Doesnt Take Long for the Sick and Twisted

[nsdq]

Re: Doesn't Take Long for the Sick and Twisted

but it is ok for the us govt to bull doze a my family cem down to make a road with out relocating the remains,,,,,,,,

 

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[diggummup]

Re: Doesn't Take Long for the Sick and Twisted

but it is ok for the us govt to bull doze a my family cem down to make a road with out relocating the remains,,,,,,,,

Sure, what's the problem?




Sorry, just being facetious.

 

[NewsMan]

Re: Doesn't Take Long for the Sick and Twisted

but it is ok for the us govt to bull doze a my family cem down to make a road with out relocating the remains,,,,,,,,

Better than some idiot dressed in camo with a headlamp in the middle of the night tearing it up looking for a buckle and buttons, no?

 

[nsdq]

Re: Doesn't Take Long for the Sick and Twisted

but it is ok for the us govt to bull doze a my family cem down to make a road with out relocating the remains,,,,,,,,

Better than some idiot dressed in camo with a headlamp in the middle of the night tearing it up looking for a buckle and buttons, no?

they said we were full of it, and no one buried there because they didnt see grave marker made of stone,,,, family was poor back in the 1800s,, they plant shurbs and flowers to mark them

 

[buzzgator]

Re: Doesn't Take Long for the Sick and Twisted

Nsdq, there is a grave yard like that on some property I arrowhead hunt only 2 headstones but I figure at least 20 unmarked graves judging by the depressions in the ground. I arrowhead hunt and metal detect the area but wouldnt dig a known grave. Now a mound on the other hand is different not all mounds are burial mounds and if its your property go for it and if you happen to find remains treat them with respect and bury them.

 

[NewsMan]

Re: Doesn't Take Long for the Sick and Twisted

Now a mound on the other hand is different not all mounds are burial mounds and if its your property go for it...

Not true in all states. Better check your laws. Give me a hypothetical of what else some mound on your property could be. I'm interested. People like you know what they are doing and they use this, "I didn't know it was an indian mound" crap to try to legitimize it. Sounds like my ex wife saying anything to convince herself she is right.

 

[NewsMan]

Re: Doesn't Take Long for the Sick and Twisted

but it is ok for the us govt to bull doze a my family cem down to make a road with out relocating the remains,,,,,,,,

I'm sure it happens, but it is not the norm. There are laws protecting cemeteries. Still has nothing to do with treasure hunters raiding indian burial sites... which happens much more than the government bulldozing a cemetery, I'm guessing. Sorry about your kin.

 

[diggummup]

Re: Doesn't Take Long for the Sick and Twisted

Not true in all states. Better check your laws. Give me a hypothetical of what else some mound on your property could be. I'm interested. People like you know what they are doing and they use this, "I didn't know it was an indian mound" crap to try to legitimize it. Sounds like my ex wife saying anything to convince herself she is right.

That'd be a midden mound, next.

 

[buzzgator]

Re: Doesn't Take Long for the Sick and Twisted

People like me?! You seem to be a smart guy but comments like that make one wonder. Like I said not all mounds are burial mounds, if you research it just a little you will see that the higher up the food chain a family was the higher there homes were built. There were extensive excavations at Wickliffe, Cahokia and many other mound sites and from what I know about them not all mounds contained human remains. As far as justifying it by saying I didnt know, how do archies justify looting tombs and moving the remains thousands of miles away? I guess its ok if your doing it for a university or museum? Not tryin to be confrontational just expressing my opinion on the subject. And yes I do know the laws in the states I hunt, if you dont ur a fool!

 

[buzzgator]

Re: Doesn't Take Long for the Sick and Twisted

Ceremonial, viewing, home, worship, and how about just for looks?

 

[buzzgator]

Re: Doesn't Take Long for the Sick and Twisted

Effigy mounds and middens. Goverment and archies have destroyed far more mounds in the name of progress/research than private citizens. St Louis aka mound city unknown number of mounds destroyed in the name of progress!

 

[centfladigger]

Re: Doesn't Take Long for the Sick and Twisted

burial mounds and burial ground, how do they know the "grounds" were used for burials? flakes debitage and the assorted stone tools? that doesnt make a burial. I have seen plenty of mounds with NOTHING in it, bones disintegrate fairly quick depending on the acidicy of the soild, even teeth/enamel which is the hardest substance in our body.
Our Fl archaic indians buried the dead bundled and in ponds staked to the bottom, that action actually preserved the burial since no oxygen was able to reach the burial. Lake Okeechobee was the same way a few years back in a drought, bundle burials everywhere, historic sites all over. Game and FIsh couldnt patrol the whole place, so they arrest and show force to scare people from coming down.
The laws ares skewed and all favor the governing of the states. Not all collectors are in it for the money or to have the goodies from a burial.
As for the pot with roots at a night time dig? please , I have dug at night for over 20 years because its a heck of alot cooler. I have found 3 pots at my sites that could have been or could not have been a burial, no mounds flat surface sinkhole nearby flakes and debitage covering the 115 acre orange grove. A pot nor an arrowhead make a burial.
Midden mounds are more abundant and are nothing but working areas, I have found human bones in some but those are lone isolated burials, mostly animal bones greasy black cooking areas.
Dont be quick to look down on others that do what you wont do, doesnt make them all looters out for easy money. Arch`s are hampered with funding for most sites, how much can they dig up and put away in boxes in a basement? Dig one dig em all I dont care.

