Etiquette and the Banning of Metal Detecting

Montana Fireball

Full Member
Apr 8, 2008
149
2
Etiquette and the Banning of Metal Detecting
Many times we read posts about the banning of metal detecting at such and such place. I was reading a new book about ghost towns and came across some interesting info which might shed some light upon the restrictions that are popping up everywhere in recent years. One group calls itself “Tread Lightly.” Their simple rules are: 1. Travel and recreate with minimum impact. 2. Respect the environment and the rights of others. 3. Educate yourself, plan and prepare before you go. 4. Allow for future use of the outdoors, leave it better than you found it. 5. Discover the rewards of responsible recreation.
That didn’t seem all that bad, but further into the book I discovered another group of paragraphs which read as follows:
Historic trash dumps, outhouses, pits, and surface scatter can be scientifically valuable. Never dig up dumps, pits or outhouses. Doing so not only damages the scientific value of the site, but it is almost always illegal.
While using a metal detector might be fun, picking up artifacts or digging them up is not only destructive to the scientific value of the resource but it also highly illegal.
Then the bomb was dropped with the next paragraph!
It is important to note that the above behavior is, in general, illegal. Whether you are on private or public property there are trespass and destruction laws that protect private lands. Equally, theft and destruction laws provide civil and criminal penalties for damaging federal, state and county/city properties.
WOW! No wonder folks are finding a hard time locating a place to swing their coils. This is what is making its way to communities all across the country.
 

Tom_in_CA

Gold Member
Mar 23, 2007
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That author (probably an archie, or inspired by them anyhow) can say anything he wants. But it's not necessarily true. Or, put another way, it's full of implications that don't necessarily follow through. For example: Sure, we would all agree that there are laws about the damaging of "federal, state and county/city properties". I mean DOH!, who's going to suggest that they can, in fact, "damage" public property? ::) The issue is "Is metal detecting 'damaging' public property?" Is say NO, it's not. Unless you're making a mess, not covering your marks, etc... then there's no damage. Plain and simple :)

That author even goes on to suggest that it is somehow wrong to detect on even private land. Right there is where we can perceive his agenda. He/she is just simply an archie-type mentality, who will say such baseless things, that do not hold up under scrutiny of law. I had a long drawn out debate on the subject with a political archie, who was trying to say such things about all land in Kentucky. In the end, they had to re-phrase their statements with "this is the way I feel", or "it's not good to be digging up the past" etc... when the realized that this was simply their opinion, not law!

There are lots of public places (yes, some that would even be considered ghost towns) with no prohibitions on metal detecting (as long as you're not a nuisance or something). So I consider what your text says to be baseless and something to ignore. Unfortanetely, what will no doubt happen, is newbies and skittish folks read things like that, and think "oh no! everything's off-limits! oh no! I better run and ask a bunch of bureaucrats (who probably didn't even care till you asked) now!" and thus the self-fulfilling cycle continues :(
 

Saturna

Bronze Member
May 24, 2008
1,373
10
Nanaimo, B.C. Canada
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White's 4900 DL Max, Tesoro Deleon
Exactly what insightful historic knowledge is gained from finding coins, etc. in areas where it is well known what used to be (or still is) there?

Hey, look! I found a 1920's coin in this park.
Well, yeah, this park has been there since 1880. So what.

Hey, I found some old bottles in this outhouse site.
It's just a homestead from the 1870's, big deal.
But don't you want to know exactly how deep I found the bottles, etc. etc.


...or this stuff could just be left in the ground forever.



Jay
 

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Montana Fireball

Montana Fireball

Full Member
Apr 8, 2008
149
2
I left out the parts referring to vandalism, I might find time to type up those sections later. It appears they whoever they are, are lumping this hobby in the same catagory as gangs that use spray paint cans to deface historic sites. I just started this thread to educate folks as to why the restrictions are popping up everywhere lately.
 

Tom_in_CA

Gold Member
Mar 23, 2007
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pippinwhitepaws, you say:

"who dropped what is the story told by the artifacts. an archaeologist can recreate the entire community by what some people consider scattered artifacts...disturbing the historical record, for personal profit...justifying this behavior by saying it is only a coin, only a privy...its my land...i am a taxpayer...."

This would be true, if there was ever any hope that archaeologists could cover the land, to begin with. Sure they can do sample 4x4 pits here and there (and take weeks to do a single pit). Even the most well-funded aggressive university archaeological dept. can scarcely get to a handful of pits in a year. They'll do just a smidgen sample in a historic park or battlefield, and never do the rest. Look at a map of the United States public lands ........ heck, even a single state or national park: never in a million years could they begin to scratch the surface on the acreage, doing 4x4' pits at a time.

The same argument that you are making, was what Florida tried to tell Mel Fisher. But it was successfully counter-argued that ..... while on the surface "letting the state archies search, find, salvage, etc... d/t it's in public waters" SOUNDS like a good idea, right? But the reality is, never in a million years is the govt. going to get taxpayer money to fund risky treasure hunts.

There are tons of protected historical sites, with already protected/non-md'd sites just waiting for archie pits. What's wrong with someone else going out in the middle of the forest or desert or beach somewhere, where ... truth is, there will never be an archaeological dig? Even most archies (except the purist type) would agree with this thinking. Ie.: "you're fine, just stay out of my 4x4 pits" :)
 

deepskyal

Bronze Member
Aug 17, 2007
1,926
61
Natrona Heights, Pa.
Detector(s) used
White's Coinmaster 6000 Di Series 3, Minelab Eq 600
Primary Interest:
Metal Detecting
So you want to dig a privy and find out which page of the Sears catalogue they used to wipe their butts with for historical purposes?

