This hobby...

[bigscoop]

I'm thinking of writing a basic synopsis of the permit concept and how it could be setup, administered, and used to better everyone's interest. From here this synopsis could be copied on-line and sent to the appropriate lawmakers in force by everyone in the treasure hunting community. If you've not been keeping up on things, Florida is prime for this type of thing right now and it has the numbers, both resident and non-resident, to generate some really impressive revenues. And I think there is the right supporting mechanics in place for this type of thing in Florida right now. I don't know, still kicking it around?

 

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[gleaner1]

Metal detecting is illegal in some areas. Your feelings, although mixed, are not indicative of true tecting reality for most people. The sky is falling, the sky is falling.

 

[gleaner1]

Permit shmermit. You need a permit in NY State to hunt State parks, been that way for over twenty years, can only hunt in water or sand areas. Other than that, the only thing you need to detect is permission. Just get it and have fun. Cover your holes and haul out the trash.

 

[Twisted One]

Metal detecting is illegal in some areas. Your feelings, although mixed, are not indicative of true tecting reality for most people. The sky is falling, the sky is falling.

Just remember several versions of Chicken Little showed he was right in the end, and saved the doubters. You can sit on the sideline and talk about how it isn't going to happen, or you can be the reason it isn't going to happen.

 

[bigscoop]

Metal detecting is illegal in some areas. Your feelings, although mixed, are not indicative of true tecting reality for most people. The sky is falling, the sky is falling.

Yes. The sky is falling, all around us. And if we do nothing? And as far as reality, sadly, money is also a big part of that reality, especially in these hard economic times. At present archeologist are facing a lot of possible funding cuts, which also helps to open minds and ears. There will always be places that we can't hunt so why not try to preserve those places that we can hunt instead of waiting in silence for the rest of the sky to fall?

 

[gleaner1]

I am a bit facetious. I dont need permits or permission to metal detect in NY, except in NYS parks. Do I think that will change? Not a snowball's chance in hell, stupid tv shows not withstanding. Metal tectin been around for forty plus years. Metal detecting is not harmful to the public. This topic is old hat and a sorry attempt to provoke nonsensical argument over a non issue. See you at the park, or the school, or the playground, or the beach, or a certain Mr. Jones back lawn near you, soon, and in the far future. Nobody cares about metal detecting, as long as you do not trespass or damage property. That's as simple as it gets. Metal detecting doomsday is not happening. Just not gonna happen.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

" ....so why not try to preserve those places that we can hunt instead of waiting in silence for the rest of the sky to fall ..."

Guys -guys-guys, re.: all this talk of asking bureaucrats to implement permits, etc... Please be careful. Do NOT do this at any place where there is not currently some reason to be doing so. Because what invariably happens, when skittish people read threads like this, they really do think "the sky is falling" and "oh no, I must grovel at every city hall I come to lest I be arrested" blah blah blah. And oddly, when they go seeking clarifications, permission, and suggesting implementation of permits, etc.... guess what happens? Places where it was never a problem before (that they thought they better "pre-empt a problem"), end up getting rules and clarifications to "address this pressing issue".

Lest you think I'm making this up, let me give you an example: Some years back, Utah's state park's dept. headquarters sent out a memo to the rank & file rangers of each state park. The letter/memo was to clarify the state park dept's stance on the use of detectors in the state parks. It went on to spell out dire restrictions ("cultural heritage" blah blah blah, you know the drill). But what was VERY telling in the letter, was the opening statements. It read something to the effect of: "The state park's dept's receives numerous inquiries each year, regarding the use of metal detectors in state parks. The following will serve to clarify the dept's stance on this subject...." And it went on to spell out sad sounding restrictions.

Do you get it?? READ CLOSELY AGAIN the opening introduction. Apparently prior to this, it was apparently silent on the issue. And perhaps no one cared (barring obvious historic monuments, of course). But given the "numerous inquiries", look what happens? Someone in state capitol "addresses this pressing issue", and presto, invents (or clarifies, etc...) rules. And of course, you know what the easy answer is!

So people, please, I know "permits" sounds so inviting, and rolls off the tongue. But for pete's sake don't go asking for them at places where there is no rules (or imminent talk of rules) against you. But otherwise, you risk a self-fulfilling prophecy against you, by simply making yourself a big red "x" squeeky wheel. I can give you multiple similar examples. For pete's sake can't we all just learn to be a little discreet? If you're waiting for archie's to love you, and parks with neon signs saying "metal detecting welcome here", I fear you have chosen the wrong hobby.

