Pepper spray

[Goodyguy]

I just bought pepper spray today, first time in 59 years. Harbor Freight had a deal $5.99
Going to add it to my arsenal to use in case I run out of bullets.

I have always relied on my wits and skills for the non lethal confrontations, but all the talk about pepper spray had me curious so I bought some hoping I never need to use it or my 357 for self protection.

GG~

http://www.guba.com/watch/3000127715

 

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[RON (PA)]

I always carry it.

 

[Roadquest]

40 cal. semi auto S&W Hi Point. Ya cheap and heavy. But no miss fires after firing over 200 rounds.
Never fire you weapon at anyone, or any animal, unless you know your are in eminent danger.
If some fokes are comfortable with Pepper spray as their "weapon" then that's what you should carry.

RQ

 

[Drache]

And then there are the members like me who are from Canada....

Pepper Spray - Prohibited (we can have dog spray and bear spray but you can get into really serious trouble using them on a human even if defending yourself)

Handguns - Restricted (no CCW, must have a restricted weapons license, can only take them from the house to the range and back against with no stopping in between and only after getting permission from the government and they must be locked up 24/7 unless AT the range shooting)

Tasers - Prohibited (we can own cattleprods but just like the pepper spray we can't use them on a person)

Knives - Undecided (technically the only knives that are illegal are push knives, automatic knives, etc but it's up to a police officer's choice if you are caught carrying one)

Bulletproof Vests - Currently legal (but some government groups are trying to make them illegal for civilians)

Brass Knuckles - Prohibited

Have I missed anything for self preservation?

 

[Goodyguy]

Drache,

I am not sure where you stand on the self protection issue. But after reading your post I thought I would do a little research into how the strict handgun laws in Canada have affected the murder rate by handgun use, since the laws went into effect in 2003.

When the Canadian gun laws went into effect in 2003 there were 109 murders that year by handgun.
In 2007 the rate was up to 188 murders by handgun. I could not find the statistics for 2008.
To me it does not look like the stricter gun laws have helped to reduce criminal murder. I believe criminals will use handguns to commit murder no mater what the laws are.

In 2007 there were 3,869 handgun murders in the United States.

What does this all mean? To me it means, I probably don't need a handgun for protection in Canada as much as I do here in the US.



"May all your treasures be great and all your troubles be small",

Goodyguy~

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

And then there are the members like me who are from Canada....

Pepper Spray - Prohibited (we can have dog spray and bear spray but you can get into really serious trouble using them on a human even if defending yourself)

Handguns - Restricted (no CCW, must have a restricted weapons license, can only take them from the house to the range and back against with no stopping in between and only after getting permission from the government and they must be locked up 24/7 unless AT the range shooting)

Tasers - Prohibited (we can own cattleprods but just like the pepper spray we can't use them on a person)

Knives - Undecided (technically the only knives that are illegal are push knives, automatic knives, etc but it's up to a police officer's choice if you are caught carrying one)

Bulletproof Vests - Currently legal (but some government groups are trying to make them illegal for civilians)

Brass Knuckles - Prohibited

Have I missed anything for self preservation?

In the U.S. we have a saying: "It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by six."

A Lesche tool is a good blocker, stabber, trapper handheld weapon, and some of the Minelabs may serve as a clumsy tonfa. Out in the boonies a solid relic shovel would be better than a sharp stick. ;-)

I took karate in college and stuck with it long enough to achieve a yellow belt, but that wouldn't help much with a bear. And if someone's going to rob me it's definately easier and cheaper to give them the detector than what the defense would cost in court. But if I judge me or mine is in danger it's fangs out and what happens in the woods gets buried in the woods.

 

[Drache]

Drache,

I am not sure where you stand on the self protection issue. But after reading your post I thought I would do a little research into how the strict handgun laws in Canada has affected the murder rate by handgun use, since the laws went into effect in 2003.

