Largest/most valuable treasure ever discovered and documented?

[kikicool]

Hi there, treasure hunters! I'm working on an activity for my nieces and nephews, and want to give them a "world record" type fact regarding treasure. But I'm having a really hard time nailing down treasure records. Does anyone know what is the most valuable treasure ever found? I need to make sure it is documented as such (thus the difficulty!), as they may choose to research it for a project, and I'd hate them to find that it was not all they thought it was...

So far my closest answers have been: Atocha, Terry Herbert's find... but I can't get any specific verification of either. Or maybe it's another! Any help is greatly appreciated. I'm pretty much out of my league here. Thank you!!

 

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[Hank]

S.S.Central America? I might be slightly off on the name?

Largest recovery of gold coins in history. Cargo entirely of gold coins, some of them rare pieces privately minted...from California gold rush days.

 

[Dano Sverige]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staffordshire_Hoard

Though it's nowhere near the most valuable ever. Have to go looking at Tutankhamun's treasure for that, or at the very least the 17 tons of coins recovered (read "stolen") off the coast of Spain by Odessey International a couple of years back. Terry's was only valued at 3m...Odesseys was valued originally at 500m.

 

[Hank]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staffordshire_Hoard

Though it's nowhere near the most valuable ever. Have to go looking at Tutankhamun's treasure for that, or at the very least the 17 tons of coins recovered (read "stolen") off the coast of Spain by Odessey International a couple of years back. Terry's was only valued at 3m...Odesseys was valued originally at 500m.

Can you cite a source? I've never heard of an unlikely [seventeen?!?] 17 tons of coins recovered off the Spanish coast? I hunted Spain for some years. Sorry, that doesn't sound right?

I'll start checking meanwhile, the SSCentral America had 3 tons of gold bars and coins with an estimated value of $500 million. I doubt whether anything except Atocha approaches that.

 

[Hank]

That seventeen [17] 'tons' of coins was actually 10,800 silver coins and 203 gold ones.

See "Coinlink", Sept.21, 2007 for the full story, google "recovered treasure". The estimated value was set at $1.49 millions.

Clearly, that large number of coins would still not even approximate "17 tons".

I remember the discovery and resulting litigation, but couldn't connect '17 tons' of coins to that event.

 

[Dano Sverige]

Hmm i think you're looking in the wrong places friend.

"Odyssey Marine Exploration, based in Tampa, Florida, announced in May 2007 the discovery of the "Black Swan," a site located in the Atlantic Ocean which yielded over 500,000 colonial-era silver coins. Odyssey recovered the 17-ton treasure and imported it into the United States pursuant to U.S. law. However, the find resulted in contention between the company and several parties who felt that the treasure was rightly theirs."

http://www.coinnews.net/2010/12/17/...against-odyssey-in-black-swan-shipwreck-case/

 

[Hank]

My apologies Dano.
There seems to be some confusion of facts between the two articles; e.g., the weight, numbers of coins, values, and so on?

 

[kellyco_bridget]

I found this online...It lists the top 10 treasures ever found, hope it helps.
Bridget - Kellyco

http://listverse.com/2007/08/29/top-10-incredible-treasure-troves/

Hi there, treasure hunters! I'm working on an activity for my nieces and nephews, and want to give them a "world record" type fact regarding treasure. But I'm having a really hard time nailing down treasure records. Does anyone know what is the most valuable treasure ever found? I need to make sure it is documented as such (thus the difficulty!), as they may choose to research it for a project, and I'd hate them to find that it was not all they thought it was...

So far my closest answers have been: Atocha, Terry Herbert's find... but I can't get any specific verification of either. Or maybe it's another! Any help is greatly appreciated. I'm pretty much out of my league here. Thank you!!

 

[NHBandit]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staffordshire_Hoard

Though it's nowhere near the most valuable ever. Have to go looking at Tutankhamun's treasure for that, or at the very least the 17 tons of coins recovered (read "stolen") off the coast of Spain by Odessey International a couple of years back. Terry's was only valued at 3m...Odesseys was valued originally at 500m.

I really don't get the point of your constant negativity. "stolen" ? From what I've read it was found in international waters after they spent a considerable amout of money researching it and looking for it. The Spanish government wasn't looking for it and didn't spend a dime on it's recovery, and it's been pretty much determined that IF it was the ship Spain claims it to be it was a commercial ship (there was no actual ship found just it's cargo), not a military ship and was carrying privately owned cargo. Spain themselves said it was a comercial ship at the time of it's sinking. They only changed their mind when they thought they could claim the treasure. Are you privy to some secret information that nobody else has or do you just have a really negative attitude most of the time ? The majority of your posts remind me of an old Monty Python skit where the players go to a shop where they can pay to argue just for the sake of arguing...

