Concession hunt

[jasonbo]

For starters, [mod]DELETED – Forum Rules Violation (Wreckdiver1715)[/mod]

Comical.

Wow, attacking my character, my equipment and my morals. Not what I expected from this forum, but I wish nothing but blessings for you.

Sorry Bug some have more tack then others. I guess one thing you know now is how deeply people will dig into questions you ask on this forum. I think a great thing to do is find a local MD club in your area. Go out with them a few times an learn form there experiences cause every state every city will treat things differently.

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

Ivan salis, while on the one hand, I can understand what you are saying: "why knock someone who is just trying to place it safe?" But there is a reason. It works like this:

Let's say that people in a certain locale (a state, city, county, or wherever) can hunt till they're blue in the face, and no one cares. No one in authority has ever given the matter thought, to connect some "cultural heritage" or "archaeological digging" type stuff to us. Ie.: detectors apparently are just thought of as innocent geeks in sandboxes. Well guess what happens when a skittish person goes through all the bureaucratic channels he can find, eventually finding that person that tells him "no"? That same bureaucrat that gave him the "no", is now made aware of some supposed evil on our part. They then begin to boot others, that perhaps they never gave thought to before. I've seen this happen on a micro-scale before, so I'm sure it can happen on a state-wide scale. The micro-scale is this: Someone shows up at a park kiosk and asks "can I have permission to detect?" The clerk may say "gee, I dunno, let me check". He pulls out his dry dusty rule book, finds something about no collecting (or whatever) and tells the guy "no". Well guess what happens when that same ranger sees another md'r, whom he otherwise would probably never have given a second glance? He'll think "aha! there's one of them" and start booting others!

Why would we want that? Thus the reason why some people emphatically take exception to the skittish approach.

 

[bazinga]

Thanks for bringing logical arguments to this forum as well as countless others online as well, Tom. You should probably start saving all of these responses and cut and paste as appropriate when people ask about asking for permission. So many people just don't get it.

I have a friend who started out a year or two ago. He started asking permission EVERYWHERE he went. And in spots that had no rules against detecting, people were telling him no. No more detecting those spots for him.

 

[ivan salis]

in his case he lives in GA -- so its already "wrecked" as far as public MDing goes *

--but in areas that do not have already rules on the books prohibiting metal detecting , I agree you about the "why ask" unless it posted "no" metal detecting --- public land is just that "public land" --for all the public to enjoy including metal detectorist --- not just the "select few"--- asking folks "can I?" just give them the feeling of empowerment that that have the "right" to say 'NO" -- to our peaceful use of public land -- --they do not SAY "NO" to baseball or soccor teams both which tear up turf with cleats --or many other "public" land users who at times do things that could easily be veiwed as least as "harmful" as what they accuse metal detctorist of. (golfers for exsample)

 

[bugbitingme]

I may not have been as clear as I could have been and I apologize for that. We in Georgia do not need DNR permission to hunt private land. We also do not need DNR permission to hunt public land. We need permission from the land owner, whether that be city, county or state level. Upon receiving permission in writting, we must notify the DNR of our intentions, with the location, date(s) and time. The only time we need DNR permission is if we want to hunt an existing historic or archaeological site, (Kennesaw Mountain, the Indian burial Mounds in Acworth or fort Oglethorpe for example) without a Phd and past experience in archaeology it would be a waste of time to apply. If we have written permission and have notified the DNR, then anything we find, other than human remains, we can keep. These laws were enacted in Georgia due to unscrupulous MD's trespassing on private and public lands in search of civil war artifacts. To put in place a law to prevent or punish these acts, it unfortunately had an effect on all public properties, including school grounds and public parks. I do not have any problem complying with laws, when to do otherwise, it would have a negative impact on my peaceful living.

I have found many MD'ing forums and this one is, by far, the most informative and fun to read. I have learned things in a short time that would have taken a lot of research (time) to find, like the electrolysis tank. I look forward to learning more and maybe upgrading from the borrowed Radio Shack (Bounty Hunter Landstar) detector when the time comes. Until then, I will just have fun and dig everything, as some suggest. Good luck to everyone, I look forward to the incredible pictures of all the cool things you find. It gives me a thrill to think that one day I may turn over a plug with a gold ring with diamonds still in the settings.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

"We need permission from the land owner, whether that be city, county or state level. Upon receiving permission in writting, we must notify the DNR of our intentions, with the location, date(s) and time."

