Searching for lost graves

[corklabus]

In my local area there is some lost Civil War graves that have not been marked. Considering the "tabboo" of detecting near any type of interment, I'm looking for tips that would be beneficial in locating these places without causing any sort of disturbance. At least on my part anyway.
We have a pretty close idea what mountain side they are on and what headquarters they are near. My part is basically going to be visually locating possible sites and then convincing the Park Service to attempt the verifications by whatever means they have available.
All we want to do is at least give these forgotten men a grave marker out of respect for their sacrifice. I personally don't want to see them disturbed for identification purposes, but that would not be up to me unless I just didn't contribute to making the locations. But I feel these men deserve their recognition.
So......what possible clues could there be to look for in the woods and what time of year would be best if not early winter?

 

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[Charlie P. (NY)]

Ground penetrating radar is about the only thing that might detect the bones or soil variations from a grave without disturbing the soil. Even a relatively shallow grave is beyond a conventional metal detector. And a deep hit on a small bit of metal is no promise of a grave/body until it is dug.

 

[corklabus]

Thanks, but the technicalities will be provided by State sponsored officials. What I'm asking for is tips that may visually lead me to visually identify possible sites.
In asking this, I mean for those of us who spend many hours in the woods interpreting nature to expound on what might lead a reasonable mind to believe that a given set of circumstances might lead to a probable place.
We do NOT know if the graves were in one given area or spread out separately and we also don't know exactly how the camp of over 1,000 men was layed out. We are trying to determine the layout of the camp now in relation to water supply and Cavalry forage needs.
Where could a person possibly be buried on a rocky wooded mountain side ? Would they try to use some sort of "landmark" for later recovery ? Obviously not ALL casualties were buried permanently and many were recovered and moved or even sent home. These poor men were caught in the middle of forward and back movements from BOTH sides and under extremely nasty, sloppy weather conditions.
The thing here is that The State isn't going to cover that whole mountain side, but they HAVE consented to screening a small "area" or individual sites,providing I can narrow it down enough to satisfy their curiousity with reasonable presentation of what might be there.

 

[sqwaby]

I'd start by looking in areas that have the least amount of slope and the least amount of rock. Also look for small shallow depressions where the soil over the graves may have settled.

 

[Siegfried Schlagrule]

You could stone age the search by using a probe to find areas of disturbed earth. You could ask any utility worker to show you how to use bent welding rods to find fault lines and underground disturbances through rudimentary dowsing. You could buy ready made cheap coat hanger dowsing rods on ebay and practice in a marked cemetery until you know how to find graves. You could invest $20,000 plus in Ground Penetrating Radar equipment. Since you say that you will not be digging I'd go the cheapest route and let the archies verify with the expensive equipment.
Some police departments can be coaxed into using their CSI department's GPRs if the search area is small enough to be covered in a day they can do it as a training exercise for their people. I don't know enough to say whether someone would have to mow the area first. good luck and god bless, siegfried schlagrule

 

[SHERMANVILLE ILLINOIS]

The answer is Dowsing.

have a good un........................
SHERMANVILLE

 

[CWnut]

Depending on how fast men were dying there may be individual graves or a mass grave(s). Graves are usually dug with the foot pointed East. I would first check all the low hilltops. Get on your hands and knees to look along the ground for shallow impressions, especially when the sun is low. Even walking with a pair of thin soled shoes you may sometimes feel subtle differences in the ground. Usually officers were the only ones reburied after the war as enlisted men's families usually had neither the means or any idea where their loved ones were buried, except maybe just a general location.

As an after thought, if soldiers were buried by the conquering forces they may have all been put into one grave and dirt piled back on it creating a mound. And I remember reading somewhere where the dead were thrown down a well just to keep from digging graves..

 

[packerbacker]

I'm with sqwaby. Ask yourself, where would you bury someone if it was rocky, woodsy and hilly? You wouldn't want to carry bodies very far, uphill especially, so the location would be close to the encampment. You may also look for piles of, or unatural-looking arrangements of rocks. They could have been used as markers or put there to protect a shallow grave. Soldiers killed in battle were most often buried on the spot so, where did the battles take place? If known, those sites are probably off limits to any excavation. If you are looking for bodies of individuals that died at the "fort", look close by, very close. Good luck.

