SCOTS: Gordon Highlanders Cap Badge (Non dug) UPDATE 11-9-10, or, YO BRITS!

[BloodyBelle]

SCOTS: Gordon Highlanders Cap Badge (Non dug) UPDATE 11-9-10, or, YO BRITS!

Immediate fast forward: So I have this "Bydand Stag" white (plated?) metal cap badge which I am trying to date. Been at this desk for hours looking for a good resource to authenticate and date it.
It didn't happen. Any 'net search of this thing will turn up something better looking than my scanner produced, WAY! I think mine is early 20th century, and I want it to be. Souvenirs and surplus all over but none had excellent pics. I think a drip of Scotch might actually do some good around here tonight.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

DR.ÖTEK Metal Detector, Waterproof Gold Detector, Pinpoint & Terrain Modes, Professional Metal Detector - Grab it through Amazon!

[Siegfried Schlagrule]

Re: Gordon Highlanders Cap Badge, or, No Wonder My Back is Killing Me (Non dug)

wiki sez 1881 to 1994. no photo provided just a line drawing.
One of the google links leads to the unit museum. ss

 

[BloodyBelle]

Re: Gordon Highlanders Cap Badge, or, No Wonder My Back is Killing Me (Non dug)

wiki sez 1881 to 1994. no photo provided just a line drawing.
One of the google links leads to the unit museum. ss

I wrote the museum in Aberdeen and they got back to me quick. I need to send them a photo. Will let y'all know.

 

[BloodyBelle]

Re: Gordon Highlanders Cap Badge, or, No Wonder My Back is Killing Me (Non dug)

Awww maaaaaan. I just had the thing in my hand 20 minutes ago and have no idea where it is. I'm on pain meds now* and clearly need to be protected from myself. About to shoot** some items, or was.


*Wish they worked.
**As in photograph.

 

[BloodyBelle]

SCOTS: Gordon Highlanders Cap Badge (Non dug) PIC ADDED #1 0f 2 pc lot

Sending images to the museum I mentioned. Back has two "yellow metal" (copper?) whatsits that resemble eye-screws. One has some green stuff on it's stem. To secure, this would take one of those things that look like a bobby pin. (Twin pin?) White metal overall. No mark. Part of a lot that I'm going to start listing next.

Source would be about 120 years old now.

 

[BloodyBelle]

Re: SCOTS: Gordon Highlanders Cap Badge (Non dug) PIC ADDED 1:50 am EST

I don't think it's 3-D enough to be an officer's pin but what do I know?

 

[U.K. Brian]

Re: SCOTS: Gordon Highlanders Cap Badge (Non dug) PIC ADDED #1 0f 2 pc lot

Looks like the ranks white metal cap badge for the Gordon Highlanders. They lost over a thousand officers and 28,000 men in the First War. Mid way through the Second World War they were converted to being a tank regiment.

Unfortunately the fact it has the two loops at the back (to take a split pin) means its a late badge. Early badges had a flat "blade" type attachment method that pushed through a loop. Yours has the later but more secure pin that was pushed through the hat.

Any "green" should be cleaned off as it could be the start of bronze disease which can really eat through metal items.

 

[BloodyBelle]

Re: SCOTS: Gordon Highlanders Cap Badge (Non dug) PIC ADDED #1 0f 2 pc lot

Looks like the ranks white metal cap badge for the Gordon Highlanders. They lost over a thousand officers and 28,000 men in the First War. Mid way through the Second World War they were converted to being a tank regiment.

Unfortunately the fact it has the two loops at the back (to take a split pin) means its a late badge. Early badges had a flat "blade" type attachment method that pushed through a loop. Yours has the later but more secure pin that was pushed through the hat.

Any "green" should be cleaned off as it could be the start of bronze disease which can really eat through metal items.

Thank you, Brian. A few questions:

When was "early" and when was "late?" :-)

I am very keen to learn how to clean these non-precious metals! This particular item has a very faint yellowing on the upper right. Should I clean it and how?

I have yellow/dark yellow metal items that are loaded with green. I'd really appreciate help with the problem.

Is the greening business contagious--likely to be picked up by other pieces?

Cheers!

 

[U.K. Brian]

Re: SCOTS: Gordon Highlanders Cap Badge (Non dug) PIC ADDED #1 0f 2 pc lot

Good question re early/late. The blade type attachment was still being used after the Second World War but I don't know when the swap to the more secure type happened. I'll have a dig around and find out.

With the yellow on your badge it may be that its been overpolished in its army days and the base metal is starting to show through. Thats no problem and should be left alone. Some collectors would like to see it as there's so many fakes being produced now.

If you have bright light green thats starting to powder or flake it likely to be bronze disease which affects copper/bronze and their alloys. Its due to chlorides becoming active and is a progressive form of corrosion that can totally destroy an item.
Treatment is not easy. If there's a hole forming then all the loose material should be removed with a pin or dental tool. Then degrease in alcohol or acetone. Allow to dry and place in a solution of sodium sesquicarbonate for several days. Again remove and allow to dry. Then soak in a 5% solution of BTA for another week. BTA is benzotriazole and can be kept and reused until it starts to get discoloured.

Allow item to dry and finish off with some form of protective coating such as a conservation grade wax or lacquer.

Do make certain that the green is not just the stable dark green patina that copper and brass develops over time. If its stable leave well alone.

Regards Brian

PS Had a search round the internet and the switch from the original fitment type to the split pin one on your badge was happening during the Second World War depending on the regiment.

 

[BloodyBelle]

Re: SCOTS: Gordon Highlanders Cap Badge (Non dug) PIC ADDED #1 0f 2 pc lot

I heard back from the museum. I told them the bit about it might be a "later piece." Anyway, I was told it could take 3 weeks for a response because of the limited # of volunteer hours.

Sounds like they could use some help over there. Hint hint hint. It's the GH Museum in Aberdeen, Scotland. Sweet little place; I've been there. The town I mean.

And Brian, thank you so much about all those chemicals that I've never heard of for treating pieces. Perhaps I'll just mail them to you? I know you wouldn't mind.

 

[BloodyBelle]

SCOTS: Gordon Highlanders Cap Badge (Non dug) UPDATE 11-9-10, or, YO BRITS!

Got that promised response back from the Gordon Highlanders Museum in Aberdeen:

Dear

Cap Badge



Thank you for sending the images which enables me to confirm that the item is an example of a cap badge of the Gordon Highlanders since about 1876 up to the demise of the regiment in 1994.



I would not doubt the authenticity of the actual badge given that there are the two eyelets at the back to enable the badge to be fixed to the bonnet. However, putting a date of manufacture is not possible as obviously a great many were produced from a variety of commercial sources probably including India where the regiment was stationed for many years.


Yours sincerely,


XXXXXXXXXXXXX
Research Volunteer


I told you they need volunteers. It took a while. I'm going to invite the gentleman here.

Topic remains unsolved in hopes of pinning it down further. Will be adding additional pics of item.

Cheers!