I still think:

1) this is akin to asking the president of PETA ("People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals", which is an activists animal rights group), the following question: "Can I keep my bunny in my car for 30 minutes while I run in to the store?". They'd say "no, it's against the law, you're going to get hit with animal cruelty charges, etc....". I mean, what did you expect a PETA animal fanatic to say? So it's the same thing if you ask the average ivory desk archie "can I metal detect?" Of course they're going to find stuff they *say* applies to md'ing, and give you 100 hoops to go through. Same logic. Again I say: go see if other Georgia hunters if this means they've gotten permission from innocuous schools, parks, city parking strips, etc... and see if they got written permission, followed by advising the DNR, etc.... I bet no one does there. I just can't see how anyone even thinks he needs to do so, to hunt for concession stand coins (despite how an archie seems to think otherwise).

2) To the extent some extreme logic-chain of minutia *might* be applied to *all* public land in a state, I still say it only applies to archaeologically significant artifacts. And to me, barber dimes, IH's, jewelry, pulltabs, clad, etc.... are not "archaeologically" significant. And if they have some minutia (which again, no one cares about, till you ask) that says it's 50 or 100 yrs. old coins, again I say: is anyone really standing over you with a calculator checking for the age of your coins?

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

, again I say: is anyone really standing over you with a calculator checking for the age of your coins?

NO

 

[jasonbo]

I think it would be funny to walk into the states Historic Preservation Division walk up to the lead archie's desk and dump out 1500 pull tabs, bottle caps, rusted out tin cans, and other sorted out things. An say you don't want to be responsible for throwing out history.

 

[bugbitingme]

"Can I keep my bunny in my car for 30 minutes while I run in to the store?". They'd say "no, it's against the law, you're going to get hit with animal cruelty charges, etc....".

TAMPA — Police arrested a 41-year-old tourist Tuesday, saying he left a small dog in a sport-utility vehicle without water in the Busch Gardens parking lot.

Marius Ioan Molnar of Parkfield, Ill., came back to his 1999 Mercedes-Benz sport utility vehicle to find police and Hills­borough County Animal Services had removed the dog from the 90-degree heat of the car's interior and were taking it for treatment at an animal hospital, Tampa police said.

The dog had a 105.8 degree temperature, police said.

Molnar, who was in Tampa for spring break, was charged with cruelty to animals and held at the Hillsborough County Jail on $2,000 bail.

I know this happened in Cobb County a couple of times last year too.
I don't think the age of anything you find would have anything to do with whether you can keep it if you were not supposed to be there digging, unless of course, if you had permission. I think I asked if there were any Ga. MD'ers that could back me up, but I guess not. I just don't understand why someone would have a problem with how I go about my day.

 

[bazinga]

I just don't understand why someone would have a problem with how I go about my day.

You just don't get it, do you?

When people like YOU go around asking EVERYBODY for permission to places that were already okay to hunt, eventually someone will say no. And when you ask why, and state that their is no law against it, well they will sometimes go and create a law just for you.

So it affects everybody else. That's why we have a problem with it.

 

[piggman1]

The key to this is the term "archeological artifact". This has absolutly nothing to do with coinshooting around parks, schools, or any public land unless it is written that metal detecting is strictly prohibited. Here in Texas we have some of the strictest laws of all states when it comes to "archeological artifact", the state claims it all, unless found on private property, and they can still bend the law there if they deem the "archeological artifact" of value. Now the city of Austin has it written that NO metal detecting is allowed in any parks within the city limits. The Lower Colorado Authority does not allow any metal detecting on lands they own around some of the lakes, and all of this is in writing, and law. I have been asked to leave, I have even been lectured for an ungodly amount of time, and told of fines if caught again, but they still let me go with just a warning. Just check your city laws concerning parks or any public property, if it's aginst the law, it will state "no metal detecting allowed". Otherwise, if it is public property hunt all you want. If someone doesn't like it, they will let you know. Then just be nice and go your seperate way.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Bug-biting-me, I should have anticipated that someone could find an actual animal cruelty charge link, for my illistration. Doh! I was trying to pick something ridiculous, to show that you can always find an extremist to tell you "no". Perhaps I should have added to my example " .... a bunny in a cool car with a bowl of water". No doubt you can eventually find a Peta activist who would tell you that was deprivation, isolation, trauma, etc.... Pick any example you want, and I think you get the point: If you ask enough people if you can pick your own nose, you will eventually find someone to tell you "no"

I have no doubt that you can find an archie to tell you "no on all public land". In fact, I'm willing to bet that in ALL 50 states, you can also find someone to tell you "no", at some level, even in the most innocuous places, for some reason or another. If you get a "yes", it merely means you didn't ask with the right set of mental images, or didn't ask high enough up the chain of command. Just be sure to show up with a shovel in one hand, and a contract for them to sign in the other hand, and I'll bet you can eventually get a "no", at some level.

