Illegal to detect in Virginia

[drybones48]

Has anyone heard of Archaeological Resources PROTECTION ACT OF 1979. That it is illegal to remove artifacts from Army personel (deceased) in Virginia, even on private land, because all land is considered Indian land and subject to the 1979 law. I recevied a letter from the Department of Archaeological Resources in the United States of America, stating I could be subject to a $1000.00 fine. Who knew, according to this letter, everyone who has taken Civil war artifacts is in violation.

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

drybones, aside from the topic of ARPA for a moment, what are you talking about when you say you are wanting to "remove artifacts from deceased army personel"? Your post makes no sense. Where do you know of deceased army persons, who's pockets you could riffle through?

 

[relichunters]

In Virginia it's illegal to detect on protected, state, or government property. I live here I know. Private property is only with permission from the land owner, if they say you can dig and take stuff, no one can say otherwise. It's like if you put a car in your yard, and give it away, the state can't repo it.

Anyways back to the topic. Public property is fair game, I've never been told it's illegal by anyone. Keep your finds to yourself, don't tell everyone what you found. But I dig up civil war bullets at a school all the time, with lots of people around. Nobody cares.

 

[RvaDiggn]

In Virginia it's illegal to detect on protected, state, or government property. I live here I know. Private property is only with permission from the land owner, if they say you can dig and take stuff, no one can say otherwise. It's like if you put a car in your yard, and give it away, the state can't repo it.

Anyways back to the topic. Public property is fair game, I've never been told it's illegal by anyone. Keep your finds to yourself, don't tell everyone what you found. But I dig up civil war bullets at a school all the time, with lots of people around. Nobody cares.

What part of VA are you from? I've been wanting to hunt some school grounds behind my house but can't find out if I will break any laws or not.
Also, I've recovered many many artifacts on private land but never from a grave.
(added) Is this just for VA or the whole country? http://www.nps.gov/history/local-law/fhpl_archrsrcsprot.pdf
Maybe I will stay away from the school behind my house

 

[thrillathahunt]

Notice chapter 12 section (c) ARPA

NOTHING IN THIS ACT SHALL BE CONSTRUED TO AFFECT ANY LAND OTHER THAN PUBLIC LAND OR INDIAN LAND, OR TO AFFECT THE LAWFUL RECOVERY, COLLECTIONS OR SALE OF ARCHAEOLOGICAL RESOURCES FROM ANY LAND OTHER THAN FROM PUBLIC LAND OR INDIAN LAND.

 

[relichunters]

I am in Charlottesville, VA. The schools I detect at are also public parks, meaning when school isn't in session, everyone and anyone is allowed on the property. If it's a private school, get permission first. Stay away from graves, you will be jailed for that. Any kind of grave regardless if its in the middle of the woods, it's illegal.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Rva-diggin, you say:

"I've been wanting to hunt some school grounds behind my house but can't find out if I will break any laws or not"

If you wonder if there's any "laws" that address your intended activity, where they live, then all you need to do is this: Go to your city's (or county if in the case of county owned property) website. Afterall, practically every city and county seat has a website nowadays, right? On there, there is usually a menu option for codes, laws, or city ordinances, or the park section has their park rules, and so forth, right? Simply see there if there's any prohibitions against metal detecting on city land (parks, schools, etc...). Do a key-word search, for instance, with variations of "metal detector(s)" etc... If it is silent on the issue, then I'll be durned, I guess there's no laws And if there's no website to find this, then for sure the city hall or county offices will have their charter, law-book, etc... out on the front desk, for public viewing, since it's public domain info. Just leaf through it. If it's silent on the issue, well then so be it

Next, you give the ARPA text link. This is a federal level land law, and therefore has nothing to do with county of city level land laws. Ie.: just because the federal runs their parks in a certain way, does not mean county and city parks are bound by that.

The only exception to this would be if a county or state SPECIFICALLY incoorporated it into their own rules, by specific written inclusion into their wording. Sometimes, yes: cities and counties borrow from each other's wordings, decades (or centuries) earlier, and simply quote, word for word, from neighboring cities, counties, or their state, or the fed's wordings on a particular topic. So in that case, if they said ".... as per ARPA...", then sure, it would apply. But if not, then the fed. parks can have different rules than podunk city or county parks can have. In the same way that parks have different "rules" all the time, right? Ie.: one allows alcahol, while another doesn't. One allows overnight camping, while another closes at sunset. And so forth.

A final thought on this: If you were to ask some city or county person (instead of the preferred method of looking it up for yourself, as I outline above), and they were to cite ARPA as their reason for saying "no": Just be aware that THEY TOO might be mistaken about the different layers of laws, and simply assume that since their county is a part of the larger state, which is a part of the larger fed, that therefore they must be bound by the higher fed. rules. That's why it's better to look it up for yourself. Because there are many many examples that float on forums, of people asking, and getting a "no", when no real prohibitions exist. Simply someone saying "no" and simply morph something else to apply to apply to your "pressing question", when odds are, no one would ever have cared or noticed you.

 

[relichunters]

If there is a "No metal detecting" sign where you're at, then you must likely will be busted. However if there isn't one, I seriously doubt anyone would have a problem with it, and if it's a groundskeeper or someone says something about it not being allowed, just say there are no signs posted, be friendly move to another area of the park.

 

[garrettman64]

Yes its illegal every where there is a burial. I am indeed saddened by this but its the rules we must follows I am selling off many things related to Indians mostly artifacts that are pieces of arrow heads from Ohio purchased on eBay i have a few hundred i believe

 

[relichunters]

I read the entire protection act of 1979. It says "Any Person" may obtain a permit to excavate artifacts from public land.
Also it states that only items over 100 years old is considered an archaeological artifact.

