I haven't seen anybody talk about harmful EMF exposure and metal detecting. So I made a video talking about it...
Are Metal Detectors Harmful To Your Health? Dirty Electricity… EMF exposure...
- Thread starter Pauln
- Start date
Joe hunter
Bronze Member
- Mar 2, 2013
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I would like to see you test other everyday electronics tv microwave refrigerator car computer cellphone to see how they compare.
CWnut
Hero Member
- May 9, 2003
- 591
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very interesting, good topic for philosophy
mrwilburino
Hero Member
- May 7, 2010
- 680
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Interesting, but not really clear about what the source of the EMF is: the coil...control box....headphones? All of them?
XL-PRO PRO
Sr. Member
- Sep 18, 2008
- 252
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EMF transmitted from detectors is very harmful.Send all of these devices to me and I will see that they are properly disposed of!
- Thread starter
- #6
The main source is the coil. But if there are wired head phones it could be that also. Wireless are even worse.
- Thread starter
- #7
NO everyone send me your detector so I can test them and if you don't want them back I'll just keep them, LOL. I am not going to stop this amazing hobby, I just want people to be aware.
DizzyDigger
Gold Member
- Dec 9, 2012
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Pauln,
I know you mean well by sharing the info you have, so please understand
my comments are general ones, and not directed at you.
It's an MD's job to radiate signal.
A metal detector is an "Intentional Transmitter". It's entire function
is to radiate a field into the ground, and then measure the reflections.
Is it dangerous to your health? Not in the least unless you have
implanted electronic devices, and then you just need to stay a
couple feet from the coil itself.
First off, the testing is done in "open air", meaning there are thousands
of RF signals floating about, and going every which direction. How did
you know that the signals you're measuring are from the detector, and not
some other nearby source?
As for the "meter", well, it might be suitable for some relative measurements,
but no one should expect any kind of accuracy from such a device. You want
a real probe for this application?
Start here: Health & Safety - Probes & Monitors| ETS-Lindgren
Best be prepared to spend several thousand dollars for a quality
probe that has been calibrated for accuracy. (same for detecting
"ghosts", as that meter they walk around with is a complete joke.)
If you review the literature that came with your detector, there is mention
(somewhere) about the FCC and European standards the device has been
tested to. These tests are typically done in an anechoic chamber, where
there are no other RF signals present. The tests done must follow an established
procedure as outlined in the specific standard being tested to, and no device
can be sold without meeting these requirements.
The supposed EMF being measuring at the headphones is caused by the
vibration of the speaker magnet. The sounds we hear are acoustic frequencies,
so yes, when that magnet vibrates it creates an electro-magnetic response
in the 20 to 20,000 Hz range which the organs in our ears process and send
to the brain for recognition.
During the EMC testing phase of the product the entire unit is tested, and
this would include testing the detector with headphones. The detector
manufacturer does not make the headphones, but they do insure there
is no chance of conducted interference on that cable.
If you have a worn cable with bare wire showing, or bad connector it is possible
for your machine to radiate undesired signals, and it will also dramatically affect
the performance of the machine itself. These unintended radiated signals should
still not be strong enough to harm the health of anyone.
There ARE recommendations made by most of the electronic heart device manufacturers
that metal detectors should be kept a min. of 24" from the chest area where the
device is implanted. So, if you have an implanted heart defibrillator or pacemaker,
don't lay down on the coil, or sleep with it.
If you are serious about this concern, then the best way to deal with it is
to have your detector tested at a righteous, independent EMC test lab.
They can place the unit in their chamber, and can run all manner of tests
for you about how much and how far the signals radiate. It's not cheap,
at all, and lab rates are typically in the $500 hr. range. Still, if you are
worried about the issue it might put your fears to rest.
You can also do a Google search under: "EMC testing of metal detectors"
("EMC" means Electro-Magnetic Compatibility)
No idea where you are in the country, so check for a local EMC testing
facility in your area. Some have several offices, and from personal experience
I can recommend a few:
NorthWest EMC
CKC Labs
UL Labs
There's enough crap in life to fear, and getting cancer from your metal
detector ain't one of 'em.
Perhaps someone from White's, Fisher or one of the other large manufacturers
will jump in and share what standards they test to, and what methods are
employed in the testing.
I know you mean well by sharing the info you have, so please understand
my comments are general ones, and not directed at you.
It's an MD's job to radiate signal.
A metal detector is an "Intentional Transmitter". It's entire function
is to radiate a field into the ground, and then measure the reflections.
Is it dangerous to your health? Not in the least unless you have
implanted electronic devices, and then you just need to stay a
couple feet from the coil itself.
First off, the testing is done in "open air", meaning there are thousands
of RF signals floating about, and going every which direction. How did
you know that the signals you're measuring are from the detector, and not
some other nearby source?