 

[gleaner1]

Tom_in_CA just cut the legs off this whole topic of nothingness and put it into a deep sleep at about 6+ feet under forever. BAM!. Tom, you da man!!

 

[bigscoop]

Gleaner, Tom.....not going to debate this same old issue with you, your opinion is always welcome and yours to express however you wish. Just keep in mind that this is something much deeper then comparing it to disgruntled MDer's facing off with authority, or the questioning of existing restrictions. This is about the proposing of a mutually advantageous program for everyone. i.e., "If" it can even be done, not too likely they would eventually pass so many bills and restrictions that it kills the source of the funding that feeds it.

By the way, since you're both so well informed.....fill us in what has changed/been challenged in Florida in the last 5 or 6 years as far as MDing & treasure hunting restrictions go? Silence is golden, right?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

bigscoop, bringing up the recent FL issue, is not a good example to give, for this topic. Because in that case, there WAS potential verbage, actually imminent (facing a vote, etc....). So the solidarity there WAS very appropriate, on our parts. But go back to my post above, and notice that I make room for this type exception, when I said:

"Do NOT do this at any place where there is not currently some reason to be doing so. "

 

[bigscoop]

bigscoop, bringing up the recent FL issue, is not a good example to give, for this topic. Because in that case, there WAS potential verbage, actually imminent (facing a vote, etc....). So the solidarity there WAS very appropriate, on our parts. But go back to my post above, and notice that I make room for this type exception, when I said:

"Do NOT do this at any place where there is not currently some reason to be doing so. "

"And there is reason for my posting what I've been posting." I can tell you now with 100% certainty that these new shows, and a couple others that are preparing to air, are already under the microscope of those parties who are hell bent on putting any "recorded" issue they can in front of lawmakers. Trust me, we were much better off with just a few disgruntled MDers/treasure hunters facing off with authorities and a line of people asking questions about restrictions. That was child's play compared to what is coming in the very near future.

 

[Twisted One]

Tom, interested in an MXT Pro?

 

[gleaner1]

I am a 37 y/o long time detectorist (started when I was 7) and have seen many changes in this hobby. Years ago no one cared if you hunted their property. The parks and schoolyards were wide open to detect and we were pretty much protected from fanfare. Now after seeing AD last night I have mixed feelings about its effect on MDing. Will more people enter this hobby? MAYBE. Will landowners question our intent to hunt their property so we can profit from it? YES FOR SURE. MDing to me is a hobby and I love it. I dont sell anything and I have my very first wheats that I found. Id rather find an 1906 IH than find a Rev War button. Id rather find an 1940 wheatie, than find $5 in quarters. To me its all about the actual hunt and wondering who lost that coin or button and what was their life like back then. By no means is this an easy hobby. It was much easier finding a silver quarter with my Whites 4000D S3 detector in 1983 than finding that same quarter with my Whites V3i today. The reason...simple...quarters are larger and have a greater surface area so they dont sink as deep as lets say a dime does. Many areas today are "hunted out" ( not until I have done them as I say) to the usual detectorist. So if newbies come into this hobby thinking they will get $5000 for a bear trap, I think they will be disappointed. I would like to see a permit system everywhere and charge like $100 per permit. This will limit the number of people and provide some reasonable money to the municipality so its worth it. Just my 2¢

Your post is laughable. No, really.

 

[Twisted One]

Tom you know I have discussed this same thing with you on many occasions and I understand your position and whole heartedly agree. Don't go to a war that doesn't exist. Don't ask permission to detect on public property. If it is against the rules it should be posted somewhere. Ask permission and be respectful no matter the answer on private property. Fill your wholes, take your trash, etc...

My main concern is that I am seeing the same BS I have seen in many other hobbies I have had. I started collecting knives when I was 6. Mostly decor pieces, Gil Hibbens, Kit Rae, United Cutlery, Frost, etc... I did not know the laws and regulations on them at the time, but once I had my own job at 16 and had some money I decided to go to a local knife show and try to pick up a few of the pieces I missed over the year. None of them were there. Why? Recent regulations in California at that time restricted owning the majority of them. After that I could not purchase them in California, I could not buy them online and have them shipped to California.

Got into cars at that point, lets see, we built up our stereos, they outlaw loud stereo systems, ditch the stereos and lower the cars, they change the law to include a minimum height a car can be. Ditch the car buy a truck, they close 90% of the OHV areas due to budget, jack up the truck and they add a maximum height limit to the law. Tint the windows, the add a stipulation that you have to have a doctors prescription to tint anything other than your back window, and the top 25% of the windshield. Etc.... the list goes on.