 

[NewsMan]

Re: Doesn't Take Long for the Sick and Twisted

I won't argue that the bookworms tear stuff up. SAt least they learn from what they find. You all just dig and tear out before others can and get ZERO historical value out of it.

 

[buzzgator]

Re: Doesn't Take Long for the Sick and Twisted

Who says we dont learn? Thats an assinine comment! Most known sites were found by people like me that get out there and beat the brush, walk the fields, explore the bluffs and creeks, really who do you think does these surveys? Not many phd?s thats for sure. As for educating/recording most of the best finds have come from us amateurs, Harlan Soenker, Mark Birdsong, Bob Rampani just to name a few that have made outstanding contributions toward what we know about native american culture and stone tools. So please save your breath and instead of criticizing try giving credit where its due.

 

[diggummup]

Re: Doesn't Take Long for the Sick and Twisted

I won't argue that the bookworms tear stuff up. SAt least they learn from what they find. You all just dig and tear out before others can and get ZERO historical value out of it.

I'll give you this much... you don't give up easy, even when your outnumbered, out of ammo and surrounded by enemy forces with their guns drawn and aimed right at you. Unfortunately, your fighting a losing battle and death is inevitable, unless the white flag is flown.

 

[Jeffro]

Re: Doesn't Take Long for the Sick and Twisted

Article clearly says burial sites were disturbed and needed to be repaired. Enough said. That is all that I am referring to.

It cost 30,000 dollars to fill in a hole someone dug with a shovel? Really?
Seems to me the gubmint would be money ahead hiring security guards....
Please tell me with a straight face that you have never been in possession of an arrowhead or fossil?

Dude... talk about the topic. Don't present me with hypotheticals. Do you think it is cool to dig up graves or not. Simple, really.

Nice sidestepping.... No I don't think think its cool to dig graves. Point in my previous posts were to the effect of I don't believe all 30 or so people that were cited were out there with the intention of digging up graves either. I would wager that most were "lookie-lou's" out for an arrowhead...... You believe different, that most, if not all were looters and pillagers.... hey think what you want, but there is no indication of that from this story.


Now answer my question- have you yourself ever been in possession of the same articles?

 

[NewsMan]

Re: Doesn't Take Long for the Sick and Twisted

I'm not side stepping anything. I am clear on what I think is cool and what isn't. I have NO problem with collecting anything whether it be arrowheads or mini balls. I just don't like people pulling apart historical structures to do it, whether a grave or not. I think it sucks that there are beautiful sites that have withstood decades, centuries or longer - only to be tore apart by a treasure hunter. IF such things should EVER be taken apart, I believe stuff like that should be left to the archeologists and not the first random guy that happens along with a shovel. Sorry... that's how I feel. Whether it's a mound (burial or not), earthworks or whatever. I mean there are no graves in earthworks and I think people digging in them are asshats too. Just my opinion.
[/quote]
Now answer my question- have you yourself ever been in possession of the same articles?
[/quote]
My brother found a nice spearhead on his land. Held that once, but other than that, no.

 

[buzzgator]

Re: Doesn't Take Long for the Sick and Twisted

Well even tho we have different opinions I can respect yours, but that doesnt mean I agree with you. States and federal government destroy artifacts and sites all the time but all I hear from you is how bad it is for private collectors to dig artifacts. One of my properties is a beautiful hill that I have found everything from paleo to historic artifacts on. The state decided to put a road thru it even tho I am sure their archies found relics there during their survey. There is another hwy project going on on my inlaws property and it is going to take out a section of bluffs that I have found artifacts around. You stated you have never owned a arrowhead yet you seemed to KNOW that a picture on here of a pot came from a mound? You talked about digging a minnie ball, how do you know there wasnt a battle field burial where you dug it? I think maybe you looked for arrowheads once didnt find anything then you come on here see all the great finds made by us amatuers and just assume they had to come from mounds. I will continue to dig as I am sure others will as well. Have a great night!

 

[NewsMan]

Re: Doesn't Take Long for the Sick and Twisted

Well even tho we have different opinions I can respect yours, but that doesnt mean I agree with you. States and federal government destroy artifacts and sites all the time but all I hear from you is how bad it is for private collectors to dig artifacts. One of my properties is a beautiful hill that I have found everything from paleo to historic artifacts on. The state decided to put a road thru it even tho I am sure their archies found relics there during their survey. There is another hwy project going on on my inlaws property and it is going to take out a section of bluffs that I have found artifacts around. You stated you have never owned a arrowhead yet you seemed to KNOW that a picture on here of a pot came from a mound? You talked about digging a minnie ball, how do you know there wasnt a battle field burial where you dug it? I think maybe you looked for arrowheads once didnt find anything then you come on here see all the great finds made by us amatuers and just assume they had to come from mounds. I will continue to dig as I am sure others will as well. Have a great night!

Nope. Don't collect - nor ever have collected - native stuff. As for being able to tell that pot was coming out of a mound: Simple educated deduction. The evidence in the picture suggested nothing less.

Regardless, nothing I say will change what people do. Enjoy picking through that mound or those earthworks. Tell your kids about it since they won't be there when they grow up. Checking out. Later.

 

[Jeffro]

Re: Doesn't Take Long for the Sick and Twisted

Hmmm, didn't see any mounds or earthworks or gravemarkers for that matter on that original video......


As a matter of fact, I believe the story said it was buried underwater for many years?


The "sites" depicted were nothing more than flat-ass lake bed.


Still saying most of those cited for violations were operating under word of mouth.... "Hey I heard they found some cool arrowheads down by the lake......" Rather than being out and out graverobbers.... but hey, you believe what you want. Peace, out.