Florida & "inland treasures"

[bigscoop]

Florida & "inland treasures"

Not asking for details or locations, but I am curious to know if anyone is aware of any 1500 through 1700's treasure that has been found in Florida inland away from the coastlines? Just wondering how far these shipwreck treasures possibly traveled once they had been recovered by the local Indians? It's my understanding that these Indians did have a system of trade and that they possibly even paid tribute to paramount rulers, just wanting to explore some other notions as to how far and to what extent these arrangements may have ranged? I find the whole era very fascinating.

 

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[Old Town]

Re: Florida & "inland treasures"

Not asking for details or locations, but I am curious to know if anyone is aware of any 1500 through 1700's treasure that has been found in Florida inland away from the coastlines? Just wondering how far these shipwreck treasures possibly traveled once they had been recovered by the local Indians? It's my understanding that these Indians did have a system of trade and that they possibly even paid tribute to paramount rulers, just wanting to explore some other notions as to how far and to what extent these arrangements may have ranged? I find the whole era very fascinating.

I'd never heard of Indians diving on the reefs for Spanish booty. Doesn't mean it didn't happen. What have you heard related to Indians working wreck sites?

OT

 

[bigscoop]

Re: Florida & "inland treasures"

OT,
The Indians did in fact practice the looting of these early shipwrecks, but to what extent is a bit unclear. There are various written accounts that report this common Indian activity. One account, by Jonathan Dickinson, as he explained in his journal, "all shipwreck treasure was taken to the king, who then divided it evenly among his chieftans and allies"........ I believe this was reported in 1696, or thereabouts. Since that time it has been theorized that possible paramount rulers did exist and that tribute was frequently paid to these rulers by subordinate tribes/chiefs as a means of maintaining an alliance. As to the volatility of these relationships and positions, it's anyone's guess but most believe there was very little consistency or real measure of trust in these alliances and ruling positions. Also, in the early reports that I've researched, it isn't clear if these lootings simply involved what was washed or carried to shore by the survivors or if these earlier Indians did in fact salvage the wrecks themselves. That's really about all I know on the subject.

 

[bigscoop]

Re: Florida & "inland treasures"

OT,
Here's something I just copied on line that sort of explains some of these early reports I was speaking about. This account was provided in the late 1500's..........


During the period between 1519 and 1617, when the Calusa Indians were at the height of their power, the King of Spain's “plate fleets” transported millions in New World gold, silver and precious stones. The leader of the Calusas was named Carlos, and he also ruled over a vast Indian federation that controlled the entire southern Florida coastal region. As tribute, the other Indians of the federation would give him most of the booty they collected whenever a ship sank along the eastern coast of Florida and they were able to salvage any of the cargo.

Accounts of Carlos’ wealth and power were recorded in the memoirs of a ship wrecked Spaniard. Hernando Fontaneda was only a boy of 13 en route to Spain when he found himself stranded on one of the Keys. He was soon taken captive by the Calusas and brought to the village of the chief, where he managed to amuse Carlos by performing songs and dances.

The young castaway’s life was spared and he spent the next 17 years as a member of the tribe. He learned several Indian dialects and served as a translator for Carlos in dealings with other tribes. Finally, when he was about 30, he managed to escape.

In the book entitled Narrative of Le Moyne, an artist who accompanied Laudonniere, mention is made of the proposed expedition that Fontaneda wanted to make back to try and recover some of the treasure Carlos had accumulated. “They (Fontaneda and his companion) also reported that he (Carlos) possessed a great store of gold and silver and that he kept it in a certain village in a pit not less than a man's height in depth and as large as a cask; and that, if I could make my way to the place with a hundred arquebusiers, they could put all the wealth into my hands besides what I might obtain from the richer of the natives.”

When Fontaneda eventually found passage to Spain, he wrote an account of his experiences in Florida and delivered it to the King of Spain. By doing this, he hoped to win favor and enter the King's service. In one section of Fontaneda's memoirs, dated 1575, there are several references to Calusa wrecking activity and the tribe's enormous wealth. The following is but one example: “I desire to speak of the riches found by the Indians of Ais, which perhaps were as much as a million dollars or over, in bars of silver, gold, and in articles of jewelry made by the hands of the Mexican Indians, which the passengers were bringing with them. These things Carlos divided with the caicques of Ais, Jeaga, Guacata, Mayajuaco and Mayaca, and he took what pleased him, or the best part.”

To this day, Florida historians, archaeologists and treasure hunters are still looking for leads to the tribe’s lost gold. It is known that Carlos’ village was near what is now called Charlotte Harbor, on the West Coast of Florida, near Fort Myers.

 

[Old Town]

Re: Florida & "inland treasures"

This is wildly interesting. I'd never heard of such a thing and I live here.

OT

 

[godisnum1]

Re: Florida & "inland treasures"

I have a treasure hunter & archaeologist friend here in St Pete that put a few small gold & silver crude figurines that he said were found in a mound down in the Everglades. He said that it was common place for the Indian tribes to be paid by the Spanish to recover shipwreck treasures, which they would do... but then they would continue to salvage and collect wreck items once the Spanish left.