 

[corklabus]

These are most definitely the type of items I need to prime my brain before spending time in the woods. Great stuff guys.
There were no battles of record at this location. No skirmishes are mentioned in the records either. All they did was sit on separate ridges of the same mountain and look at each other. That seems odd, but the weather was so very cold mixed with rain and snow and mud not much could have been done. Union followed confederates and used their deserted camp to set up camp. Weather and supplies forced Union to pull back to previous supply camp. Confederates followed and moved back into the same camp. Confederates then tried to follow Union and attack, but were defeated and driven out of the area by a differenty route.
The deaths in question were supposedly due to typhoid, flu and pnumonia. Any battle wounded deaths were not specifically mentioned, but may have been possible due to infections or whatever.
I'm thinking that the graves may be located in "patches" of maybe two or three at most and probably several singles scattered around depending on where they were located within the encampment. I'm not expecting any "mass" type graves, but being that there are 13 supposedly up there, they hopefully are reasonably close to each other.
I've heard a few tails about dowsing, but never had any interest in the practice. As A child, I know my uncle was able to locate water and dug the family wells according to it, but that's the most I know about it and in this day and age, even though it could very possibly work, the life I've led probably wouldn't let me put any serious faith in it.
I would also be opposed to the probe idea simply because I do not wish to create a disturbance of any kind. I might feel a rock, but it could be a belt buckle or skull.
I just wouldn't feel comfortable poking something I can't see because the graves could be extemely shallow.
Speaking of shallow.......I'm really afraid they could have been raided by animals if precautions weren't taken. Hopefully they were and I hope I can find enough evidence of that to convince the authorities it's worth taking a closer look.

 

[packerbacker]

My sons work for a phone company and they use dowsing quite often. One of them used the technique to locate the path of a underground electrical cable from the pole to his house. Worked fine and he only used one rod.

 

[ArkieGold]

There is a local Confederate grave site a few miles from our town that vandals destroyed the marker. We don't know exactly where it is but 72Cheyenne and I constructed a new marker from cut stone and plan to take it up there and at least place it in the vacinity. I hear that a Discovery TF 900 two box will detect variances in soil compaction and voids. Perhaps it will help detect graves as well.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Thanks, but the technicalities will be provided by State sponsored officials. What I'm asking for is tips that may visually lead me to visually identify possible sites.
In asking this, I mean for those of us who spend many hours in the woods interpreting nature to expound on what might lead a reasonable mind to believe that a given set of circumstances might lead to a probable place.
We do NOT know if the graves were in one given area or spread out separately and we also don't know exactly how the camp of over 1,000 men was layed out. We are trying to determine the layout of the camp now in relation to water supply and Cavalry forage needs.
Where could a person possibly be buried on a rocky wooded mountain side ? Would they try to use some sort of "landmark" for later recovery ? Obviously not ALL casualties were buried permanently and many were recovered and moved or even sent home. These poor men were caught in the middle of forward and back movements from BOTH sides and under extremely nasty, sloppy weather conditions.
The thing here is that The State isn't going to cover that whole mountain side, but they HAVE consented to screening a small "area" or individual sites,providing I can narrow it down enough to satisfy their curiousity with reasonable presentation of what might be there.

Ah.

Hereabouts cemetaries are likely to be in spots too difficult to plow but well above the 100 year floodstage. Drummels from glacier run-off, steep hilsides, northern-facing slopes (south-facing are for planting and putting homes on).

In need they were probably buried near where they fell. There were contractors hired after the war to locate and re-inter the bodies or try and identify them for transfer home. The rest went in communal graves and, as you are likely looking for, were missed and forgotten. Big sites would have been remembered or noticed and found, so you're looking for what are likely small, haphazard graves with little rhyme or reason.

I doubt there is a "Burial For Dummies" book around so there may not be a plan in the digger's mind, and any two may have different ideas. Just a soft spot away from roots and big rocks. Marked with a wood cross - gone in five or ten years - or cairn of rocks, maybe. Much of the Civil War was fought near towns that already had designated cemetaries, so "light" casualties may have been transported there or to church grounds. Always a good thing to be buried in hallowed ground. Though without a family's care the marker may have been minimal or cheap (wood).