When the Canadian gun laws went into effect in 2003 there were 109 murders that year by handgun.
In 2007 the rate was up to 188 murders by handgun. I could not find the statistics for 2008.
Does not look like gun the laws helped any to me, because criminals will use handguns no mater what the law says.

In 2007 there were 3,869 handgun deaths in the United States. Of course that figure includes deaths by self defense and police justifiable homicides and suicides as well.

What does this all mean? To me it means, I probably don't a handgun for protection in Canada as much as I need one here in the US.

"May all your treasures be great and all your troubles be small",

Goodyguy~

Goodguy, I believe every person should have the right to protect themselves. Our Customs Agents only recently in the past couple years were finally allowed to carry sidearms to protect themselves. Working security I've been attacked a couple times with no way to defend myself as Canadian Security laws give us LESS power than the average civilian. If I, as a security guard, strike someone, I am held to a higher standard than the average person in terms of assault even when trying to detain someone. At the same time a security guard in Canada cannot technically "arrest" someone, hell a security guard in Canada cannot even use handcuffs or carry a flashlight that takes more than "two C or D cell batteries". Simply put all our security are really allowed to do in Canada is observe and then call the local police force.

In a local city in my province there were 14 murders in 12 days of gang bangers who were having shootouts in the streets during midday.

In Canada we also need a license just to buy ammunition for our firearms.

And our gun laws and gun registry are much older than 2003, the NEW registry was started in 2003.

Remember as well, the population of the United States 303,824,640, For Canada 33,212,696. Now figure it out this way, In the United States there is technically almost 34 people per square kilometer, for Canada it works out to only 4 people per Kilometer.

 

[greydigger]

It has been suggested (and I like the idea) to carry a squirt gun with ammonia and shoot at the face.
Much cheaper than pepper spray and maybe legal in more places.
Just have to find a good squirt gun that doesn't leak.

Grey

 

[Goodyguy]

It has been suggested (and I like the idea) to carry a squirt gun with ammonia and shoot at the face.
Much cheaper than pepper spray and maybe legal in more places.
Just have to find a good squirt gun that doesn't leak.

Grey

A few drops of concentrated ammonia in the eyes may cause damage. Exposure to larger amounts of liquid ammonia in the eyes causes severe eye damage and can lead to blindness. You could be open to lawsuit.

WARNING !!!
Under no circumstances add bleach to the ammonia!
Do not breath or get any on your skin because the two chemicals combine to form chlorine gas.
This is what happens to your respiratory system when you inhale chlorine gas.
The gas tears into your nasal passages, trachea, and lungs by causing massive cellular damage. Obviously, chlorine gas causes a very painful death and within minutes of exposure if the concentration is high enough.

A violent assault occurs every 15 seconds in the US and carrying defensive sprays are a potent self defense weapon and are safer than guns. Pepper spray is non lethal except under a few rare circumstances, depending on pre-existing medical conditions. There is rarely long term vision damage.

GG~

 

[Drache]

WARNING !!!
Under no circumstances add bleach to the ammonia!
Do not breath or get any on your skin because the two chemicals combine to form chlorine gas.
This is what happens to your respiratory system when you inhale chlorine gas.
The gas tears into your nasal passages, trachea, and lungs by causing massive cellular damage. Obviously, chlorine gas causes a very painful death and within minutes of exposure if the concentration is high enough.

I certainly hope no one is that... silly....

Bleach and Brake Fluid is another very big NO NO!

 

[greydigger]

I have not yet looked/found pure ammonia in the store.
Would not want to do serious harm so was thinking the stuff I use on clothes.
Wonder what the mix with water should be to incapacitate and not maim?
Hope someone can let me know please, I am liking this nonlethal idea.

Worst scenario is a .45 to people or pets. Lions and Tigers and Bears - Oh Kay.

Found the squirt gun. A little spray bottle from the dollar store. Can be mist or spray or total closed.

Drache - is bleach allowed in Canada?

