR HELP!

    I know this is The General Discussion forum, but Our legal rights for Shipwreck Salvage within State waters are at risk!

    We need your help to show our opposition to the proposed changes to the State of Florida's Rule 1A-31. We are asking everyone, even if you do not live in Florida, to please take a few minutes of your time and send a comment to the State of Florida showing you are against the proposed changes in rule 1A-31 and that you support responsible commercial salvage of historic shipwrecks within Florida's State waters.

    We only have until October 17th so please act soon and get everyone you know to send a comment!

    Please go the to the following link : https://www.flrules.org/Gateway/View...asp?id=6172515

    Scroll down and check Send One Time Comment to the Agency and then click the Make Comment button. Post your own commnets or copy and paste comments from below.

    There are over 20,000 members here at TNet. If we all come together we can stop this legislation. I am not asking for money, just 1 minute of your time. Please copy the comments below (or create your own) and follow the link above. It takes only a few clicks to show your support.

    Thank You!

    Robert Gecy


    1. We are against any rules or regulations that would hinder Florida's responsible historical shipwreck salvors from their continued recovery of treasures and artifacts, such as the current proposed rules.
    2. Under the Revised and Published Rule 1A-31.0092 (3) c, d, e it declares that permit areas shall have a "Buffer Zone" of 500 yards width from: navigation channels, exempted areas as defined in this chapter and excluded areas as defined in this chapter. These areas are defined in 1A-31.0042 and 1A-31.0045. This means no one will get a permit within 500 yards of a public recreation area (i.e. public beach) which translates to about one fourth of a mile from any Florida shoreline. The entire coastline of Florida is off limits for 1500 feet. This is not fair because history shows us that the majority of shipwrecks were blown toward or onto shore by hurricanes. The vast majority of shipwrecks on Florida's submerged lands are probably included within this area. It also means no one (without a grandfathered in Admiralty Claim) will get a permit within 500 yards of any inland waters, inlets, National Park systems, National Marine Sanctuaries such as the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary), State Parks, Local public recreation areas, resource conservation areas and resource management areas, areas conveyed to public or private entities............. etc.

    3. We believe the Division of Historical Resources should do more to work with the private sector salvors of Florida and encourage salvors to come into a fair, even handed and just permit process. Rule 1A-31 does not seek to do this.

    4. We believe Florida's private sector salvors have done an excellent job of recovering and preserving our maritime heritage, to the direct benefit of the public and at little cost to the taxpayers and should be allowed to continue with as little interference as possible. Rule 1A-31 does not do this.

    5. We do not want our tax dollars used by state archaeologists to dive on shipwrecks. The private sector salvors have done a great job, using their own money, with Florida getting the benefits by receiving 20% of the conserved artifacts and treasures recovered. We do not support any changes to rule 1A-31 that would make it harder for the salvors to continue.

    6. We feel the new rule is unfair because it treats commercial salvors as second class citizens due to the fact that it does not give the same standards to commercial salvors as Rule 1A-32 gives to universities and nonprofit organizations. For example, the turnover or response time to get permits for 1A-32 is two weeks while commercial groups have waited months and in some cases, years. Also 1A-32 uses students as excavators while commercial enterprises must use experts.

    7. We think Rule 1A-31 is unfair because university and nonprofit 1A‐32 permit holders get a search & survey, recovery & salvage permit ALL in their first permit while 1A-31 requires commercial salvors to obtain only search & survey permits with rules that vary from salvor to salvor. NO recovery & salvage permits (unless already grandfathered in by Federal Admiralty Claims) have been issued to commercial groups in Florida for over 15 years.

    8. We are opposed to the rule because individuals who have current contracts for exploration have not all been individually notified of the workshops and hearings. It is also unfair that when they are notified, the locations of such meetings repeatedly take place at locations remote to the majority of the private and commercial entities that it will affect. Therefore, if a few dozen commercial groups from the Keys want to attend, they need to drive either 9 hours to St. Augustine area or 12 hours to the Tallahassee area (and back.) This means they have to miss THREE days work to attend. Two days driving and one day at the meetings. Future meetings should be held in a central location of the state such as the Orlando area to accommodate the majority of thestakeholders. Additionally, these meetings should not be held between June 1 and Sept 30th of any year, as that is the 120 day window for good weather conditions on the majority of the archaeological sites worked by commercial salvors in Florida.

    9. We are opposed to the rule because it insists that an archaeologist be on board each salvage vessel during each and every survey and excavation. This is unnecessary because most electronic surveys are non‐intrusive and the majority of actual excavation areas are empty or turn out to be modern intrusions such as lawn chairs, discarded shrimp or lobster traps, beer cans and in some cases, U.S. military bombs in old target practice areas. Of course when major conglomerates of shipwreck material or structure are found, it would then be appropriate for the archaeologist to be on board to supervise the proper mapping and recording of these areas The reality is that the majority of the archaeologist's time is spent working with a cartographer, mapping and analyzing data collected during remote sensing surveys and identifying patterns from other known sites in an effort to decide which anomalies to excavate first, and writing reports after poring through the reams of data provide by the artifact recovery process. His presence on the site is not necessary until significant cultural deposits or structures are encountered.