 

[Siegfried Schlagrule]

You only need to probe a few inches deep to tell if you are pushing through virgin ground or previously dug ground. If it's been dug it feels loose no matter what you do to level it. Single rods can and do work. Double rods are easier for some new people because it is so obvious when the rods cross over each other or fly apart. There's no wondering on whether there is a void there. siegfried schlagrule

 

[corklabus]

SWR......That's the first question I asked myself in trying to research this thing. So far the only documentation refering to it is in the local County history that applies to the Civil War.
The particular campsites in question have merely been glossed over and barely mentioned because no battles of consequence happened there or within even twenty miles.
There just seems to be no other information available, other than locals swearing to be damned they are up on that hill somewhere.
This may "give the feeling" of graves being there while a person is in the area, but just to be there without having the knowledge of the story never gave me that "feeling" when I've been there countless times before.
State and Federal Park officials all know of the situation as well as the DNR and yet nothing has been done to prove or dis-prove the story. Therefore IF I can come up with something to spur them into a fruitful action is what I am attempting to do.
All I need to do is come up with convincing "evidence" before they will commit to anything needing funding. They are however also trying to track down any possible paper trail there may be, but so far no results.
Someone earlier mentioned trying to involve one of the Colleges of forensics, which may be a great idea, but I'm sure even they would want "something" to go on before becoming involved even for teaching purposes.

 

[Siegfried Schlagrule]

One reason graves get lost is that they are not in a known cemetery. Another reason is that during the war they used a wooden cross made of limbs or barn siding. Those things are not treated to withstand the weather and ground and at the end of the war many had fallen down or rotted to the point of being illegible. There were few organizations that worked to preserve the graves back then. It was usually done by the families. When you didn't die near your family they didn't often travel very far to visit you.
In the case of paupers cemeteries they rarely marked the graves at all and simply dug a hole anywhere. If they hit remains they may or may not have moved to a different spot. siegfried schlagrule

 

[deepskyal]

Some years ago, I attempted to detect an area that had been a civil war hospital with a lot of beds and soldiers.

Surely, one would think a few had died there.

The archies did sponser a few digs in an attempt to verify the hospitals existance and possibly find burried soldiers.....

They found buttons, buckles...your typical cw stuff....but no bodies. But...you are talking a large expansive area and they concentrated on only a couple spots. And they dug deep...maybe 4 to 5 feet in places.

Maybe back in 1980 technology wasn't available to find buried people. But to date...none have been found and I'm pretty sure the archies gave up on it.


If you're looking for graves...after all this time...there probably isn't a trace left. It'll be random luck finding exact spots in a large area.

Just my opinion.

Al

 

[Tomas Frijole]

When I was a kid in the 50's my mother would take us to an abandoned lumberjack graveyard from the 1800's that she said an uncle was buried in. The area was a state rec area by then and was planted with pines by the CCC's in the 1930's.

They were buried in rows mostly in coffins and the sunken graves made the rows look rippled and stuck right out. Some were sunken in about 10 inches and some about 2. She said the deep ones where from coffins decaying and the shallow ones were people buried in shrouds.

But when eyeing the ground, looking in a temporary hospital or rest situation, say a group was buried in shrouds in a row, that should have the shallow rippled look. If they were on the move they would bury them along the roadside which is likely the same main road now. Battle site graves where mostly mass graves with mounds or a clearing near a big old tree with rocks marking boundries to make easier to find later.

Around 1985 in VA when widening a state road they found "Johnny" about 5 feet out from the road shoulder. It was decided to rebury Johnny as VA's unknown confederate soldier in Culpepper Battlefield, about a mile from where Johnny was found. Johnny was buried (and reburied) in a jacket with 27th VA INF (Stonewall Brigade) buttons, which was my unit too, so we got to be Johnnys' Honor Guard. He would of been paved over if he wasn't found.

Hope you get to make something like that happen! If anyone is in the area stop and give him a RIP.

 

[corklabus]

A hospital area within the camp is something I've totally overlooked. Certainly if more than a couple were really sick, they would have a designated area of sorts, since they supposedly had "medics" and "ministers". It's doubtful I could ever determine such an area, but it's definitely something to keep in mind.
Depressions of some nature will probably one of the main clues to where these graves may be. Hopefully there will be other common sense clues in nature that will eventually lead to them.

 

[wvwildman]

did ya ever locate the graves