Relic Information Guidelines

[NewsMan]

Just curious what you guys think of this. What if I were to put together simple 3x5 cards (professionally printed) that would be used to record basic information of a war relic find: Depth, GPS coord, positioning, etc...

These cards would then be sent to me, where I would keep them on file and eventually get them to to the researchers to help fill their GPS. Even for illegally recovered items. No names would be used to protect the relic hunter and the info would not be released to non-arch types (to protect your spot).

This is just the basic approach, but I think if worked through, this could be an interesting win/win for all.

Of course we would call it the "Tate Recovery System" (after me ). BUt this could be an interesting and productive way to collect relics without losing most of the info useful to historians.

What do you think?

 

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[jrsherman]

Not just no, but he77 no. What happens if someone decides to take the "innocent" information that is solely for "educational" benefits and use it to the negative advantage?

I've spent a lot of hours working on the current site I'm on, I'm not going to willingly give that information up to someone else for free and have it turn into something like a Roman Villa discussed elsewhere. It's not like it doesn't matter anyway that all someone has to do is say that we were digging something illegally for our entire collections to be seized, our equipment confiscated, and ourselves placed in jail simply on hearsay. Before you say that doesn't happen, I know the person it happened to secondhand. Before the event, he would have gladly helped anyone to learn how to research and find these legal locations, now he won't even discuss it.

The case of the man in Florida comes to mind as well, and it's always in the name of goodness on the government side, so no thanks.

 

[lumbercamp]

At the same time, everyone could send me all the information as to where they came across 150 year old logging operations. I would keep them for my personal use and spend all my time digging at these sites.

 

[NewsMan]

Like I said... no names would be needed. It would be done for the sake of HISTORY... but gathering from the first couple of answers, it is clear history is not what many of you are concerned with. My idea would make ME, and ME alone, the guardian of that info, which I would protect under all circumstances using reporter/source protection. This is just an idea I want people to expand on. This idea in NO way would/could put the relic hunter, his collection or equipment in danger... because it is ANONYMOUS except for the historical info.

But then again... it is becoming clear to me that the preservation of history takes the back seat to the other motives many of you harbor.

 

[lostcauses]

Rotflol:
You think you are the first to suggest this??

Try this link to read a bit on the artifact situation:
http://arrowheadology.com/forums/news/10216-here-we-go-again-texas-senate-bill-1516-a.html

Here is a link to a archeologist busted for doing such:
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,387244.0.html
The PDF of the bust can be found here
http://www.justice.gov/usao/nm/pr/2011/2011-02-25_amick_plea-sentence_pr.pdf

You can request more information from the information on the PDF such as the 42 page warrant etc..

The laws in the US are based on "Its all about the money they can make"

Reality is the relic/artifact hunter is in it for a lot more than the money.

A basic read on the whys of artifact hunting, which might work for MD's as well can be found here:
http://arrowheadology.com/forums/arrowheads-indian-artifacts/10201-why-we-do-what-we-do.html

I have yet to get a full copy of this one.

Your ideas of getting the information over the artifact is great, but unlikely to happen.
It also caries risks.

 

[NewsMan]

Not just no, but he77 no. What happens if someone decides to take the "innocent" information that is solely for "educational" benefits and use it to the negative advantage?

Explain to me how, if you sent me a pile of cards that list relic, depth and GPS how this could possibly be used against you?

 

[jrsherman]

Uhhhh . . .GPS location?

It doesn't matter that I'm not hunting battlefields, but plowed campsites.

If some archaeologist decided to use "Eminent Domain" like some states allow them to do, any work I do to find such a place is automatically lost, and the only name that gets placed on anything is the head archaeologist. Not to mention I lose the hardest part of the work, building trust with a landowner. What landowner is going to let you come back after the state takes over their property, not allowing them(the landowner) to do anything without the head archaeologists' permission?

 

[lostcauses]

Not just no, but he77 no. What happens if someone decides to take the "innocent" information that is solely for "educational" benefits and use it to the negative advantage?

Explain to me how, if you sent me a pile of cards that list relic, depth and GPS how this could possibly be used against you?

GPS could easily be used if on unlawful sites, by simply setting up a sting.
As for the other, it can be used to sneak in and do the site yourself.

Giving up a site location can find it striped by other hunters. It has happened.

jrsherman makes a good point in which sites have been locked down to the hunter, due to archeologist.

None of this has an easy answer.

 

[Dave44]

I am in the jrsherman camp. It is a sad statement that we cannot trust the motivations of government at this point. And if you look closely enough you can find instances where new law is passed and anyone that had crossed it before the enactment of law was retroactively tried for it's violation. Trust is being lost every day. Part of an agreement with a landowner is I will not put his family or property in future crosshairs of archies or bureaucrats.