As for the "meter", well, it might be suitable for some relative measurements,
but no one should expect any kind of accuracy from such a device. You want
a real probe for this application?
Start here: Health & Safety - Probes & Monitors| ETS-Lindgren
Best be prepared to spend several thousand dollars for a quality
probe that has been calibrated for accuracy. (same for detecting
"ghosts", as that meter they walk around with is a complete joke.)
If you review the literature that came with your detector, there is mention
(somewhere) about the FCC and European standards the device has been
tested to. These tests are typically done in an anechoic chamber, where
there are no other RF signals present. The tests done must follow an established
procedure as outlined in the specific standard being tested to, and no device
can be sold without meeting these requirements.
The supposed EMF being measuring at the headphones is caused by the
vibration of the speaker magnet. The sounds we hear are acoustic frequencies,
so yes, when that magnet vibrates it creates an electro-magnetic response
in the 20 to 20,000 Hz range which the organs in our ears process and send
to the brain for recognition.
During the EMC testing phase of the product the entire unit is tested, and
this would include testing the detector with headphones. The detector
manufacturer does not make the headphones, but they do insure there
is no chance of conducted interference on that cable.
If you have a worn cable with bare wire showing, or bad connector it is possible
for your machine to radiate undesired signals, and it will also dramatically affect
the performance of the machine itself. These unintended radiated signals should
still not be strong enough to harm the health of anyone.
There ARE recommendations made by most of the electronic heart device manufacturers
that metal detectors should be kept a min. of 24" from the chest area where the
device is implanted. So, if you have an implanted heart defibrillator or pacemaker,
don't lay down on the coil, or sleep with it.
If you are serious about this concern, then the best way to deal with it is
to have your detector tested at a righteous, independent EMC test lab.
They can place the unit in their chamber, and can run all manner of tests
for you about how much and how far the signals radiate. It's not cheap,
at all, and lab rates are typically in the $500 hr. range. Still, if you are
worried about the issue it might put your fears to rest.
You can also do a Google search under: "EMC testing of metal detectors"
("EMC" means Electro-Magnetic Compatibility)
No idea where you are in the country, so check for a local EMC testing
facility in your area. Some have several offices, and from personal experience
I can recommend a few:
NorthWest EMC
CKC Labs
UL Labs
There's enough crap in life to fear, and getting cancer from your metal
detector ain't one of 'em.
Perhaps someone from White's, Fisher or one of the other large manufacturers
will jump in and share what standards they test to, and what methods are
employed in the testing.
Last edited:
Frankn
Gold Member
We are surrounded by EMF radiation. I have worked in electronics for over 32 years. Now retired and do some electrical repairs from time to time. I have a screwdriver that tells me by flashing if a devise is hot. It will signal about 1 foot away. I can even pick up a signal from the wiring in the walls. Since I am 76, I would presume they are harmless! Frank...
- Jul 27, 2006
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That cell phone most of us use is far more dangerous...
SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM
We will NOT go quietly into the night!
SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM
We will NOT go quietly into the night!
TheRingFinder
Bronze Member
EMF ? Sure you don't mean EMI ? I actually install the Cell towers and equipment used by AT&T, Verizon etc. There has never been any type of warnings or issues with EMI or any other frequency modulation. I think this might be a scare tatic by someone?
- Thread starter
- #13
I am 100% sure Cell Phones and also working on cell phone towers causes cancer. I pray anyone working on the tower for a living quit that job. There is no doubt about it. The research out there is overwhelming. Even living near a cell phone tower is harmful. As for the meter, it does tell the the truth. Yes there are waves all over but the meter will measure what is being tested. There is a safe zone but if goes over that point for long term it is not healthy. As I said I don't want to scare anyone. I love this hobby and will not give it up, but if I personally test 5 detectors and 4 are okay but one is very high on the meter, I'd rather be safe than sorry. That being said, after I test the detectors I love the most, even if they are high on the emf meter I'd look for every excuse to keep it. 
Alan Applegate
Sr. Member
- Aug 20, 2013
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Talk about a cancer scare tactic!
For any radiation to be harmful to cell growth, it must be ionizing. At frequencies below about 500 MHz, that's a bit hard to do even at amateur radio power levels (1,500 watts legal maximum). As the frequency increases, it takes less power, but no handheld cellphone would ever be ionizing, even if it operated at 10 GHz! The reason is, their ERP (effective radiate power) is only a few milliwatts (1,000th of a watt) at best. Climbing cellphone towers is perhaps a bit riskier, but you'd still have to plant you carcass atop one of the antennas. Even then, the chances of cell damage is minimal, stories to the contrary notwithstanding.
Nowadays, metal detectors seldom operate above 15 kHz. BFO type detectors often operated at 500 kHz. In either case, the ERP is seldom over a couple of milliwatts. To even suggest there might be some remote chance of cell damage from a metal detector, is both inane and inaccurate. Fact is, you'll receive a whole lot more damaging radiation from the Sun while you are detecting!