 

[Dano Sverige]

Lol i apologise.There are no American thieves. The USA doesn't "do" thieves. Hope this goes someway to calming your oversensitive patriotic nerves.

We all have our opinions..that one's mine, that's all. The point of my constant negativity is to annoy whiney wankers like you.Seems i'm good at it.

 

[NHBandit]

Lol i apologise.There are no American thieves. The USA doesn't "do" thieves. Hope this goes someway to calming your oversensitive patriotic nerves.

We all have our opinions..that one's mine, that's all. The point of my constant negativity is to annoy whiney wankers like you.Seems i'm good at it.

I'm not whining. I just don't like YOU. You call Odessey thieves but you have nothing to back up that statement because that's what you do. Run your mouth just to stir the pot. When I call you on it you STILL post nothing to back up your accusations. Dance little man, dance... I will admit I'm surprised that you're man enough to admit that you post the junk you post just for the purpose of annoying people. Sorry but that's not why most of us are here. Admitting you're a troll is the first step to recovery..

 

[Saturna]

From what I've read it was found in international waters after they spent a considerable amout of money researching it and looking for it. The Spanish government wasn't looking for it and didn't spend a dime on it's recovery, and it's been pretty much determined that IF it was the ship Spain claims it to be it was a commercial ship (there was no actual ship found just it's cargo), not a military ship and was carrying privately owned cargo. Spain themselves said it was a comercial ship at the time of it's sinking. They only changed their mind when they thought they could claim the treasure.

Yep, have to agree. Spain did nothing to look for this, and as is often the case, when some private firm does the work and expense, some government(s) jumps in and wants a piece, or even all of it.

 

[Dano Sverige]

Unfortunately the American penchant for "finders keepers" doesn't work where International law is concerned. As defined by this ruling:

" On December 22, 2009, a U.S. district judge ruled that Odyssey Marine Exploration should return to Spain the treasure, until the company's appeal is cleared. "The ineffable truth of this case is that the Mercedes is a naval vessel of Spain and that the wreck of this naval vessel, the vessel's cargo, and any human remains are the natural and legal patrimony of Spain," said the judge in his order."

Possesion is of course 9/10ths of the law, which is why Odyssey rented a cargo plane and spirited the hoard away in the dead of night.
The discovery wasn't announced until the buckets were rolling off the plane onto American soil.

When questioned Odyssey refused to supply the find location.
Refused to reveal the name of the suspected ship. (something all shipwreck hunters and treasure hunters research METICULOUSLY before,during and after spending millions searching.)
Any released pictures of the coins have all the important bits blanked out..so nobody can tell when they were minted. Why?

Your statement NH..or theirs, that the cargo was found but no ship wreckage just doesn't hold water,no pun intended. It conveniently allows Odyssey to say the site is anywhere between 3ft from a Spanish beach and 3ft from NY harbour!!

It's all highly suspicious and in many peoples view, pure BS!
Your own judicial system has told them to return the treasure to Spain and await the outcome, a ruling that verifies my use of the dreaded word "stolen" that upset you so much. Odyssey grabbed the goodies and ran..and that's against the law!

Simple isn't it?

Somebody loses/misplaces your declaration of independence. A year later it's discovered in a London flat. The owner claims he found it in an empty rubber dingy 13 miles off the coast of the USA. Because it was discovered in International waters according to your views the document now belongs to this man and the USA has no claim on it.
Can you REALLY see yourselves,never mind your government, saying "Oh well, he found it fair and square, he should keep it"?

Give me a f@&*¤n break! lol.

 

[Hank]

Nice writing Dano!

Methinks thou doth reason too clearly?

