Vacant land open for detecting?

[Swartzie]

Hi all. Upon looking at maps for property owners I have noticed there is a lot of land that is vacant. The maps will show plots of land, but there's no names on them. See the attached picture below. This land used to be part of a town in the 1800's, but is now just woods. There are no property owners listed on the map for this part of the old town. So do you think I can safely assume this land is open for detecting? I have already found a couple coins and buttons dating to the 1800's on this land.

 

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[Montana Jim]

The property owner would know if it was open to detecting or not.

 

[truckinbutch]

Up to date tax records for the county will reveal the current owner . I am not aware of any unclaimed property in the lower 48 that is open to unrestricted invasion by a person with a casual interest .

 

[mlayers]

It is hard to say. Check out the tax records and see who pays the taxes. If you need help detecting it I am free this holiday week-end....Matt

 

[sfinder]

I wouldn't.

 

[watercolor]

All land is owned or managed by someone.
Truckinbutch's reply for checking tax records at the County Assessor's office would be your best bet.

 

[deepskyal]

Interesting map. Vacated Streets?

Well. my questions would be...is the area posted at all? Is the whole area now woods?
What would be the reason a whole section of town would be abandoned?

Possibly condemned by the local gov't for some higher purpose only they understand?

Other's are correct in saying "someone" owns the property. Could be abandoned, bought by some corporation to develope into a mall or housing plan. Or just plain old abandoned and reverted back to city/county/state property.

So why are you asking the question and not detecting it?

When I drive along and spot a potential area that looks like there are old foundations in the woods....if it's not posted, looks long abandoned and unkempt and isnt interfering with someones activities or adjoining property....I get my detector out of the car and hit it.

I'm thinking you have a gut feeling something ain't quite right and that's why you ask. Otherwise...like I said...what I would do.

Al

 

[jeff of pa]

OK I'm going to go on a Hunch here

The street was vacated Which means it is no longer
on the tax rolls for the town or whatever.

This means it is the same as the Highways
and Easements.

However these properties that Boarder it.
Do they Take care of it ? Mow Grass ?
Shovel Snow ? Use it for Parking ?

IF Yes they may have a Feeling it's Theirs.
Naturally the state could take it at will
& You couldn't be arrested for Trespassing,
But would you want somone using land you
are responsable for ? Yes or No, Some will
have a Problem.

Ask at the Home that takes care of it.

EXAMPLE My property ends
at my front door.

If you were to detect the Bank out front
I Wouldn't say a word.

If you did the bank in front of My Neighbor
He would probably be out after you.

He couldn't have you arrested.
But do you want the Hassle ?

 

[Swartzie]

The area is completely wooded and abandoned. The town was moved to higher ground when the dam system was put in back in 1939. No signs, no activity. A nearby bordering field has the property owner listed. Perhaps I will call them or stop by and ask if they also own this "vacant" land.

 

[jeff of pa]

The area is completely wooded and abandoned. The town was moved to higher ground when the dam system was put in back in 1939. No signs, no activity. A nearby bordering field has the property owner listed. Perhaps I will call them or stop by and ask if they also own this "vacant" land.

Take a Copy of your Pic above along.

Show it to the Field owner
and ask him if he "Thinks anyone would Mind"

If he says no, go for it.

Sort of sounds like a "Centralia" situation

 

[Montana Jim]

The area is completely wooded and abandoned. The town was moved to higher ground when the dam system was put in back in 1939. No signs, no activity. A nearby bordering field has the property owner listed. Perhaps I will call them or stop by and ask if they also own this "vacant" land.

It really seems to me your town hall or whatever you have access to - maybe the county records could easily lookthat up and tell you who owns it - it's a matter of public record.  If the town owns it, or the state, just say "thank you" and walk out and go detect it! If not - try and get permission. 

I have hunted a few sites that I only know existed because of old platte maps - now they are just an open field, and while one fella farms it all there are like 20 owners all paying taxes on the lots that were there in the 1930s and 40s.

I know one lot here that holds very detectable stuff and is littered with relics - a Jesuit Mission from the 1850s... the owner lives out of state and the guy farming the land tried to get me access... the owner says "nope". 

My point is - someone owns it... the only person that can give you permission to hunt is the same person that can have you arrested for being there - so I always try to get permission.

Those old plots are usually good for a few neat finds... good luck.