I can make the same points about 99% of the hobbies I have been involved in over the years, and it all boils down to the same problem. When the community reaches a certain level, the opposition arises, and laws start to be written. If there was a couple of lowered cars, with bumping stereos, and tinted windows running around town, would they bother writing a law?

I am afraid Tom this hobby is reaching that level. I don't know if it is part of the poor economy or what, but it is becoming popular, how do I know? The amazing amount of "Metal Detector wanted" ads on Craigslist, and fad TV shows.

I don't intend to claim the sky is falling, but I have seen it fall on several other hobbies, and I am seeing all of the same signs for this one.

 

[gleaner1]

Yadda frikin yadda laddy da. I wonder what the op thinks of all this crap. Not.

 

[Twisted One]

Yadda frikin yadda laddy da. I wonder what the op thinks of all this crap. Not.

If you don't care, than why to you continue to read?

 

[Twisted One]

As if you all need anymore evidence that it only take a small group of people with an agenda create conflict in a hobby. A recent bill being proposed from a California Congressman attacking another hobby.[FONT='Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]H.R. 4204 is being proposed by Congressmen Joe Baca and Frank Wolf which would impose a mandatory warning label on all video games. The warning label would be similar to ones found on cigarettes and would read: “Warning: Exposure to violent video games has been linked to aggressive behavior.[/FONT]”

Come on driving in 5 o'clock traffic creates more aggressive behavior than any video game.

 

[gleaner1]

Yadda frikin yadda laddy da. I wonder what the op thinks of all this crap. Not.

If you don't care, than why to you continue to read?

I care. Address the topic, not me. You yourself said you dont want to start a war. So dont start a war. You war monger. Pick your fights carefully. Why do you continue to read? Why is there air?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Twisted one, thanx for your input, and for giving my stance fair thought.

I have not watched any of these new reality shows. Perhaps some non-md'rs are? And that in their anger they will rush to dream up things like the FL situation? Do you really think that is imminent? I mean, sure, ANYTHING is possible. All I can say is, that 25+ years ago, when the FMDAC was a new organization, they sent out their monthly mailers. Those were read aloud at each club meeting. And it was the same thing back then: "Do something now, pre-empt laws", "go in and ask everywhere lest you be arrested" and "coming to a city or state near you", etc.... And if md'rs didn't worry, they were warned: "you'll be sorry, don't say I didn't warn you", etc.... That was 25+ yrs. ago.

So immediately they went out and asked for clarifications, permits, etc... (afterall, you can't argue with the scary stories read aloud at each meeting, can you?). And the odd thing was, that some of them were getting "no's", where it had never been a problem before. See how the psychology works?

That's all I'm saying is, be careful. I personally do not envision the average Joe city councilman or county supervisor type watching that junk on TV. And therefore I think the bigger danger is in asking for some sort of sanctions, permits, etc... For example: I heard of one club in one city "successfully" lobby their city to get "permits" (not sure if there had ever been a prohibition, or talk of prohibition, to begin with). Well guess what their "permit" allowed them to do? Can't have a digger tool over 3" long, can't dig more than xx" deep, and so forth. Huh? I'm just more afraid of the permits you think are a good idea, ending up just regulating us out of existence, when in fact, perhaps nothing ever would have become of it.

There is another principle of psychology called "projection". Have you ever heard of that? That's where you or I read or see something, and have a certain reaction to it (like, dislike, guilt, anger, etc...). And we "project" that we assume others see and feel the same way. Mind you the average guy flipping through the channels is not into metal detecting (just like perhaps you aren't into watching the Kardashians, or the home-shopping channel, or a televangelist, etc...). But for you and I, we ARE into metal detecting, so we intently tune into it. The "projection" part comes into play, that we assume (subconsciously) that so too do a bunch of others. But just like the home shopping channel or the kardashians, only a very small subset of persons actually watch such niche stuff like this. And the same "projection" comes with our visceral reaction to it (the anger of the supposed property owner who yelling at them to stop, etc...), because we read a million threads on-line about "how this is going to ruin the hobby". Again we "project" that everyone else has this same reaction, and every cares a less like we do, about a metal detecting program, so they must all certainly have been tuned in, etc....

 

[bigscoop]

Tom,
My stance on this issue has never been an active one, quite often much like yours. You need to be asking yourself what has changed? And you probably need to stop debating without knowledge, you said, "I have not watched any of these new reality shows". Perhaps, before you enter a debate involving them, you should have some knowledge about them? And you should probably have knowledge about other things, i.e., Archies are already lobbying and sending letters.......