River hunting question

[SCDigginWithAK]

What are the laws regarding river/creek detecting? I would think they're public right? Do I need permission? I got 2 awesome spots but I'm a bit weary. I talked to one guy and he said they are public since the government owned them is this true? Thanks- SCDigginWithAK

 

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[HutSiteDigger]

You have to check your state/local laws on that.. Here in Virginia you can pretty much from what i know metal detect in any river, i know a guy who use to river dive for cannon balls and such on the Rappahannock River in Va!! I know you can detect on the Potomac river and creeks, unless of course it's on national park land.. But I don't know the laws governing SC - i wouldn't think it would be a problem..

 

[SCDigginWithAK]

You have to check your state/local laws on that.. Here in Virginia you can pretty much from what i know metal detect in any river, i know a guy who use to river dive for cannon balls and such on the Rappahannock River in Va!! I know you can detect on the Potomac river and creeks, unless of course it's on national park land.. But I don't know the laws governing SC - i wouldn't think it would be a problem..

How would I go about finding laws about rivers? Thanks HutSiteDigger

 

[Tom_in_CA]

How would I go about finding laws about rivers? Thanks HutSiteDigger

scdiggin, "rivers" can be going through a multitude of different types of entities. I mean, there's no one category of "river" for whether or not "metal detecting is ok". Because a river can either be on federal, state, county, city, or private. And even within state and federal (for instance) there are .... even there .... multiple types of state or federal land it could be. Like in other words, not all federal land is federal PARK land. And not all state land is state PARK land. So for example, just because a certain state might have dire sounding wording in their state park's codes, does not mean that "all state land is off-limits". Since, of course, what you're reading only applies to state PARKs, and not other types of state land. For example: road right-of-way is an example of state land, that is not "park" land, and so forth.

But let's cut to the chase here: you say you've got a few "awesome spots". Is that to assume you've been out to them, and seen and looked at them? Then if so, I would assume that the mere fact of being there (standing their looking at them) was not unusual, or illegal, etc.... In other words, the mere fact of being there was not an issue, right? Well then, assuming you're not in some sort of obvious historic monument, then why would you think that metal detecting is somehow inherently evil, that you can't do it? If it were me, and barring something obvious as a glaring monument park sacred place, I'd just do it.

But if you're really skittish, you're welcome to study the assessor's and topo maps (which have color codes) to see who owns what. But it's going to get complicated, because depending on how close to the water's edge you're talking about, minute boundries get very exacting. For example: "navigable rivers" (those that can handle boats of a certain size, for shipping or whatever) are accessible. However, I suppose that would only be up to the high water mark (ie.: as long as you're on the shores). But personally, if you're just talking random rivers not on some sort of sensitive monument, and places where you or anyone can already just walk, go, fly frisbees, etc.... then .... I'd do it.

 

[SCDigginWithAK]

scdiggin, "rivers" can be going through a multitude of different types of entities. I mean, there's no one category of "river" for whether or not "metal detecting is ok". Because a river can either be on federal, state, county, city, or private. And even within state and federal (for instance) there are .... even there .... multiple types of state or federal land it could be. Like in other words, not all federal land is federal PARK land. And not all state land is state PARK land. So for example, just because a certain state might have dire sounding wording in their state park's codes, does not mean that "all state land is off-limits". Since, of course, what you're reading only applies to state PARKs, and not other types of state land. For example: road right-of-way is an example of state land, that is not "park" land, and so forth. But let's cut to the chase here: you say you've got a few "awesome spots". Is that to assume you've been out to them, and seen and looked at them? Then if so, I would assume that the mere fact of being there (standing their looking at them) was not unusual, or illegal, etc.... In other words, the mere fact of being there was not an issue, right? Well then, assuming you're not in some sort of obvious historic monument, then why would you think that metal detecting is somehow inherently evil, that you can't do it? If it were me, and barring something obvious as a glaring monument park sacred place, I'd just do it. But if you're really skittish, you're welcome to study the assessor's and topo maps (which have color codes) to see who owns what. But it's going to get complicated, because depending on how close to the water's edge you're talking about, minute boundries get very exacting. For example: "navigable rivers" (those that can handle boats of a certain size, for shipping or whatever) are accessible. However, I suppose that would only be up to the high water mark (ie.: as long as you're on the shores). But personally, if you're just talking random rivers not on some sort of sensitive monument, and places where you or anyone can already just walk, go, fly frisbees, etc.... then .... I'd do it.

Thanks tom. I was wondering to have proof since one is in the bad part of town and cops go by it frequently. No it's not a monument just a random river/creek. I think there was a ford at that one and I know it ran through a WW1 camp and soldiers had to cross it. Yes I did get out and look. It's pretty shallow so that will be fun. Another is a creek that locals have nicknamed Musketball creek (used to find musket balls in it) soldiers washed their clothes in it. Thanks again.

Edit: a Does it matter that I have to walk across private property to get there? Maybe like 3 feet of property literally.