    10. The new rule should address some sort of Annual Adjudication of Title from the State to the permit holder rather than "Transfer of objects" in exchange for recovery services. This way, the state can receive donations of artifacts, because it is usually impossible to put an actual dollar value on each and every artifact found and this would create much confusion in tax law since the transfer of object has an indeterminable value.

    11. This rule creates more work and overhead for DHR to manage their resources. Permits should be issued for a minimum of three years, much like the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary, thereby alleviating costs to the DHR by reducing paperwork.

    12. We feel this rule is unfair because commercial salvors are constantly in the research and development stages of using new technology for survey, excavation and conservation much of which is proprietary information. This rule eliminates many future possibilities and opportunities for research, development and testing of these new technologies.

    13. We feel this rule is unfair because it requires the permit holder to turn over thousands of dollars worth of proprietary surveyresults without any guarantee that they will be allowed to salvage a site once it is found. There is no incentive for the permit holder to obtain a survey & exploration permit. An alternative would be to use wording similar to that in the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary, which does not even require a "Survey & Exploration" permit at all and yet it seems to have been beneficial.

  2. #2
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    14,603
    11894 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: To All Treausre Hunters - Our Legal Rights are at Risk! WE NEED YOUR HELP!

    HIO, As usual, this will also bleed over to land treasures. Once one state does it, the others follow rapidly. . So get to cracking peeps, if you wish to keep detecting. After all, coins minted before 1956, are archaeologically classified thingies and so you are committing a crime by digging one up. Next year it will be coins prior to 1957 and so on each year.

    Detecting is only as strong as it's weakest link. Destroy it one link at a time.

    Don Jose de La Mancha



    ----------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------

    An Explorer of History in North Western Mexico


    ivan salisda book worm--researcher

    Posts: 4976
    callahan,fl
    Detector used:
    current ace 250 --( BH also) used many others too





    REPORT POST Nominate For Banner
    Re: Notice of Development of Rulemaking, Chapter 1A-31, Exploration and Salvage of H
    Reply To This Topic #48 Posted Yesterday at 06:56:56 PM Quote
    correct real me amingo --we must hang together before we are hung one at a time. Ivan


    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  3. #3
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    14,603
    11894 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: To All Treausre Hunters - Our Legal Rights are at Risk! WE NEED YOUR HELP!

    After all, coins minted before 1956, are archaeologically classified thingies and so you are committing a crime by digging one up. Next year it will be coins prior to 1957 and so on each year.



    hummm... I wonder what would happen if you called them up and said, "Hello, I was metal detecting and found some coins. When I got home and cleaned them I noticed one of the coins, a penny, was minted in 1953 and qualifies as an archaeological find. Would you please send someone over right away to pick it up."

    Historic Preservation
    500 S. Bronough Street
    Tallahassee, FL 32399-0250
    (850) 245-6333
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  4. #4
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    14,603
    11894 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: To All Treausre Hunters - Our Legal Rights are at Risk! WE NEED YOUR HELP!

    ivan salisda book worm--researcher

    Posts: 4976
    callahan,fl
    Detector used:
    current ace 250 --( BH also) used many others too





    REPORT POST Nominate For Banner
    Re: Notice of Development of Rulemaking, Chapter 1A-31, Exploration and Salvage of H
    Reply To This Topic #51 Posted Yesterday at 09:20:40 PM Quote
    as yes the famous "older than 50 year rule* stupid isn't it? accord to that rule ALL WHEAT PENNIES WILL SOON BE ARCHAEOLOGOGICAL FINDS since the last wheat cents were made in 1959* and next year is 2009 --yep 50 years old -- and at that rate in 2014 all 1964 and before 90% silver coins will be archaeological finds thus by law illegal to keep * and by 2020 even the 1970 silver 40% halves will be archaeological finds a mere 11 1/3 years from now only crap clad will be offically "legal" to keep as finds at this rate----
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  5. #5
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    14,603
    11894 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: To All Treausre Hunters - Our Legal Rights are at Risk! WE NEED YOUR HELP!

    Reply To This Topic #54 Posted Today at 06:17:57 AM Quote
    I agree with a lot of what GFH says.This is a perfect time to mount an assault against any
    special interest groups that are trying to take away our rights.With the financial mess that's
    going on ,and the public's outrage with all the pork-barrel spending by special interest groups
    that have put us in this mess,I can't believe an agency of the government trying to eleminate
    a group of people who are willing to finance projects with their own money,and take all the
    risks.I don't believe the public wants to take money from public projects,and even education,
    and pay for publicly funded salvors,when private enterprise is already doing the job for free,
    plus the state get's a cut.Once the public sees the insanity of this,I hope they will come down
    hard on these special interest groups.We just need to shine the light on what they are doing
    behind the scene.A government of the people,by the people,and FOR THE PEOPLE. HH Joe
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  6. #6
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    14,603
    11894 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: To All Treausre Hunters - Our Legal Rights are at Risk! WE NEED YOUR HELP!