Interesting indeed... and I'll follow this thread to see what else is mentioned.
Nice article, btw!
I'm learning about many of the tribes and such in my Florida History class that I'm taking this semester.

Bran <><

 

[bigscoop]

Re: Florida & "inland treasures"

This is wildly interesting. I'd never heard of such a thing and I live here.

OT

Yep! Wildly interesting. But there are many issues with trying to sort through all of this, for one thing, most early reports use a very broad scope in regards to what was Ais and Calusa territory, and many of the offered locations are also extremely debatable. But what is known is that these Indians did in fact loot shipwrecks and pay tribute. I know some of these treasures were indeed recovered by the Spanish, and often by brutal means, but just how much when weighed against what may have actually been taken? Many believe that it was the sighting of their own lost treasues within these Indian cultures that made the Spanish believe there was a source of huge wealth in Florida in the first place, never realizing or willing to accept that it was in fact their own lost gold and silver they were seeing. As for the paying tribute, some reports suggest that these treasures may have been carried long distances, perhaps even clear across the state from one coast to the other. Very fascinating stuff to ponder the possibilities.

 

[bigscoop]

Re: Florida & "inland treasures"

I have a treasure hunter & archaeologist friend here in St Pete that put a few small gold & silver crude figurines that he said were found in a mound down in the Everglades. He said that it was common place for the Indian tribes to be paid by the Spanish to recover shipwreck treasures, which they would do... but then they would continue to salvage and collect wreck items once the Spanish left.

Interesting indeed... and I'll follow this thread to see what else is mentioned.
Nice article, btw!
I'm learning about many of the tribes and such in my Florida History class that I'm taking this semester.

Bran <><

Bran, that's sure to be an interesting class. As for the Spanish paying the Indians, perhaps in later times but from what I've read I doubt the early Spanish did any such thing. In fact, from what I've researched they were actually quite forceful and unyielding when dealing with these Indians. I know there have been several pieces of reshaped gold found in burial mounds in Florida, which might suggest that they were sometimes buried with their possessions. But who can really say for sure?

 

[bigscoop]

Re: Florida & "inland treasures"

Just a little side note here, if I have mixed up my dates and names and quotes a bit it's because I am in the process of packing and moving and I can't access my notes and past research. Just too much to recall for my bean sized memory.

 

[bigscoop]

Re: Florida & "inland treasures"

I guess I'm curious as to what happened to all of this looted treasure? I've read accounts that tell of these chiefs often burying their prizes, but I've also read accounts how the Spanish were able to get some of these stashes it back.

 

[centfladigger]

Re: Florida & "inland treasures"

alright now, your in my world, haha. as a native Floridian with family here going back to the 1850`s with a fort named for my ancestor on the east coast and a trail running east and west to Tampa also I know some florida history. I have been digging diving for artifacts here for a long time.

To find the good stuff or find out what had=s been found you go to the diggers not the Archs, they dont get to dig everthing out there, although C.B. Moore tried his best, he looted the whole state digging in any mound he could find.
The Fort Center site in Okeechobbe was loaded with gold artifacts, the indian made jewelry out of alot of it, rolled gold monkey beads and other goodies. I know of other mounds on the west coast that produced gold artifacts and even ornaments made from spanish armor.
I have a friend who found alot of good stuff in Key Largo and Looe key and the hammocks of Miami area in the 70`s, laws have changed now for alot of places. There is SO MUCH stuff here its unreal. You wont find it on maps or stories handed down, you just stumble upon it.
I have a book from a a familys account of living in Lake Worth in the late 1800`s and they tell of finding treasure wash up on the east coast shores, they would comb the beaches every week looking for wood that would wash up for building their huts.houses, growing pineapples etc.

C.B. Moore hit the big mouonds on waterways for his steamship to travel on, we have a mound here outside of where I live that was excavated in the late 70`s that had mulitple layers of burials but in the top layers they found trade beads and effigy pots.The archiac indians here buried their dead in ponds and lakes and the woodland indians buried them in mounds. Lake Okeechobee had numeroud indian burials exposed when the lake about went dry a few years ago. I know of a few gold artifacts found in a mound way inland in the northern part of the state that was destroyed for development. The panhandle has had gold found where the spanish missions were outside of Tallahassee. So yes there is gold inland but with all the construction/destruction here it will all be under concrete soon.
I also visited a museum on the east coast years ago when I was searching for the place where my ancestors fort was Fort Capron , just north of Fort Pierce. I read a story where 2 divers found the gold from a pay shipment that was lost when the boat delivering it sunk. all gold cooins too.

 

[bigscoop]

Re: Florida & "inland treasures"

"Concrete"......I can't believe how much of it has been poured down there in the last 30 - 40 years.

 

[Trez]

Re: Florida & "inland treasures"

Someone mentioned Fort Capron and finding gold coins...here is part of the story.

http://www.jstor.org/pss/30147407

Audio story on Fort Capron
http://www.myfloridahistory.org/frontiers/shows/050

Has anyone here hunted that area? I live a few miles from there...never knew anything much about it, I mostly have hunted the beaches around here.

Any Ft. Capron hunters here?