 

[NHBandit]

You are supposedly British although somehow Sweden is in the picture as well (don't bother to explain I really don't care) and the British treasure laws generally provide very fairly for the finder to either recieve compensation for his finds or gets to keep them outright (awsome system by the way) yet you think Odyssey should recieve nothing for thier trouble ? Why is that ? Because it's a US company and you express your dislike for our country almost on a daily basis ? Here's some REAL info to chew on, not some quotes from a 2009 court ruling. This is 2011 and the case has NOT been completely decided.. "Although it has not been conclusively proven the recovered cargo came from the Mercedes, Odyssey presented clear evidence to the trial court (including the ship’s manifest) that shows the primary purpose of the Mercedes’ last voyage was commercial in nature and the vast majority of coins on board were owned by private merchants, not by Spain. The United States filed an amicus brief in the case changing its previous position and supporting Spain in the “Black Swan” case by setting forth a re-interpretation of the language in the Sunken Military Craft Act (SMCA) to allow government-owned vessels on commercial missions to enjoy sovereign immunity." So what I'm reading here is that the laws prior to Spain making their claim clearly said that commercial cargo in international waters was in fact "finders keepers"... But after some back door conversations (that were exposed by Wiki Leaks) The US government changed the rules AFTER THE FACT so they could cater to the wishes of the Spanish government. I dissagree all the time with rulings made by our government. Such as other cases where Spanish treasure was returned to Spain when it was clearly STOLEN by Spain in the first place from people they murdered in Mexico and other countries. Spain has been murdering innocent people and stealing their valuables for hundreds of years. Trying to compare privately owned common coins & bullion to a historical document like the Declaration of Independence is just plain LAME and shows your desparation to appear to always be "right" I also remember reading that the latest court ruling called for the treasure to remain in the US until the case comes to a final conclusion. Odyssey dosn't have posession of the treasure, the government does, so your suggestion that because they have not returned it to Spain somehow makes them criminals proves how completely clueless you really are.. Here is another quote to adress your ridiculous claim that Odyssey somehow "pretended" there was no ship found. "Docket 179 - Odyssey's Response to Spain's Reply to Odyssey's Response to Spain's Motion to Dismiss (~2 MB)

Odyssey’s Response further states its position in the “Black Swan” case. This filing points out that most of Spain’s Reply, with a few noted exceptions, is a reiteration of its original Motion to Dismiss. But for the first time, Spain, in its Reply, acknowledged that there was no shipwreck at the “Black Swan” site and that the Mercedes carried private merchant cargo. Odyssey believes that the commercial nature of the Mercedes’ final mission defeats Spain’s claim of sovereign immunity. Further, the absence of a vessel on the site makes it impossible to say definitively that the site is the Mercedes."

Note particularly the part where Spain acknowledged that there is no shipwreck... Have a day Pssst.. this is a "treasure hunting" website. We are here to discuss finding treasure and KEEPING it especially when we are the ones doing all the research, laying out all the expense money, and then doing all the grunt work. Why are YOU here ?

 

[Hank]

NHBandit.......that captious and contradictory post seems to have led you on a bewildering 'odyssey' [pun intended], of exuberantly muddled reasoning in your attempts to disparage Dano's opinions? It appears you've actually accomplished the opposite with your latest data.
More, Dano's analogy of the Declaration of Independence seemed quite logical and valid to me?
And, since you're easily as provocative and contentious as your adversary, I ask you; 'why are you here'? Ignis fatuus?

Your writing has the scent of a frustrated attorney jousting at windmills.

 

[Daedalus]

This is normal in response to the U.S . We always did it , took it and stole it . We are the main cause of every problem brought on in any country on the planet !
NO one in Spain has even tried to find that ship and most likely would not have looked , no they wait in till someone finds it and then scream it is all ours .
Another thing , the list is very long that Spain and a few other nations took from the Americas , maybe it is time we ask for all that back so it can be given back to the people the items came from . Over three hundred years of pillaging of the Americas adds up to a whole lot of loot , I have to wonder how long it would take Spain to pay all this back ?

What these countries did was in an other time , and this has to stop . The only reason this is going on is someone saw how much money was recovered and they want it . So if we are going to have to start paying or giving items back that were lost hundreds of years ago then ok, but we want all the items that were taken from us and all of it not just a little . And at today's value !

 

[NHBandit]

NHBandit.......that captious and contradictory post seems to have led you on a bewildering 'odyssey' [pun intended], of exuberantly muddled reasoning in your attempts to disparage Dano's opinions? It appears you've actually accomplished the opposite with your latest data.
More, Dano's analogy of the Declaration of Independence seemed quite logical and valid to me?
And, since you're easily as provocative and contentious as your adversary, I ask you; 'why are you here'? Ignis fatuus?

Your writing has the scent of a frustrated attorney jousting at windmills.