You say you can find no Georgia md'rs to chime in. Certainly there are dealers, clubs, forums, etc.... where you can meet other GA hunters. See how they are getting into public parks, beaches, sandboxes, schools, etc... Alert them to how they are law-less and see what they say.

True story: I know a guy who got hassled by an archie on a state beach here in CA. It was just a fluke that this state archie just *happened* to be at this particular beach this day, because he was about to give a lecture at a little museum right by the wharf there. Before he stepped in to do his speaking engagement, he saw my friend down on the beach, and came down to give him the riot act. Mind you, state beaches are detected here, and no one's ever cared. The hunter and archie sparred off for awhile with neither of them getting anywhere. The hunter subsequently posted this story on a CA forum. A few people thought this matter should be straightened out, and the archie shown that he was wrong. But the more we on this CA forum collectively looked in to the matter, the more we realized that maybe the best thing to do would be to let the matter disappear, and just give this one guy lip service. Because you see, given enough morphing of verbage (cultural heritage stuff, collecting verbage, artifact stuff, etc....) there could indeed be some connection made. So ask yourself: why would we want that? Sometimes the squeeky wheel gets the grease :P

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Post-script: still waiting for a definition of "archaeolgical artifact", for your GA laws. Since you are in communication with these folks already, why don't you pop them an email, and ask how that is defined?

 

[bugbitingme]

Being new to the hobby, I had no idea how people felt about hunting on other peoples property. I don't havae a lot of regrets in life, but starting this thread is one of them. My intent was to say I had an idea of a place to hunt coins and that I was going to be a responsible guy and do what I thought everyone would respect. I imagine if I had said I was going to sneak on the school ground at night during spring break and run off with everything I found, I would have received different responses, only by a different group of people.

I just got off the phone with the DNR and she told me the law was pushed by MD"ers, even though they didn't follow it very well. That makes me believe that, even in the club community, there is two views.

I am feeling that some of you think I care how you persue the hobby. Actually, I couldn't care less what you do or how you go about it. I will do what I think is right for me, for the same reason I don't run red lights just because I don't see anyone that would care if I did.

As for an artifact, it is defined as anything made by a human, so an archaeological artifact is anything made by a human recovered. I guess a lost coin would fit in that category. I don't know if that is the legal definition, which can be different from Webster's.

If you would like to verify the validity of what I have been saying about the law, (and I get the feeling you don't believe me) her name is Jennifer Bedell and her phone number is (404) 657-1042

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Being new to the hobby, I had no idea how people felt about hunting on other peoples property. I don't havae a lot of regrets in life, but starting this thread is one of them. My intent was to say I had an idea of a place to hunt coins and that I was going to be a responsible guy and do what I thought everyone would respect. I imagine if I had said I was going to sneak on the school ground at night during spring break and run off with everything I found, I would have received different responses, only by a different group of people.

I just got off the phone with the DNR and she told me the law was pushed by MD"ers, even though they didn't follow it very well. That makes me believe that, even in the club community, there is two views.

I am feeling that some of you think I care how you persue the hobby. Actually, I couldn't care less what you do or how you go about it. I will do what I think is right for me, for the same reason I don't run red lights just because I don't see anyone that would care if I did.

As for an artifact, it is defined as anything made by a human, so an archaeological artifact is anything made by a human recovered. I guess a lost coin would fit in that category. I don't know if that is the legal definition, which can be different from Webster's.

If you would like to verify the validity of what I have been saying about the law, (and I get the feeling you don't believe me) her name is Jennifer Bedell and her phone number is (404) 657-1042

Bug,

Don't let some of the responses bother you, take them all with a grain of salt, in the end it is you who is the one there hunting. If some don't believe you they have access to email or phones and can contact Ga if they are that intersted. Go on and hunt and enjoy the hobby.....

Good luck on your hunt......

 

[Tom_in_CA]

bug-biting-me, you say:

"I had no idea how people felt about hunting on other peoples property"

Actually, the parks and schools belong to all tax-payers. They are not "other" people's property. True, they can have rules restricting their usage (ie.: no alcahol, no dogs allowed, etc....) but no, they are not "other" people's property.