 

[Monty]

If you are carrying a handgun with the intention of protecting yourself from grizzly bear you wil get hurt unless it is at least a .44 magnum with solids. And that is borderline and would probably take multiple hits to stop one. Outfitters and those who guide in fishing trips in bear areas nearly always carry a repeating 12 guage shotgun with slugs. With human predators, I wouldn't carry anything less than a .357 magnum in a revolver, and nothing less than a .38 Super in a pistol. With human predators it is more of where you hit them than the size of the bullet that causes death however. For sheer stopping power, the afore mentioned calibers are probably desirable because of the amount of energy they generate. I have seen large men killed on the spot with a tiny .22 that was in the head. And contrarily I saw another man that was shot six times in the chest with a .22 and he was walking around and talking. I saw a fellow officer that was shot dead instantly with a .25 ACP that hit his heart. A great tragedy and a freak thing since there are any number of people walking around with .25 ACP bullets lodged in various parts of their bodies. It is a terrible thing to shoot someone and even worse to be shot by someone. Carrying a weapon capable of killing someone is an awsome responsibility and you have to be willing to live with the consequences. Even if it is justifiable it is a terrible experience to go through. I carried that responsibility for over 21 years as a daily part of my life and thank God I never had to shoot anyone, but I was willing and able if I had to. So many of us are not capable of that responsibility. So think it over hard and long before you decide to take that responsibility. I am not saying don't do it, I am just trying to illustrate that some people are just not cut out to shoulder that awsome weight. Me? I carry a .45 ACP. I would feel naked without it after years of carrying. Monty

 

[Drache]

Drache - is bleach allowed in Canada?

Only with a special license....

 

[truckinbutch]

If you are carrying a handgun with the intention of protecting yourself from grizzly bear you wil get hurt unless it is at least a .44 magnum with solids. And that is borderline and would probably take multiple hits to stop one. Outfitters and those who guide in fishing trips in bear areas nearly always carry a repeating 12 guage shotgun with slugs. With human predators, I wouldn't carry anything less than a .357 magnum in a revolver, and nothing less than a .38 Super in a pistol. With human predators it is more of where you hit them than the size of the bullet that causes death however. For sheer stopping power, the afore mentioned calibers are probably desirable because of the amount of energy they generate. I have seen large men killed on the spot with a tiny .22 that was in the head. And contrarily I saw another man that was shot six times in the chest with a .22 and he was walking around and talking. I saw a fellow officer that was shot dead instantly with a .25 ACP that hit his heart. A great tragedy and a freak thing since there are any number of people walking around with .25 ACP bullets lodged in various parts of their bodies. It is a terrible thing to shoot someone and even worse to be shot by someone. Carrying a weapon capable of killing someone is an awsome responsibility and you have to be willing to live with the consequences. Even if it is justifiable it is a terrible experience to go through. I carried that responsibility for over 21 years as a daily part of my life and thank God I never had to shoot anyone, but I was willing and able if I had to. So many of us are not capable of that responsibility. So think it over hard and long before you decide to take that responsibility. I am not saying don't do it, I am just trying to illustrate that some people are just not cut out to shoulder that awsome weight. Me? I carry a .45 ACP. I would feel naked without it after years of carrying. Monty

Being willing is so much a part of surviving . Movies glorify dramatic shootouts and the hero's casual comments afterward .
NOOOOTTT ! Shakey adrenaline letdown , crap and urine soiling your own clothing from the inside out dehumanizing you even if you won
, and then dealing with the legal and moral issues .
Being the winner is the desireable outcome , but it carries it's own baggage .

 

[greydigger]

Got that right TB.
Scares the hell out of me thinking about it.
I don't want to kill someone.
My Mom was killed and I know how I felt.
On the other hand, I don't want to get dead.
I don't want anyone else to get dead.
I will do my best to make that so.
I have a CCW permit and thought a lot about it before getting one.
I decided that I should.
I don't know if I can shoot someone but the circumstances will tell if I have the B@@ls.