 

[lostcauses]

Have you looked at this part of the site??

Database Of Treasure

Not much action as you can see.

 

[LukeTHr]

Like I said... no names would be needed. It would be done for the sake of HISTORY... but gathering from the first couple of answers, it is clear history is not what many of you are concerned with. My idea would make ME, and ME alone, the guardian of that info, which I would protect under all circumstances using reporter/source protection. This is just an idea I want people to expand on. This idea in NO way would/could put the relic hunter, his collection or equipment in danger... because it is ANONYMOUS except for the historical info.

But then again... it is becoming clear to me that the preservation of history takes the back seat to the other motives many of you harbor.

I fail to see any great advantage to anyone but you by doing this. If it's only available to you and no one else, then how does that preserve history in any way shape or form? I have been using GPS and logging my finds for years now and I have been sharing that information with the state archaeologist for inclusion in their database, and that is how I preserve the history I discover. I have had long visits with several state archeaologits and they say the same thing , "the likelyhood of the state EVER working these site is slim to none and if it weren't for hobbyists such as myself and our willingness to share with their department they would not know of many of the sites existence". I think your claiming greed for personal gain by folks here not willing to share their work with you is pretty insulting and you really need to re-think that idea.

 

[deepskyal]

No disrespect meant here but I too am wondering why we should trust you, a total stranger, with our locations?

And personally, for me, a set of red flags are being waved after a PM I got from a non-member wondering if I ever detected on state game-lands here in Pa. just this week. And just so you know, I've been very verbal on here about that issue so it would be easy for someone of authority to read the posts here and nab a few trespassers.
Obviously, I won't trust someone I don't know with knowledge of my goings-on.

I read his email a couple times before carefully and tactfully answering him. As far as I know, he was from the game commission trying to set me up.

I've learned the hard way not to trust people I don't know.

You probably won't get a lot of positive replies with people willing to share their locations with you, simply because you just joined the forum and for all practical purposes, have not established any credibility with anyone here.

I'm sure collectors here of specific items have their own record keeping systems and record their finds and if the time came that some big archeological thing occurred in the area, they would surely share with the appropriate parties.
Just my opinion.

Al

 

[liftloop]

SHHH is the word.loss lips sink ships.gps no no

 

[NewsMan]

I'm just trying to figure out a way to preserve the important info and still metal detect. My thought was more like keeping the cards on file until x-years down the road... then forward them to the university that may be studying the site so they can add them to their maps. That's all. perhaps if there was a semi-professional approach to recording the info, more people would be apt to allow to to hunt if you assure them the info would be passed on to researchers.

Just brainstorming... how can we get along with them where everyone wins?

 

[diggummup]

I'll give the generic response that I would give any member of the press...... "no comment"

 

[NewsMan]

I'm sure collectors here of specific items have their own record keeping systems and record their finds and if the time came that some big archeological thing occurred in the area, they would surely share with the appropriate parties.
Just my opinion.

Al

So maybe that's the solution: The cards would be universal, but people would keep their own records and send them on when the time comes.... hmmmm. When that is, who knows. I feel progress!

You guys may not trust me, and that's understandable... just know that A TON of my work is out there on the internet, so if you ever had to track me down to kill me, it would be easy!

 

[deepskyal]

I thought I remember a few people that have creative ways of organizing their data and logging finds.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,208680.msg1495203.html#msg1495203

There are others too, just one with several links to people that DO record their finds accurately.

Al

 

[Dave44]

I like the British system better.

I may be wrong but when you tell the government they give you half? That does sound better than a sliding scale that may net you zero here in the US. A type of imminent domain seems like.

 

[lostcauses]

I'm just trying to figure out a way to preserve the important info and still metal detect. My thought was more like keeping the cards on file until x-years down the road... then forward them to the university that may be studying the site so they can add them to their maps. That's all. perhaps if there was a semi-professional approach to recording the info, more people would be apt to allow to to hunt if you assure them the info would be passed on to researchers.

Just brainstorming... how can we get along with them where everyone wins?

The problem is the US government does not give up there property. If the info showed up later, the hunt for an item would also happen.

 

[lostcauses]

NewsMan
So far the best I have been able to do with all of this is:
To get the individual to keep their own records of the finds and data. If nothing else it allows the individual to learn from it. Who knows some were down the line that data might or might not be passed on to them that can use it.

But so far it is the best method yet.
It does allow for the individual hunter a bit more than just the relic/ artifact.
GPS units are readily available today with a good degree of accuracy. As an individual plots there own finds they may see patterns (if they exist) to the areas they hunt in. Data at this level is still useful to the individual, and some day maybe the rest of the world.