Show me where they have the documentation of every lumber camp, saw mill, grist mill, mining town, etc.

It's not an issue until one of us find it first...then it's "You're destroying history and evidence of past civilizations."

I can understand the archies wanting to find and preserve artifacts from people's that lived several hundred years ago when historical records didn't exist. Old Indian sites from hundreds or thousands of years ago. But old outhouse sites? Ghost towns from the 1800"s. What really is so valuable from that era that should keep any of us from detecting a site.

Museums are full of tools, clothes, whatever, from those times. And why is it okay for the government to come along and okay some developer to put in some mega mall next to a national monument?

It's just a double standard. One for the archies and their government supporters, and one for us.

Please share the name of this book with the rest of us. I'd like to get my own copy...just to research the author and his affiliates.
Like Tom said...it's pretty obvious where his inspiration comes from.

Al
 

Saturna

Bronze Member
May 24, 2008
1,373
10
Nanaimo, B.C. Canada
Detector(s) used
White's 4900 DL Max, Tesoro Deleon
pippinwhitepaws said:
but i realize educaton and ethics are over ridden by personal greed.
sorry i intruded.

That's not really fair. Anybody who is truly greedy wouldn't spend the hours MDer's do to find the relatively small monetary amounts they do.
If money is one's driving goal, get into business, property development etc. Don't spend 6 hours on a beach or in a park and feel thrilled when you find a silver quarter or a 10k ring worth $30.
Sure, sometimes someone makes a big find, but we all know, realistically, that is the exception.


Jay
 

scrubber

Full Member
Apr 1, 2009
203
0
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Unfortunately, people confuse the thrill of the hunt with greed. Is someone who buys a lottery ticket greedy? Is someone who picks up an antique object in a flea market and then displays it on their mantle for 20 years greedy? No, they have enjoyed the thrill of finding the object, or winning ticket, or rare coin, or whatever. Usually they never even are sold. I haven't sold one single thing I've found MDing. They are my treasures, no matter what their monetary value is and I'll probably die with them. The people who call us greedy need to learn what the word means. :BangHead:

scrubber
 

scrubber

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Apr 1, 2009
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whitesPA said:
one day metal detecting will be banned everywhere. sad huh

Well, I'm not that pessimistic about it, but the trend is definitely in that direction. If people get their power jollies by banning things how about a lobby to ban aluminum pulltabs and bottlecaps. Now that's a restrictive law I would campaign for. :protest:

scrubber
 

George (MN)

Hero Member
May 16, 2005
829
98
If an archaeologist gets $3,000 for digging up a 50 cent item, who is greedy? As long as they can draw a map showing which square inch something was found & how deep it was, they become rich. But who even wants this info, let alone needs it? If they're tour guides & get into telling people which square inch had what piece of junk how deep, would the tourists be sleeping standing up?

They talk about damage but say you shouldn't even pick up surface items. That's because they'll eventually get into the ground & may be of interest to future archaeologists.

Could you imagine a Pulltab Museum displaying all the various types & what years they were made? I wonder how much they could get for admission & how many people would come?

The govt is looking to decrease spending. Could we get these archies fired or have they made so much they bribed all officials necessary to approve these projects?

Yep, metal detectorists get 50c-$1 an hour in new coins with nobody's name on them & they try to scare us saying we could be arrested for theft if we do this at city parks, public schoolyards or private property with permission. Don't count on govt to tell the truth. HH, George (MN)
 

Tom_in_CA

Gold Member
Mar 23, 2007
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Hey George, when you think of it, metal detecting is ACTUALLY the most politically correct, non-invasive, non-disturbing, non-destructive way to retrieve things, right? I mean, if you are going to remove, handle and sift a 4 x 4 x 4 ft. pit, (and touch EVERYTHING, including bones *oh no*), verses a pinpoint precision slit to go just to an item, leaving no trace of your effort, guess who did the least "damage"?

And as far as catologued information, it has been shown again and again that the private collector/digger market has done more to inform and educate each other and the public, than archie's can ever do! Who do you think writes the guide books for buttons, coins, tokens, relics, bottles, etc...? Quite often the archies consult the information gathered and published by those "evil" private collector/diggers. Oh no! say it isn't so!
 

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Montana Fireball

Montana Fireball

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Apr 8, 2008
149
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Welcome to our little town! :wink:
I guess they are looking at issues such as city parks where someone twists an ankle or falls and breaks their wrist and there happens to be evidence of past metal detecting, the conclusion is reached that the level ground was distrubed by a detectorist and this lead to the injury. Maybe reseeding costs preformed by city workers and their benifits are added up and the conclusion is reached that if metal detecting is banned the tax payer will not have to burden the price of repairs. The parks department tends to over look the fact that in the summer, grass without water turns brown each year, this is called going dormant, spring rains and all is green once more. Maybe regulations being made into laws show justification for their positions and salaries.
But for the officials it is much easier to lump metal detectorists into the same league as gang bangers, low lifes, undesirables and other forms of riff-raff. Curfew at the park signs go up and the police patroll the area after dark! Daylight arrives in the city park, joggers make their laps, a car or two are parked along the water front, joints are lite, later in the day the executive brings his co-worker here for lunch and engages in sex, the police make a few rounds thru the park keeping an ever vigilant eye out for the metal detectorist!
 

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