 

[BudP]

You can never go wrong by asking permission. Someone, as others have said, owns the property. If you owned it and saw an intruder digging on YOUR property, what would your reaction be

 

[Monty]

If the "abandoned" town is in a flood plane of the lake and the lake is a flood control lake, it is probably owned by the Federal Government. This type land is managed by the Corps of Engineers, TVA or some other government entity. If a street is abandoned, it merely means the municipality or the County no longer maintains it. I have hunted corps land and flood plane property all over the state and no one has ever objected. If there is no one paying the taxes, check with one of the nearest Corps of Engineers office, and they can tell you. Monty

 

[Tom_in_CA]

We have vacant lots in the blighted section of our town, that.... if I were to look long enough and hard enough, I might find that they are owned by someone in a distant city, who's family has long since "walked away" from it, since it's in the blighted section of town, and not profitable to ever develope. Or perhaps they just walked away decades ago, and let the city take it over for non-payment of property taxes? In that case, I guess I should ask the mayor? But they basically sit vacant, with criss-cross short trails through them, and we just ..... uh .... have helped ourselves. But sure, I suppose if I asked enough people "can I detect?" I probably would've found someone to tell me "no" (who probably never even cared or gave the matter thought). I mean, the same is true for city parks or any beach you come to: If you keep asking far enough up the chain of command (be sure to show up with a shovel in your hand) you're sure to find someone who can say "no". But does anyone really care?

I'm with deepskyal on this: if I see abandoned vacant non-posted lots, that for some reason I think might be worth a shot (an old saloon or home or something used to be there), I would not hesitate to hit it.

 

[eldorado]

lets see ,,,, MORALS,,, ETHICS,,,,,,,,,, obediance to the uninforceable. pretty good desrciption in my book.... EVERY metal detecting book and manual that I have seen so far states ALWAYS GET PERMISSION FROM LAND OWNER FIRST the code of detector ethics? right? geesh if ya dont want o play by the rules just go rob a grave.

 

[truckinbutch]

lets see ,,,, MORALS,,, ETHICS,,,,,,,,,, obediance to the uninforceable. pretty good desrciption in my book.... EVERY metal detecting book and manual that I have seen so far states ALWAYS GET PERMISSION FROM LAND OWNER FIRST the code of detector ethics? right? geesh if ya dont want o play by the rules just go rob a grave.

My point exactly !

 

[savant365]

Ok Swartzie, I think you are trying to do the right thing here by asking questions. Just make a couple calls to find out who actually owns or is responsible for the area you are interested in. Don't even mention metal detecting until you know who owns it. If its private property then ask permission, if it's city/gov't ran and its not posted go ahead. If you start asking permission from city/gov't they will keep transferring you around to different people and eventually one of them will say no and then you are screwed. It sounds like, from what you have posted, nobody will mind but the world is full of people who think its thier business to tell you what you can and cannot do. I wouldn't be too suprised if you run into one of these types out there. Good luck,

HH Charlie

 

[Gary in Pennsylvania]

So why are you asking the question and not detecting it?

When I drive along and spot a potential area that looks like there are old foundations in the woods....if it's not posted, looks long abandoned and unkempt and isnt interfering with someones activities or adjoining property....I get my detector out of the car and hit it.

I'm thinking you have a gut feeling something ain't quite right and that's why you ask. Otherwise...like I said...what I would do.

Al

Yeah Man!
Gosh - And I thought I was alone in that way of thinking! (still is the VAST minority though!)
I'd hit it too.


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[jeff of pa]

I Don't Know,
I always Cringe When I see something like this :

Man charged with trespass

PINE GROVE — State police at Schuylkill Haven charged a 66-year-old man with criminal trespass for entering a private property on Cardinal Road in Pine Grove Township on Saturday morning.

Police said the incident occurred at 11 a.m., but did not name the man or the 33-year-old man who owns the property in the public information release report Sunday.



although I Doubt it's Detector Related,
& Being he was Arrested tells me there is
More then Entering somones Land involved.
maybe he entered a building or was doing something
damaging to the property or refused to leave.

But I Wouldn't want The Story to be about me.

if you at least have somone to push your blame on
it helps.

 

[Gary in Pennsylvania]

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OK.
I'm a gun owner and many of us gun owners make it a point to be familiar with the law.