As for contacting Jennifer, as I said, I have no doubt she'd rehearse the same things. I don't doubt for a minute that she really believes that no one can dig a hole or pick up a penny in GA, w/o her say-so. The same can be said of all 50 states, if you asked long enough and hard enough. All other hunters in the USA could preclude themselves from hunting any and all public places (yup, even the most innocuous sandbox, in the most lenient state), if they just asked with the right preconceptions, inferences, descriptions, etc...

 

[bugbitingme]

"I don't doubt for a minute that she really believes that no one can dig a hole or pick up a penny in GA, w/o her say-so."

I don't think you are paying close attention. I have stated that we do not need DNR permission, just that we are to notify them of the location, date(s) and time, it is up to us to get the permission from the property owner. By your premise, I could give you permission to hunt the school grounds and you could give me permission, but that would not be all of the owners giving permission. If we receive permission from the school board, then we have been given permission by all of the owners, because all of us elected them to represent us. If the school board denies permission, then all of the owners are denying permission, for the same reason.

I understand what you are saying, we should be able to detect on public property as long as we act responsibly. I do not disagree with that, but in Georgia the law says we can't.

I have been assured that I will get permission to hunt the school grounds by our representing member of the school board, but it is spring break and the head guy that has to sign it is on vacation. I have already notified the DNR of my intent and just have to give them the date(s) and time, therefore, I don't understand your charge that by my asking, everyone will have to hang up their detectors.

If I did not get permission and I was questioned by law enforcement, I could tell them I notified the DNR. when called, the DNR would only verify the notification. The next question would be to see the written permission from the land owner. I believe that is when I would have a problem. We do not have a law in Ga. that says if we find something that is older than ? we have to give it to someone. We get to keep whatever we find, with the exception of burial remains. I am sure you agree that burials are sacred and of historic value and should be preserved for trained archaeologists to investigate. I don't know if a MD'er has ever uncovered an unmarked site of either a fallen Confederate or Union soldier, but it would be an exciting find to share with humanity and his family.

Imagine that you found a significant item last week and you were showing it around. Someone asks you where you found it and you said, "a field over by the old Jones homestead". Then you were told, "that belongs to my cousin, he wouldn't even let me hunt that field, when did you get permission?". I'll let you fill in the rest of the story, remember, "what can happen, will happen", and that could happen in Georgia.

 

[bazinga]

Tom, no matter what you say, he just isn't going to understand.

He doesn't realize that it is OK to go hunt a park or school whenever he wants to hunt it. All he has to do is go read Today's Finds and see all of the finds posts that start off with: "I was bored after work today and decided to go to the old school down the street and do some detecting."

Not a single one of these people called up the DNR weeks in advance to plan this out. They just went.

 

[piggman1]

There is a right way and a wrong way to go about detecting. If it is private property, get permission before you hunt. If it is public property, you own that property and have the right to hunt it as long as you do not destroy it. Leave it better than you found it. Certain places do have regulations about metal detecting, and it is specifialy stated in their rules or regulations. Yes archeological finds are man made, but there is a great difference between finding a coin, and finding a native american campsite, or colonial camp. It is best to not stir up the waters because that gives them an excuse to say no with nothing backing it. If someone hassles you, just kindly go your way. I have hunted in MANY states across the US, and have run into lots of different kinds of people. Some like to show off and make you think you are doing something wrong. If that's the case, smile and walk away. As long as you know the law, you can always come back. I have even had the police come for going back, but nothing could be done because "No Metal Detecting" was not stated in the law or charter of the city or county. I have never been arrested for doing it, just told tp leave and not come back. The more water you stir, the more mud you create. And when you said they told you metal detectoris "push" it, I agree. There are some that make a bad image for all of us, and it is that image that they try and outlaw us from hunting prime areas. Always leave the area better than you found it. Pick up any trash you find. There is an old saying, one OH S**T will ruin a 1000 ataboys. The same applies here. They only use the negative to get where we are unable to do our hobby. They NEVER see the positive. I have fought the city of Austin a long time to allow metal detectors in their parks. I have shown the syringes, knives, ammunition, to name a few that I have found in kiddie play areas...all to no avail. Their comeback is we destroy the parks by leaving holes and destroying lawns. They don't take into concideration the hazzards we remove from therir parks. Every other county and city around here don't mind at all. In fact, they appreciate it.

 

[battlecat]

How come I read "fanatical animal/bunny advocates" as fanatical animal/bunny Bandits