Still hoping someone can tell me a good mix for ammonia and water for a less than permanent stopper for a spray or stream.
Found pure ammonia at the dollar store, the quart spray bottles are too big but am working on that problem.
Thanks Mrs. O for the tip.

Grey

 

[Dirty WhiteBoy]

I carry a shovel full of whoop ass! I like it old fashioned style!

 

[MD Dog]

I won't go into my history with fire arms but I have shot and killed and I did so without remorse. Not everyone feels remorse when they are justified in their actions I shot two people actually with one surviving and serving Three life terms. My answer for those of you in the Blue nose state is a squirt bottle with some cheap hot sauce or Jalapeno pepper juice, even some red pepper mixed in water will work. BTW the red pepper and Hot sauce both contain capsicum which is the same active ingredient in many of the OC self defense sprays.

 

[MD Dog]

Reposted for Don Jose,

HOLA MD: I know exactly what you are saying. Why I am still here.

Most seem to have the idea that someone being shot is instantly, and cleanly, killed as in the TV or movies.

This is far from the truth. It is particularly bad with a lung or face shot person slowly dying. Takes hrs some times, and generally not too pretty or quietly.

End point, I still would rather that it be them, then me or mine. I have yet to be the primary aggressor.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pippenwhitepaws, So far I have never known anyone that shot themselves in a life time of close contact with firearms.

Oops sorry, while in the Border Patrol, we had one of our officers clowning with another. The first made a judo chop at the second, The second, had been practicing quick draw, drew and forgot that he had been trained to follow through, and inadvertently fired his .38 at close range. The Officer being shot didn't even know that he had been shot until he collapsed, He had been shot in the spleen,. I had to give him blood, but fortunately I didn't have to clean the underclothing of the pore scared wets that we had ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Monty yer a --deleted-- cat heheheh As for the little .25, it is still far better than an ice pick, and gives max concealment. Never would be my choice if I had any, but under certain circumstances, it is acceptable.

Personally, I prefer being a saintly lover, SMOOCHIES gals, sigh, but there are some out there that lack a few raisins in their crumbly cookie.....................I locked some up while working at San Quintin while going to College.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[cw0909]

I have not yet looked/found pure ammonia in the store.
Would not want to do serious harm so was thinking the stuff I use on clothes.
Wonder what the mix with water should be to incapacitate and not maim?
Hope someone can let me know please, I am liking this nonlethal idea.

Worst scenario is a .45 to people or pets. Lions and Tigers and Bears - Oh Kay.

Found the squirt gun. A little spray bottle from the dollar store. Can be mist or spray or total closed.

Drache - is bleach allowed in Canada?

see below image
the stuff in red would be, what your looking for, i think, as im not
a chemist, so you should really check this out with, a more knowledgeable
source, and read the whole thing. Ammonia is pretty darn dangerous
see the red arrow, and line, and that small circle, it is pointing to,
i would think from, the chart maybe 2-3 of those drops may be
sufficient, for that r/rating, in say a 12 oz bottle of water
DO NOT TAKE MY WORD FOR IT THOUGH

chart is near bottom of pg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonia

i use to be like metalheads whoop ass! idea, now that ive had a
back injury ive gone to this

i carry something like this,when MDing alone, see link/ second one down pg
and a 6in sheathed knife, on my side, i always carry a sharp 2-3in
bucks pocket knife, even when im not MDing
ive never had any problems, with any animals, of any kind, including the
2 legged type, while i was MDing.
the best thing is to be aware, of your surroundings all the time
i allways take sometime to do a full circle look around, every 15-20 min,
and the start, of the look around, should be behind you first
ive learned things can happen fast, if your not paying attention, and
the outcome could be worse, than had you been paying attention

link
http://www.safetygearhq.com/stunbaton.htm

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

just a thought..if you are making your own pepper spray...do use a non leak container..a squirt gun has all the possibilities of spraying yourself by accident...