 

[SCDigginWithAK]

Well I think I'm going to a creek. Probably cold oh well wish me luck!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Thanks tom. I was wondering to have proof since one is in the bad part of town and cops go by it frequently. No it's not a monument just a random river/creek. I think there was a ford at that one and I know it ran through a WW1 camp and soldiers had to cross it. Yes I did get out and look. It's pretty shallow so that will be fun. Another is a creek that locals have nicknamed Musketball creek (used to find musket balls in it) soldiers washed their clothes in it. Thanks again.

Edit: a Does it matter that I have to walk across private property to get there? Maybe like 3 feet of property literally.

sc-diggin, I'll try to take a stab at your questions: If the issue is that a river is through a "bad part of town" (as you say, so let's put entities of passage aside for the moment), .... then let me assure you: The cops in those "bad parts of town" probably have better things to do then wonder about metal detector guys.

I'm trying to get the "visual" in my mind of what you're saying, but I'm imagining a river/creek passage that goes through the blighted district, and is thus strewn with derelict camps, shopping carts, etc.... eh ? So really now, if all those people can be there (short-cut trails, homeless camps, blah blah) and cops must come stop drug deals and such, then ..... do you really think cops care about a guy metal detecting? I mean, sure, anything's possible, but .... realistically ? I have hunted such sites in the past (when old-town urban demolitions tear out a building in our china-town district, and .... trust me ... a guy with a metal detector is the least thing on their mind). Heck, they probably appreciate a "normal" person being there. Doh! But then again, not sure the exact "visual" of what you say when you describe this "river".

As for the "3 ft. of private property", Sheesk, 3 ft? Is it fenced? If not, (or even if it IS), for "3 ft." you can just jump over it, eh? And hence not even have ever set foot on the said-place. Are you seriously concerned about that too dude? Jump over it if so. I mean, ... what the heck ?

 

[SCDigginWithAK]

sc-diggin, I'll try to take a stab at your questions: If the issue is that a river is through a "bad part of town" (as you say, so let's put entities of passage aside for the moment), .... then let me assure you: The cops in those "bad parts of town" probably have better things to do then wonder about metal detector guys. I'm trying to get the "visual" in my mind of what you're saying, but I'm imagining a river/creek passage that goes through the blighted district, and is thus strewn with derelict camps, shopping carts, etc.... eh ? So really now, if all those people can be there (short-cut trails, homeless camps, blah blah) and cops must come stop drug deals and such, then ..... do you really think cops care about a guy metal detecting? I mean, sure, anything's possible, but .... realistically ? I have hunted such sites in the past (when old-town urban demolitions tear out a building in our china-town district, and .... trust me ... a guy with a metal detector is the least thing on their mind. Heck, they probably appreciate a "normal" person being there. Doh! But then again, not sure the exact "visual" of what you say when you describe this "river". As for the "3 ft. of private property", Sheesk, is it fenced? If not, (or even if it IS), anyone here can simply jump or hop 3 ft. in a standing broad jump to jump over a length that small. And hence not even have ever set foot on the said-place. Are you seriously concerned about that too dude? Jump over it if so. Sheesk.

Hahahaha. You have some good points there. Regarding the going across land you never know with people around here. You'd be surprised! But thanks tom you have some good points and I'm gonna go for it. Thanks again. I have a good gut feeling about the spot that I can't really access right now. Thanks and happy hunting!

 

[SCDigginWithAK]

Hahahaha. You have some good points there. Regarding the going across land you never know with people around here. You'd be surprised! But thanks tom you have some good points and I'm gonna go for it. Thanks again. I have a good gut feeling about the spot that I can't really access right now. Thanks and happy hunting!

Anyways as I've learned from some guys on here "it's better to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission". Im actually doing this for historical importance in the county. Trying to prove something was there.

 

[Helix]

Are you talking about mding the water only or just the bank or both? Here in Il. as long as the river or stream is "navigable", if you can float or use a canoe, small craft like that it's public. The bank or high water mark is were the privet property starts. I have seen land owners here that think other wise, were they put up a fence across a 40' wide stream. From what you describe about the area I would be more worried about getting mugged or being harassed by the property owners who own up to the river then the police. Or find public area of shore and wade to were ever ya want go, canoe works good also.

 

[SCDigginWithAK]

Are you talking about mding the water only or just the bank or both? Here in Il. as long as the river or stream is "navigable", if you can float or use a canoe, small craft like that it's public. The bank or high water mark is were the privet property starts. I have seen land owners here that think other wise, were they put up a fence across a 40' wide stream. From what you describe about the area I would be more worried about getting mugged or being harassed by the property owners who own up to the river then the police. Or find public area of shore and wade to were ever ya want go, canoe works good also.