Towards the end it says Rocks, Coins, Bullets and Materials are excluded and does not require any permit. Meaning no matter how old, you can dig coins and bullets and no one can say anything.

 

[garrettman64]

I read the entire protection act of 1979. It says "Any Person" may obtain a permit to excavate artifacts from public land.
Also it states that only items over 100 years old is considered an archaeological artifact.

Towards the end it says Rocks, Coins, Bullets and Materials are excluded and does not require any permit. Meaning no matter how old, you can dig coins and bullets and no one can say anything.

Yes However They will thing of something to come up with Banning us to do what you say its call and amendment to the bill passed in 1979 Do get ya hopes up to high seems likesometimes our hobby is being taken away from us a little at a time by different laws passed

 

[Tom_in_CA]

relic hunters: A few things to keep in mind: When you see the phrase "public lands" in the ARPA verbage, be aware that ..... in context .... this means FEDERAL public lands. Not city, county, and state. ARPA is rules for federal "public" land, and as such, would apply to federally owned lands, not other forms of public land.

And as for the exclusion of bullets, coins, etc.... : many md'rs have latched on to that, thinking "aha!". But if you read closely, in context, I believe that's referring to bullets and coins and such, that are not "archaeologically significant". Thus you have to be careful with that, because the definition of "archaeologically significant" is deemed to be either 50 or 100 yrs. old, depending on what source your referring to. But .... hey, no problem: if someone approached you, you didn't find any coins over 50 yrs. old anyhow, right?? Your math never was too good anyhow, right?

 

[garrettman64]

relic hunters: A few things to keep in mind: When you see the phrase "public lands" in the ARPA verbage, be aware that ..... in context .... this means FEDERAL public lands. Not city, county, and state. ARPA is rules for federal "public" land, and as such, would apply to federally owned lands, not other forms of public land.

And as for the exclusion of bullets, coins, etc.... : many md'rs have latched on to that, thinking "aha!". But if you read closely, in context, I believe that's referring to bullets and coins and such, that are not "archaeologically significant". Thus you have to be careful with that, because the definition of "archaeologically significant" is deemed to be either 50 or 100 yrs. old, depending on what source your referring to. But .... hey, no problem: if someone approached you, you didn't find any coins over 50 yrs. old anyhow, right?? Your math never was too good anyhow, right?

Yes correct get a copy of the state and local ruleings on metaldetecting in the state town wich you reside n read the fine pring better still read the fine fine print under the fine print
Just my $.02 worth

 

[DCMatt]

I will add that rules vary from county to county in Virginia. In Fairfax County public land means ANY public land - city, county, state, or federal. And the language is very loose on defining "artifacts". I spoke with a local official who works for the Dept of Historic Resources. She said I should not dig parks, on school grounds, or even road easements. Then I spoke to a Fairfax County cop. He said if you're not making a mess or upsetting someone, no Ffx cop is going to do anything. If you ARE making a mess or someone is upset, they will simply run you off the public property.

In Arlington County my understanding is that public parks have "rules" about digging - not LAWS. You can not be arrested or fined but they can make you leave. I got this info from a retired Arlington County official (who is a relic hunter).

In Alexandria it is a class 2 misdemeanor if you are caught hunting for (with or without a MD) or removing relics from public land. Again relics are loosely defined to cover almost anything from any era. If you have relics in your possesion, you're in trouble. I don't go there.

Happy Hunting

DCMatt

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Matt, where did you get the information that "public" land in a certain Virginia county, means all levels of public land? It would seem to me that when you're reading a in the context of a city document, about "public" land, then by definition, they'd be referring to their own (city) land. And the same for when you're reading something county land, that it would be, by implication, county land, and so forth up the ladder. If some public official told you otherwise, I believe it's them that's mistaken.

Next, you say:

"I spoke with a local official who works for the Dept of Historic Resources. She said I should not dig parks, on school grounds, or even road easements"

Well gee, what did you expect from a dept. of historic resources personell? I mean, of course they're going to say no one should ever detect, anywhere. I mean, asking an archie a question like this, is akin to the following: Imagine asking a representative from PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, a radical animal rights activist group), the following question: "Hi, I was wondering if I could leave my pet bunny in my car, while I run into the 7-11 to buy a slurpee?". What do you think they would say? They'd SHREEK: "nooo! The bunny might get hot in the car in the sun. How can you be so heartless? You can be fined $600 for animal cruelty, and have your car taken as evidence! blah blah blah"

Well likewise, when you ask an archie "do you think I can metal detect in the park sandbox?", naturally they're going to morph anything they think applies, and tell you "no". Thus, I take opinions of law, from those folks, with a little skepticism.

 

[relichunters]

Luckily Albemarle county could care less about metal detecting, I have cops drive pass me all the time without taking a second look.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Hey relic-hunters, no no no, you've got it all wrong. You think that because cops drive past you, and pay you no mind, that "they don't care?". No no no, it's because you didn't ask enough questions, far enough up the chain of command, is the reason you didn't get a "no". Tsk Tsk.

I bet that no matter how innocuous the site you were hunting in your locale, that if you'd asked enough questions, of enough bureaucrats, with the right combinations of buzz words (ie.: be sure to mention "digging", "holes", "treasure", "antiquities", and then follow it up with a contract for them to sign), that you WOULD INDEED have gotten a "no".

So the fact that cops don't care isn't final enough. Now please go do the right thing, and ask. Oh, and be sure to show up with a shovel in your hand, lest they not get the proper mental images