Trez

 

[EagleDown]

Re: Florida & "inland treasures"

This is wildly interesting. I'd never heard of such a thing and I live here.

OT

As a Miccosukee descendant of Ah-see-yo-holo, (Osceola,) I also find it "wildly interesting".

From what I remember from my childhood, although ship wrecks were fair game for the nations where they happened, the salvage consisted of articles that washed up on the beaches, or ships that ran aground during storms.

As for the Calusa nation, they were so warlike that they pretty much exterminated themselves. And since they were "head-hunters", I have a hard time conceiving of them forming a "pact" with Spanish explorers. Also, for further reference, we did not have Kings!! We had the Mico Nope, (Great Chief,) and the Hobayee Tastanagee, (Chief War Leader,) but it was a matriarchal society and every thing was shared. I don't recall ever hearing of "Tribute" being paid to any Chief. (Then again, my people didn't move down into Florida until the early 1700s, so what do I know?)

But, there ARE many buried treasures in Florida, buried by different tribes and pirates. Some of them probably very large. Problem is, finding them. There was a beach just South of what was Ft. Myers in the 1960s that you could go to and find cannon ball size clusters of silver coins. I think that area is all housing and condominiums now.

 

[bigscoop]

Re: Florida & "inland treasures"

This is wildly interesting. I'd never heard of such a thing and I live here.

OT

As a Miccosukee descendant of Ah-see-yo-holo, (Osceola,) I also find it "wildly interesting".

From what I remember from my childhood, although ship wrecks were fair game for the nations where they happened, the salvage consisted of articles that washed up on the beaches, or ships that ran aground during storms.

As for the Calusa nation, they were so warlike that they pretty much exterminated themselves. And since they were "head-hunters", I have a hard time conceiving of them forming a "pact" with Spanish explorers. Also, for further reference, we did not have Kings!! We had the Mico Nope, (Great Chief,) and the Hobayee Tastanagee, (Chief War Leader,) but it was a matriarchal society and every thing was shared. I don't recall ever hearing of "Tribute" being paid to any Chief. (Then again, my people didn't move down into Florida until the early 1700s, so what do I know?)

But, there ARE many buried treasures in Florida, buried by different tribes and pirates. Some of them probably very large. Problem is, finding them. There was a beach just South of what was Ft. Myers in the 1960s that you could go to and find cannon ball size clusters of silver coins. I think that area is all housing and condominiums now.

Finding one of these catches would be "top prize" for me simply because of the period in which it came from. In past weeks I've had my sights set on "a small area" that I think could hold great potential, laid a few holes in the bottom to see how deep the soft overburden is and to also see how quickly the changing tides fill them back in. Trying to determine a few things before I attempt to hunt it. Can't wait to get at it!

 

[Frankn]

Re: Florida & "inland treasures"

St. Joseph was once the largest town in Florida. In 1841 a ship docked carrying yellow fever.Within weeks the entire population of 7000 died. For 3 years the town was deserted. In 1844, a hurricane and tidal wave leveled the spot. Today the area is undeveloped. The site is on St. Joseph bay. Should be plenty there to find.
Frank

 

[Frankn]

Re: Florida & "inland treasures"

St George island off the coast of Franklin Co. has 6 different treasures buried on the island.
William Billy Bowlegs Rogers was said to have buried several chests near old St George Lighthouse.
Another cache of five chests has been buried at the Western end of the island.
A Spanish ship was swept up on the island during a storm. The ship was broken up and it's canons and cargo of gold bars were scattered on the shore.
This is only part of the list. sounds like a good hunt.
Frank

 

[Frankn]

Re: Florida & "inland treasures"

I have always wondered, is a key a certain size? How big is a key?
This is a short story about Cudjoe Key. The Dutch pirate Jan Van Oss amassed about $4m in treasure. He buried it in the sand in 3 separate holes on this key. THE TREASURE! Oblong silver bars, gold and silver specie,gold religious plate, Hundreds of crucifixes and other hand worked Jewelry with gemstones.
This might be interesting. Depends on the size of the island and if it is built up.
Frank

 

[EagleDown]

Re: Florida & "inland treasures"

Taken from "Wikipedia": The Keys were originally inhabited by Calusa and Tequesta Native Americans. They were later found and charted by Juan Ponce de León. "Key" is corrupted from the Spanish Cayo, meaning small island. For many years, Key West was the largest town in Florida, and it grew prosperous on wrecking. The isolated outpost was well located for trade with Cuba, the Bahamas, and was on the main trade route from New Orleans. Improved navigation led to fewer shipwrecks, and Key West went into a decline in the late nineteenth century.

So, as you can see, key is merely a small island. Longboat Key, (near Sarasota,) I believe is about 9 miles long, but less than a mile at its widest part. While Egmont Key (in Tampa Bay,) is about a mile long and one half of a mile wide. (I'm guessing at my memory, having walked all over Egmont Key, but 30 years ago.)

Eagle

 

[bigscoop]

Re: Florida & "inland treasures"

I'm planning on hitting the area a bit around noon Monday, do some quick recon with the detector if the holes I laid out the other day are still visable?