As for the Pacific Rim devices often sold to detect EMR.... They're inaccurate at best, and just as apt to pickup your local broadcast station than radiation for a metal detector. Laboratory instruments capable of doing the job correctly, are usually housed within a Faraday shield, and cost thousands or dollars.
For any radiation to be harmful to cell growth, it must be ionizing. At frequencies below about 500 MHz, that's a bit hard to do even at amateur radio power levels (1,500 watts legal maximum). As the frequency increases, it takes less power, but no handheld cellphone would ever be ionizing, even if it operated at 10 GHz! The reason is, their ERP (effective radiate power) is only a few milliwatts (1,000th of a watt) at best. Climbing cellphone towers is perhaps a bit riskier, but you'd still have to plant you carcass atop one of the antennas. Even then, the chances of cell damage is minimal, stories to the contrary notwithstanding.
Nowadays, metal detectors seldom operate above 15 kHz. BFO type detectors often operated at 500 kHz. In either case, the ERP is seldom over a couple of milliwatts. To even suggest there might be some remote chance of cell damage from a metal detector, is both inane and inaccurate. Fact is, you'll receive a whole lot more damaging radiation from the Sun while you are detecting!
As for the Pacific Rim devices often sold to detect EMR.... They're inaccurate at best, and just as apt to pickup your local broadcast station than radiation for a metal detector. Laboratory instruments capable of doing the job correctly, are usually housed within a Faraday shield, and cost thousands or dollars.
pyledriver
Sr. Member
- Dec 5, 2007
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Well you can live in a cave all shriveled up, bored and safe...or you can stop being scared of everything and get out there.
NOBODY GETS OUT ALIVE. We all die one way or another!
NOBODY GETS OUT ALIVE. We all die one way or another!
DizzyDigger
Gold Member
- Dec 9, 2012
- 5,825
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- Nokta FoRs Gold, a Gold Cube, 2 Keene Sluices and Lord only knows how many pans....not to mention a load of other gear my wife still doesn't know about!
- Primary Interest:
- Prospecting
I think the OP was actually referencing it correctly, as he is concerned about
EMF...the field itself, and not so much on the "interference" part.
Most folks just don't realize that we're walking through fields of RF and Microwave
fields all day long. If you carried a spec analyzer and antenna around on your
daily routine, you'll find that you are constantly in one field or another. Signals
you hear on the radio...they are all around you, not just hitting the radio's antenna.
Same goes for cell signals, broadcast TV, etc.
ANYTHING that uses electricity creates a field of some type. Magnetic,
electric, the whole shebang.
Ringfinder: Do you wear one of the probes from Holiday, Amplifier Research or
other maker to insure you aren't walking into an active field up on the tower?
Last edited:
TheRingFinder
Bronze Member
I don't actually go up the towers, we bring in and or build the cell "huts" below the towers and add all the equipment and antenna's to the building. A different crew errects the actual towers and runs the cabling to the antenna's on top. We have been doing this since day one of Cellular technology and no one has been diagnosed with cancer. Hmmmmm
??
I find it interesting that we think some kind of radiation exposure can cause cancer, yet we treat cancer with radiation?
DD - Nope - we don't wear anything, there is no concern about any exposure and we are union and have the highest safety regulations known to man.
?? I find it interesting that we think some kind of radiation exposure can cause cancer, yet we treat cancer with radiation?
DD - Nope - we don't wear anything, there is no concern about any exposure and we are union and have the highest safety regulations known to man.
Last edited:
BC1969
Banned
DizzyDigger
Gold Member
- Dec 9, 2012
- 5,825
- 11,556
- Detector(s) used
- Nokta FoRs Gold, a Gold Cube, 2 Keene Sluices and Lord only knows how many pans....not to mention a load of other gear my wife still doesn't know about!
- Primary Interest:
- Prospecting
Just to lay everyone's fears to rest, I plan to call up a
couple old friends from the EMC community and find out
what specific standards our hobby metal detectors are
tested to.
I'll post up those standards here, and members can then
do their own research to better understand how the testing
is done. The field of EMC is a very small one, and even many
EE's are not all that familiar with what is required for product
compliance.
Might take a few days, but when I get the info I'll write up
a separate thread defining how the testing is done.
couple old friends from the EMC community and find out
what specific standards our hobby metal detectors are
tested to.
I'll post up those standards here, and members can then
do their own research to better understand how the testing
is done. The field of EMC is a very small one, and even many
EE's are not all that familiar with what is required for product
compliance.
Might take a few days, but when I get the info I'll write up
a separate thread defining how the testing is done.
ki4ofh
Tenderfoot
- Dec 28, 2013
- 6
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- All Treasure Hunting
I wonder if there have been any studies done on exposure limits.
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