    Agreed, it is a perfect time. Most Archaeological depts will be finding that their funding is being cut or even eliminated. They might understand that their best chance for work is to encourage exploration and recoveries on both land and sea.

    They just might be willing to foment a review of the present laws in order to encourage exploration, which means more work opportunities for them. If we work together, it will be far better for both private salvage and Archaeological ends.

    If things go down the drain, they will quickly learn on which side of their bread the butter is.

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  7. #7
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    14,603
    11894 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: To All Treausre Hunters - Our Legal Rights are at Risk! WE NEED YOUR HELP!

    Quote from: ivan salis on Yesterday at 09:20:40 PM
    as yes the famous "older than 50 year rule* stupid isn't it? accord to that rule ALL WHEAT PENNIES WILL SOON BE ARCHAEOLOGOGICAL FINDS since the last wheat cents were made in 1959* and next year is 2009 --yep 50 years old -- and at that rate in 2014 all 1964 and before 90% silver coins will be archaeological finds thus by law illegal to keep * and by 2020 even the 1970 silver 40% halves will be archaeological finds a mere 11 1/3 years from now only crap clad will be offically "legal" to keep as finds at this rate----


    Yes, I just had a thought too...what about all the landfills and garbage dumps that are older than 50 years? Are they going to become archaeological sites of the future? Or does that mean they already...perhaps going to be off limits?

    Voter roll purging...did you just see some of the news headlines? Hard to believe what I just read...how can they eliminate over 1 million registered voters from Indiana? it is my state, what's the deal here...
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  8. #8
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    14,603
    11894 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: To All Treausre Hunters - Our Legal Rights are at Risk! WE NEED YOUR HELP!

    HI The above posts were copied from the series in "shipwreck" We must stick rogether or else you can hang up your detector shortly.

    Don Jose de La Mancha .
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  9. #9
    us
    Jul 2008
    East Jordan, Michigan
    Minelab Etrac & Quattro
    1,269
    14 times
    Honorable Mentions (1)

    Re: To All Treausre Hunters - Our Legal Rights are at Risk! WE NEED YOUR HELP!

    left my comments for the state of Florida.
    Mark

  10. #10
    us
    Jul 2006
    Pennsylvania
    XP Deus Minelab Equinox 800 GPX 4500
    2,463
    840 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Banner Finds (1)

    Re: To All Treasure Hunters - Our Legal Rights are at Risk! WE NEED YOUR HELP!

    Done - Good luck with your efforts.

    Brian
    Stand up for what's right, even if your standing alone.

    "Politics is the entertainment division of the military industrial complex."
    Frank Zappa

  11. #11
    us
    Apr 2006
    Bellevue, WA
    Minelab Explorer SE, Tesoro TigerShark
    5,736
    21 times

    Re: To All Treasure Hunters - Our Legal Rights are at Risk! WE NEED YOUR HELP!

    Made my comment.
    Anyone can make life interesting you just have to go out there and do things instead of sitting on your butt doing nothing. Second quote: Life is about trying new things not just standing around.

  12. #12
    us
    Mar 2006
    Upper Bucks County,PA
    Tesoro UMax Silver
    144
    1 times

    Re: To All Treasure Hunters - Our Legal Rights are at Risk! WE NEED YOUR HELP!

    Hi Robert. I left my comment. I hope that everything works out for those who wish to hunt shipwrecks. It seems like all of our freedoms are slowly being taken away. Mosey
    Dig  For Fun....Dig For Profit
    Metal Detecting Is The Greatest Hobby In The World!!!    Can You Dig It!

  13. #13
    LandStar

    Re: To All Treasure Hunters - Our Legal Rights are at Risk! WE NEED YOUR HELP!

    My comments were sent to the link given. I am fully against any laws that take away from our great hobby...


    Thanks for the info,

    Robert
    AKA - LandStar


  14. #14

    Feb 2005
    35
    2 times

    Re: To All Treasure Hunters - Our Legal Rights are at Risk! WE NEED YOUR HELP!

    We must either hang together or we will surely hang separately.

    Good Luck,
    Bob

  15. #15
    us
    Oct 2007
    Westmont IL
    Whites Prism IV
    168

    Re: To All Treasure Hunters - Our Legal Rights are at Risk! WE NEED YOUR HELP!

    My comment has been made.
    Man is mother natures sole mistake.

 

 
Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast

Home | Forum | Active Topics | What's New

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.3.0