YOU be the judge.....what would you decide......

Feb 23, 2009
364
8
Moscow-ish, Pa
Detector(s) used
Minelab X-Terra 705 w/7.5&3kHz coils
OK. In light of some recent permission & "Would you tell" threads......

I thought of a scenario. A big what if.....but interesting nonetheless.

So - Let's say that you got written permission to hunt an 1800's era home/property. Mrs. Dibble was oh so kind in signing your permission release form to keep whatever you find....and she even gave you cookies.

So you commence your hunt.
The Dibble's 10 acres wasn't always one chunk. Back in the 1880's to early 1890's.....the south west portion of the property at one time was a railroad throughfare with a station and even a small tavern/ hotel. The hotel/tavern burned down in 1908 and the rail line abandoned in the 1930's with the station demolished. If not for word of mouth and some old maps......you'd never even know about it.

So - cut to the chase. There is a great, distinguished, and very old oak tree right where the station/hotel would have been. You get a good, loud & deep signal right next to that tree.
You start to revover the item.

It is the obvious remnants of a wooden box. There is no integrity to the box. You removed the damp, decayed wood and find a thick animal hide with a satchel wrapped within.

It is 100 $20 gold pieces with a wax sealed glass bottle.

With the wax plug carefully removed, you remove the handwritten note that basically said that this treasure was a legit inheritance and was buried with the intent to be retrieved at a later date......but the author acknowledged that circumstances may prevent him from getting to recover it.
.....so......he closed the letter saying that he wills the treasure to whomever find it. And the letter was actually certified by a Notary Public whose number and existance were verified through records. The letter writer's name and existence are also verified, through records, as legitimate. It is all genuine.

In the meantime, Mr. Dibble find out that the missus permitted MD'ing and he gets upset. He claims that the house and property are solely in his name and he is the only one who can speak for who can or can not MD the property. He claims that Mrs. Dibble should never have granted permission and he wants whatever items you recovered from the ground.



So........REMOVE YOUR ETHICS AND MORALS HAT!

How do you think this would play out?

I think that even though all land home was in Mr. Dibble's name, his spouse would have power to permit you to MD. With that permission secured, I wonder how well the notarized "Will to he who discovers this...." will stand up.


You be the judge.
What are YOUR thoughts?
 

S

stefen

Guest
Lets look at some (pretend) facts...

1. If Husband is the sole owner of the property by inheritance or was his prior to marriage, his case may stand up in court...

2. If his wife is mentally incompentent, any document she signs may be challenged by the husband in court...

3. As to the validity of the notorized documents, these may be challenged in court as being invalid...(the fact that both parties can be proven to have once existed, there could be extenuating circumstances that would invalidate their actions)

4. The heirs of the estate of the notorized documented Last Testament & Will may challenge its validity in court...

It looks as if the (pretend) case, could prove that the finder is S.O.L. (thats $hit Out of Luck)
 

MD Dog

Bronze Member
Feb 10, 2007
1,770
14
Please don't yell !
I would rebury it and come back later when no one is around to claim the prize. Why hassle with all the lawyers and courts. Just take it and Keep you trap shut ! See that's the thing. It's not that we have super police men or IRS has secret spies everywhere. The way people get caught with these things is simple. They tell on themselves. :wink:
 

OP
OP
Gary in Pennsylvania
Feb 23, 2009
364
8
Moscow-ish, Pa
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Minelab X-Terra 705 w/7.5&3kHz coils
MD Dog said:
I would rebury it and come back later when no one is around to claim the prize. Why hassle with all the lawyers and courts. Just take it and Keep you trap shut ! :wink:


LOL!
Understood!

I'm wondering how LAW would see it.
 

Tom_in_CA

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Mar 23, 2007
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Something similar happened to me. But with only a barber half, not "100 $20 gold pieces" ::)

A friend and I got permission to hunt the site of a stage stop, from an elderly lady. A few hours later, an irate cowboy fellow comes driving up in his pickup, demanding to know what the h*ck we were doing! We explained our permission, and .... come to find out ..... the elderly lady is his mother. After much back & forth rigamaro between him, his mom (who now claimed she didn't understand what it was we were up to), etc... it was finally decided we could continue, but would have to turn in to him, anything we found. I had already found a barber half, and decided to "break the ice" by showing that to him (thinking it would soften him up, and make him nice, historically interested, etc...). Instead, he just snatched it up, and started following us around like a hawk! Oh well, I guess I'm glad it wasn't a jar of $20 gold pieces :)
 

civilman1

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Nov 29, 2005
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stefen said:
Lets look at some (pretend) facts...

1. If Husband is the sole owner of the property by inheritance or was his prior to marriage, his case may stand up in court...

2. If his wife is mentally incompentent, any document she signs may be challenged by the husband in court...

3. As to the validity of the notorized documents, these may be challenged in court as being invalid...(the fact that both parties can be proven to have once existed, there could be extenuating circumstances that would invalidate their actions)

4. The heirs of the estate of the notorized documented Last Testament & Will may challenge its validity in court...

It looks as if the (pretend) case, could prove that the finder is S.O.L. (thats $hit Out of Luck)
Why couldn't you go back the next day AXE em' for permission again :o
 

S

stefen

Guest
Likely Guy said:
My decision revolves around, "What kind of cookies did Mrs. Dibble give Me?" :icon_scratch: I hate peanut butter cookies.