The water. The one I really want to detect isn't in the bad part of town luckily. My father knows most of the people around it so i might be ok. I'm more worried about that one than the one in the bad part. Thanks guys ill go detecting once the brush dies. It's way to thick to get to the river without trespassing or jumping off a ledge and hopefully will be able to get back up haha.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

... "it's better to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission .......

well, I'm not so sure I'd go THAT far to invoke that old saying. Because the second you say that, it merely implies that something is inherently wrong with it, or that some law is being broken, to begin with. So .... since that's not an established fact (that there actually anything saying you can't), then ... I'd distance myself from that saying. But sure, if someone DID come along and appraise you otherwise, then sure, you apologize, don't be confrontational, etc...

next you say:

I'm actually doing this for historical importance in the county. Trying to prove something was there.

This is, believe it or not, how a lot of our dug history in museums came-to-be, to begin with (barring the things dugs by archies). The museum I docent at has a portion of an early 1800s cannon, that was dug in the early 1970s, by a hobbyist in my part of CA. He dug it on a site, which ...... I suppose ..... if you asked enough people, would tell you "you can't detect there" (it's a historic monument). However, in the early 1970s, there simply wasn't the degree of archaeological awareness that there is now. So people back then, just helped themselves. Oh sure, they had the "presence of mind" not to be any eyesore. But other than that, no one really paid any mind to them. 35 yrs. later, he donated the piece to the city, and it's now on display in the museum. Utterly no mention is made on the dossier of the origin (other than "dug ...."). The only reason I know, is that I know the guy who found it, and donated it. Doh!

 

[SCDigginWithAK]

well, I'm not so sure I'd go THAT far to invoke that old saying. Because the second you say that, it merely implies that something is inherently wrong with it, or that some law is being broken, to begin with. So .... since that's not an established fact (that there actually anything saying you can't), then ... I'd distance myself from that saying. But sure, if someone DID come along and appraise you otherwise, then sure, you apologize, don't be confrontational, etc... next you say: This is, believe it or not, how a lot of our dug history in museums came-to-be, to begin with (barring the things dugs by archies). The museum I docent at has a portion of an early 1800s cannon, that was dug in the early 1970s, by a hobbyist in my part of CA. He dug it on a site, which ...... I suppose ..... if you asked enough people, would tell you "you can't detect there" (it's a historic monument). However, in the early 1970s, there simply wasn't the degree of archaeological awareness that there is now. So people back then, just helped themselves. Oh sure, they had the "presence of mind" not to be any eyesore. But other than that, no one really paid any mind to them. 35 yrs. later, he donated the piece to the city, and it's now on display in the museum. Utterly no mention is made on the dossier of the origin (other than "dug ...."). The only reason I know, is that I know the guy who found it, and donated it. Doh!

Yeah FUTURE READERS IGNORE THAT PART haha. And I really hope I can prove it. I have pretty good proof but of course I gotta know for sure!

 

[HutSiteDigger]

Actually i just found out today you need a permit to do it here in Virginia.... Permits for everything it seems... argh.

 

[SCDigginWithAK]

Actually i just found out today you need a permit to do it here in Virginia.... Permits for everything it seems... argh.

Uh oh!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

Actually i just found out today you need a permit to do it here in Virginia.... Permits for everything it seems... argh.

Whatever "permit" you have found, does not automatically mean "everything in the entire state of Virginia, from border to border". Or "all rivers in Virginia", or whatever. Whatever it is you've found, would only apply to the specific entity of whatever/wherever it is you're reading at. Example: only state parks (and not even therefore all stand land, but only state parks, in that case). Or whatever the case may be.

Such is the case of the FMDAC's state-by-state list: A lot of people read something dire on there, and assume it applies to the "whole state", or "all state land", etc... Not the case.

 

[BosnMate]

In Oregon the state owns all the ocean beaches, period. They allow MD'ing with a permit, specific to that beach. The permit requires that you turn in anything of value that you find, and if it isn't claimed in a certain amount of time, then it's yours. Up until my back injury a couple of years ago our local county parks didn't care if anyone metal detected. The last time I detected a park, I was told to leave, metal detecting was no longer allowed. I know nothing about rivers, but if you can get to the river in this county, then again with a permit, you can pan for gold, and nobody says anything. They don't want you panning during salmon spawning season on that deal, and they have cut way back on dredging.

 

[s.c.shooter]

If it's not posted private property then I say go for it and good luck. If it's posted for trespassing then I think it's supposed to be posted on all sides and every certain number of yards,all entry points etc.

 

[Tnmountains]

Anyways as I've learned from some guys on here "it's better to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission". Im actually doing this for historical importance in the county. Trying to prove something was there.

Well they watched some guys diving here on the Tn river and when they came up with a rifle barrel they arrested them and took their gear and boat. My take is they consider navigable water ways to be federal land. Small creeks not so much. It is a very sticky issue. Especially when it comes to digging the fines increase. Take an arrowhead. You can pick them up all day as long as you do not remove them from Fed lands.
Pretty messed up. Anything over 50 years old falls into the antiquity act. So in theory that 1950 wheat penny can cause you problems if removed. You are free to do as you please. I just would hate to see the grief something so silly can cause.