This is for Pennsylvania. It is all useful and interesting - but I'll highlight the important stuff (ya should read it all, though):

§ 3503. Criminal trespass.
(a) Buildings and occupied structures.--
(1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is
not licensed or privileged to do so, he:
(i) enters, gains entry by subterfuge or
surreptitiously remains in any building or occupied
structure or separately secured or occupied portion
thereof; or
(ii) breaks into any building or occupied structure
or separately secured or occupied portion thereof.
(2) An offense under paragraph (1)(i) is a felony of the
third degree, and an offense under paragraph (1)(ii) is a
felony of the second degree.
(3) As used in this subsection:
"Breaks into." To gain entry by force, breaking,
intimidation, unauthorized opening of locks, or through
an opening not designed for human access.
(b) Defiant trespasser.--
(1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is
not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in
any place as to which notice against trespass is given by:
(i) actual communication to the actor;
(ii) posting in a manner prescribed by law or
reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders;
(iii) fencing or other enclosure manifestly designed
to exclude intruders;
(iv) notices posted in a manner prescribed by law or
reasonably likely to come to the person's attention at
each entrance of school grounds that visitors are
prohibited without authorization from a designated
school, center or program official; or
(v) an actual communication to the actor to leave
school grounds as communicated by a school, center or
program official, employee or agent or a law enforcement
officer.
(2) Except as provided in paragraph (1)(v), an offense
under this subsection constitutes a misdemeanor of the third
degree if the offender defies an order to leave personally
communicated to him by the owner of the premises or other
authorized person. An offense under paragraph (1)(v)
constitutes a misdemeanor of the first degree. Otherwise it
is a summary offense.

(b.1) Simple trespasser.--
(1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is
not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in
any place for the purpose of:
(i) threatening or terrorizing the owner or occupant
of the premises;
(ii) starting or causing to be started any fire upon
the premises; or
(iii) defacing or damaging the premises.
(2) An offense under this subsection constitutes a
summary offense.

(b.2) Agricultural trespasser.--
(1) A person commits an offense if knowing that he is
not licensed or privileged to do so he:
(i) enters or remains on any agricultural or other
open lands when such lands are posted in a manner
prescribed by law or reasonably likely to come to the
person's attention or are fenced or enclosed in a manner
manifestly designed to exclude trespassers or to confine
domestic animals; or
(ii) enters or remains on any agricultural or other
open lands and defies an order not to enter or to leave
that has been personally communicated to him by the owner
of the lands or other authorized person.
(2) An offense under this subsection shall be graded as
follows:
(i) An offense under paragraph (1)(i) constitutes a
misdemeanor of the third degree and is punishable by
imprisonment for a term of not more than one year and a
fine of not less than $250.
(ii) An offense under paragraph (1)(ii) constitutes
a misdemeanor of the second degree and is punishable by
imprisonment for a term of not more than two years and a
fine of not less than $500 nor more than $5,000.
(3) For the purposes of this subsection, the phrase
"agricultural or other open lands" shall mean any land on
which agricultural activity or farming as defined in section
3309 (relating to agricultural vandalism) is conducted or any
land populated by forest trees of any size and capable of
producing timber or other wood products or any other land in
an agricultural security area as defined in the act of June
30, 1981 (P.L.128, No.43), known as the Agricultural Area
Security Law, or any area zoned for agricultural use.
(c) Defenses.--It is a defense to prosecution under this
section that:
(1) a building or occupied structure involved in an
offense under subsection (a) of this section was abandoned;
(2) the premises were at the time open to members of the
public and the actor complied with all lawful conditions
imposed on access to or remaining in the premises; or
(3) the actor reasonably believed that the owner of the
premises, or other person empowered to license access
thereto, would have licensed him to enter or remain.
(d) Definition.--As used in this section, the term "school
grounds" means any building of or grounds of any elementary or
secondary publicly funded educational institution, any
elementary or secondary private school licensed by the
Department of Education, any elementary or secondary parochial
school, any certified day-care center or any licensed preschool
program. (June 23, 1978, P.L.497, No.76, eff. 60 days; Oct. 27, 1995,
P.L.334, No.53, eff. 60 days; Dec. 3, 1998, P.L.933, No.121,
eff. imd.; Oct. 2, 2002, P.L.806, No.116, eff. imd.)

2002 Amendment. Act 116 amended subsec. (b) and added
subsec. (d).
1998 Amendment. Act 121 added subsec. (b.2).
1995 Amendment. Act 53 added subsec. (b.1).
1978 Amendment. Act 76 amended subsec. (a).
Cross References. Section 3503 is referred to in sections
2710, 3311, 6105 of this title; section 2314 of Title 34 (Game);
section 3573 of Title 42 (Judiciary and Judicial Procedure).

Like I've said many times before - If it's NOT posted and it clearly looks unkept and abandoned - I will carefully MD the land and neatly fill the holes.
Well - the owner APPARENTLY didn't put too much care into keeping up the grounds OR any structure. Let the pictures show that the condition of the premises suggests that the owner didn't covet the look of the land or the appearance of the shambled structure.
So - Me - The actor reasonably believed that the owner of the premises, or other person empowered to license access thereto, would have licensed me to enter or remain. I would have promptly left if asked.


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