But, I agree with Stefen. *quiet voice: he sounds like a lawyer*

Myself...I prefer oatmeal / raisin / cranberry / walnut cookies...with milk, of course... :D
 

Likely Guy

Hero Member
Civilman1 said: "Why couldn't you go back the next day AXE em' for permission again?"

Do you mean "AXE em', AXE em'?!" Seems extreme.
 

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savant365

Silver Member
Mar 28, 2007
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Northwest Missouri
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Well as far as how the "law would play out" You and Mr. Dribble would end up paying legal fees and court costs that would amount to about what you could sell the coins for. I think as long as Mr. dribble didn't actually see the gold coins I would hand him all the trash and maybe the few odd coins I dug and tell him to have a nice life. And with my moral and ethics hat firmly in place I wouldn't lose a minutes sleep over keeping 100 $20 gold coins. I cut a deal with the lady and was doing nothing wrong. It's not my fault he didn't marry a woman who always does what he would do.
 

MD Dog

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Feb 10, 2007
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Please don't yell !
savant365 said:
Well as far as how the "law would play out" You and Mr. Dribble would end up paying legal fees and court costs that would amount to about what you could sell the coins for. I think as long as Mr. dribble didn't actually see the gold coins I would hand him all the trash and maybe the few odd coins I dug and tell him to have a nice life. And with my moral and ethics hat firmly in place I wouldn't lose a minutes sleep over keeping 100 $20 gold coins. I cut a deal with the lady and was doing nothing wrong. It's not my fault he didn't marry a woman who always does what he would do.

Zactly, the LAW can't do diddle without witnesses. And if you keep your trap shut and don't tell on yourself, then possession is 9/10s of the LAW. :wink:
 

cw0909

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Dec 24, 2006
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savant365 said:
Well as far as how the "law would play out" You and Mr. Dribble would end up paying legal fees and court costs that would amount to about what you could sell the coins for. I think as long as Mr. dribble didn't actually see the gold coins I would hand him all the trash and maybe the few odd coins I dug and tell him to have a nice life. And with my moral and ethics hat firmly in place I wouldn't lose a minutes sleep over keeping 100 $20 gold coins. I cut a deal with the lady and was doing nothing wrong. It's not my fault he didn't marry a woman who always does what he would do.

ditto
she didnt say hey ill be with you on hunt, or i get half, people should be a little more careful,
with their permission to MD
 

SC_hunter

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Jan 16, 2007
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Think a picture is worth a thousand words :icon_jokercolor:
 

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rmptr

Silver Member
Dec 25, 2007
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I think the way this tale goes, on the Missus's permission, I'd have to make sure she got rewarded by me.

Upon orders by Dibble, I would cease and desist and attempt to negotiate a new deal with him.
I would promise him a specific percentage of what I found, if we could negotiate a new deal.

Anything found under the prior deal wouldn't be discussed with him.

How would a court look at it?

If it got to that point, it would depend on the law of the state.
Some states have common property laws where a lawful wife is responsible for the husband's contracts
and other states consider her to be more independent.

If I were sitting in judgment of the matter, I would say a contract was offered to Missus.
She exhibited authority over the property, by agreeing to work, and offered beneficial terms.
They were accepted.

Dibble rejected the contract, and no further work could be done under it.

Benefit of the first contract still goes to the searcher in fair exchange for his efforts.
He could have found nothing. Of which Dibble would have gotten nothing.

How's that?

I've worked on peoples homes and found things... and always brought it to their attention.
and I've asked if I could metal detect, when I worked for a house flipper, and gotten permission.
Never found anything of great value, but didn't even bother to advise them of it. They didn't care.
 

M

michigan michael

Guest
I would try compromise! Explain the legal fees would eat up the value in the long run and if it were not for you the gold probably would of never been found. Try a 50/50 or 60/40 split and explain that you would be willing to continue to search for any other goodies that may of been buried on the property. Their greed may actualy turn to your favor.
 

Goodyguy

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Mar 10, 2007
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Gary,

Your scenario seems a little too detailed to be just hypothetical. Man what a great find! Sounds to me like legally you have two documents giving you permission to keep what you have already found.

As long as no one knows what you did find then case closed.
However, if Mr. Dibble knows what you found and that is why he is trying to trump Mrs. Dibble's permission, Then it's time to get advice from a trusted attorney. Because Mr. Dibble is going to sue you for return of the property you found.

GG~
 

OP
OP
Gary in Pennsylvania
Feb 23, 2009
364
8
Moscow-ish, Pa
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Minelab X-Terra 705 w/7.5&3kHz coils
No no no.

It's PURELY hypothetical.
I'm a gun guy and am registered over at a few gun boards.
Gun folk like to discuss law, ethics, and hypotheticals.
I think those tendencies have trickled over here.

I always ask questions. I always wonder. I want to know.


Third quote in my sigline sums it up.





(but if I HAD found such a cache......I wouldn't even post questions about it here! <grin!> )


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