You ask if I'm a lawyer but you're the one using 20 dollar words (typical lawyer tactic to confuse the real issues)? Let me put it in laymans terms. Dano said Odyssey basically fabricated the fact that there was no actual ship found. Spain admits there was no ship. He quotes rulings made in 2009 but those rulings have been apealed and it is now 2011 and there has been no final decision made yet. He accuses Odyssey of somehow keeping the treasure in the US while this circus goes on when the treasure in fact, is not under their control. I pointed out the fact that the US government changed the rules concerning commercial cargo AFTER THE FACT to please the Spanish as part of some back room deal... This is public knowlege. IF the ship can even be proven to be the Mercedes which is still in question. What part don't you understand ? All you have to do if you care so much is read a few of his past posts to see that he strongly dislikes Americans and uses every opportunity to make that clear. He calls a legitimate company that is living the dream alot of us "treasure hunters" would love to have a bunch of thieves with nothing to back up the accusation. Then he openly admits he does this stuff to get a reaction.. To answer this comment you made in simple easy to understand terms... "And, since you're easily as provocative and contentious as your adversary" Have you ever seen a fly buzzing around peoples heads poking and prodding at them just for the purpose of being annoying ? When you've finally had enough of this constant garbage you finally decide to do something about it. Do you really think I'm the only one here who is tired of his America bashing or am I just the one who finally spoke up ?

 

[Jon Phillips]

Somebody loses/misplaces your declaration of independence. A year later it's discovered in a London flat. The owner claims he found it in an empty rubber dingy 13 miles off the coast of the USA. Because it was discovered in International waters according to your views the document now belongs to this man and the USA has no claim on it.
Can you REALLY see yourselves,never mind your government, saying "Oh well, he found it fair and square, he should keep it"?

Give me a f@&*¤n break! lol.

Lets use your analogy in a little more accurate account of what it appears to represent.

Lets say the Declaration of Independence wasn't "misplaced" or "lost", but was actually stolen from it's resting place...the place it was created, and has always been, from the first party.

Now, the second party actually steals it.

They then "lose" or "misplace" it on the way back to the "Old World".

Then the third party recovers it, and it is found in the London flat.

Would the U.S. government expect it back? Absolutely!!.......but, as I'm sure you are aware, that is "apples and oranges". There is a big difference between a "national treasure" and just "treasure".

But....back to my point...You would indicated in your scenario (and by default, my more accurate representation), that Spain would be the first party....but I think anyone that has ever cracked a world history book would have to agree that they are actually the second party......Know what I mean?

You see? You kinda merged them into the first and second party by indicating that the Declaration was "lost or misplaced" but to make that argument relevent to this discussion there would have to be the original owners, the temporary owners, then the new owners.

I know....why bother with the ugly truth of history.....

(And before anyone tries to derail my counterpoint by pointing out that the U.S. stole all of our land from someone else as well....I am aware of that....especially from 1812 to the late 1800's, but I seriously doubt that there is one government on earth, that doesn't rule over land that was previously occupied by other people.....)

And if the Odessey crew were guilty of stealing anything....why were they released from the Spanish jails

(I know why....my friend is buddies with one of the guys that were detained....and it all comes down the "root" of all the drama)

 

[Dano Sverige]

Sigh..thanks Hank. We're definately one eyed men in the kingdom of the blind here arn't we? lol.

NH - Did i say Odyssey deserve nothing for all their effort and hard work?..Umm no!
What i give on your country on almost a daily basis is just an outsiders opinion/s. Many of you tend not to like this and it seems to hurt your feelings when i don't stand for the national anthem hand on heart and wave a little stars and stripes flag with every comment. Sorry about that, but we in the real world tend to just take outside criticism on the chin, or we respond/defend/attack in kind. It's what a "forum" is for i believe?

You keep coming out with these quotes that just rebound and bite you in the a$$. Spain built an empire, it's what we all did in the days before the USA. When you did finally emerge you copied us, and slaughtered your way to owning a country, which you then raped for all it was worth. In your own skewed reasoning i suppose the US should pay back to the native indians (at todays rate of course) for every bit of gold you butchered their ancestors to get? Please!
(this bit goes for you too Daedalus)

I don't pretend to know all the in's and out's of this case, my "stolen" view is purely because of the suspicious way in which Odyssey went about the find and continue to do so. I don't have the time or inclination to delve into the minutae of these things. To me it was a clear case of "smash & grab"..and that's not legal!
If this insults your sensitivities then so be it.

I'm more into finding and handing over "history" for the public to enjoy as well as me, but as you're likely to scream "this is a treasure site!" i'll go with that:
I'm here to discuss finding treasure and keeping it...LEGALLY! (and to pi$$ off yanks!)