So... Please tell me Why does a metal detector cost $2499 again?

[Fletch88]

So what detector is it you have your sights on that is in the 600.00 price range that is ACTUALLY made here, that is going to hold MORE than 75% of it's resale value? And get anywhere CLOSE to the depth of a CTX or a Deus or an Etrac or a Nokta or......

(Patiently holding my breath for this one)

I know of a couple in $700 price range

 

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[lockster99]

Charlie, I said I like your digger. Good grief.

 

[Higgy]

Charlie, I said I like your digger.

Me too! Hey Charlie, where'd ya get that? I've never seen one like that before.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Trans-Mississippi Electronics. I don't think he has a website but I can look up the tele # when I get home tonight.

Another benefit in parks is that no one ever confuses it for a "Bowie Knife" as I have had with my Lesche. One woman even called the sheriff on me because I had a "Bowie Knife" where there were children.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

The phone # is 918.832.8064

I've had mine since 2007 and I have no idea if he's still producing the diggers - it was a sideline.

Trans-Mississippi Electronics
P.O. Box 582312
Tulas, OK 74158-2312

 

[kyrock]

I use a Tesoro Cutlass II Umax that's about 15 years old. It works just as good today as it did new out of the box. If My son hadn't purchased me a Bounty Hunter for Christmas, I would probably never get a new one. Now I have two to use and have a blast.

 

[FreeBirdTim]

That digger might be long enough for what you dig...but not me

I've dug colonial relics up to 11" deep with my Fiskars. It has a 6 1/2" blade, so that's more than enough to cut a deep plug. I usually scoop out the last few inches of soil with my hands anyway, so I don't scratch any coin or relic from the 1700's.

I've seen way too many metal detectorists scratch a coin or relic by digging the plug too deep. If my Ace 250 tells me it's 8 inches down, I cut a plug 4 inches down. Better to be safe than sorry...

 

[Trapper John]

So look at an AT pro for instance...
This thing is an extremely popular well loved machine, I might even get one for its waterproof capability, but have you ever held one?
Honestly it feels like it should cost $30.
I mean specifically is there some super expensive intel or AMD processor technology that goes into these things? I mean a chip board is a chip board right?
Even my SGT which certainly pulls its weight and does pretty much everything I expect it to still costs about $1000 today.
The central unit is boxed in cheap plastic. I literally have to treasure and cherish the detector even while Im hanging upside-down in a cave (not really but), I mean I know it has to be light, but have you ever held a $200. HAM radio? It feels like $200 went into it. The switches are rubberized and waterproof. The cases are plastic but they are designed to feel sturdy. There are waterproof faces and LED's
Im not convinced.......

Let me first note that I am a new AT Pro owner. That means that I am likely to be a victim of what is known as cognitive dissonance - which simply means that once we make a decision we are hard pressed to listen to any feedback that hints at us being wrong in our choice. With that in mind, and with all respect toward El Padron, let me respond.

First of all I do not know what a $30 machine ought to feel like. Do you mean light? Because if that is true a detector that costs $600 ought to weigh about 20 times more than the el cheapo model. If you mean flimsy, then things ought to break off easily and when shaken the machine should sound like a mahjong dice cup. I am old, but I am slow too, so light is right for me.

Next, as a Ham radio operator (KG7CFV) I can assure you that all circuit boards (chip boards") are not equal. Quality control is a big issue. Cold solder joints crack and ultimately short or open. Cheap components fail. Considering that a metal detector must function in a series of hostile environments, there is a price to be paid for that sort of internal ruggedness. Throw in waterproof - not water resistant or water repelling - and the demand for quality in assembly goes up some more. Furthermore, use of a $200 handheld transceiver - or HT, as they're called - can satisfy the most basic line-of-sight communications needs. To effectively communicate in, say, emergency conditions one might choose a more sophisticated unit with superior transmit and receive capabilities. And so it goes.

There is no question that one can spend a whole pile of money for very little incremental value in terms of performance. For example, I used to be a fly fisherman. As far as I am concerned a fly reel is little more than a line holder. I have spent $60 and up to $350 on my reels, but scratch my head at guys who need to catch 9 inch fish with $1,000 finely machined and impeccably finished reels. Do they catch more fish than I do? Who knows, and who cares? Can they stop a full-bore run of a steelhead or chinook salmon faster than me? Probably - but I just have to be smart and think a bit more about how I handle a big fish.

In summary, it's not that I disagree with El Padron, it's just that I remember my Dad telling me:

"There will always be somebody who has more than you, in which case I say 'God Bless 'em.' Likewise there will always be those who have less than you and in that case I say 'God help 'em.'"

 

[Montauk3]

You have my vote!

 

[lockster99]

AT Pro is an awesome machine. If you haven't used one before, after getting the hang of it....you are gonna love it! I put the 5 x 8 coil on a friend loaned me, and it really shines in demo lot/trashy yard areas.

By the way....welcome to the site.

 

[el padron]

Let me first note that I am a new AT Pro owner. That means that I am likely to be a victim of what is known as cognitive dissonance - which simply means that once we make a decision we are hard pressed to listen to any feedback that hints at us being wrong in our choice. With that in mind, and with all respect toward El Padron, let me respond.

First of all I do not know what a $30 machine ought to feel like. Do you mean light? Because if that is true a detector that costs $600 ought to weigh about 20 times more than the el cheapo model. If you mean flimsy, then things ought to break off easily and when shaken the machine should sound like a mahjong dice cup. I am old, but I am slow too, so light is right for me.

Next, as a Ham radio operator (KG7CFV) I can assure you that all circuit boards (chip boards") are not equal. Quality control is a big issue. Cold solder joints crack and ultimately short or open. Cheap components fail. Considering that a metal detector must function in a series of hostile environments, there is a price to be paid for that sort of internal ruggedness. Throw in waterproof - not water resistant or water repelling - and the demand for quality in assembly goes up some more. Furthermore, use of a $200 handheld transceiver - or HT, as they're called - can satisfy the most basic line-of-sight communications needs. To effectively communicate in, say, emergency conditions one might choose a more sophisticated unit with superior transmit and receive capabilities. And so it goes.

There is no question that one can spend a whole pile of money for very little incremental value in terms of performance. For example, I used to be a fly fisherman. As far as I am concerned a fly reel is little more than a line holder. I have spent $60 and up to $350 on my reels, but scratch my head at guys who need to catch 9 inch fish with $1,000 finely machined and impeccably finished reels. Do they catch more fish than I do? Who knows, and who cares? Can they stop a full-bore run of a steelhead or chinook salmon faster than me? Probably - but I just have to be smart and think a bit more about how I handle a big fish.

In summary, it's not that I disagree with El Padron, it's just that I remember my Dad telling me:

"There will always be somebody who has more than you, in which case I say 'God Bless 'em.' Likewise there will always be those who have less than you and in that case I say 'God help 'em.'"

"Cognitive dissonance", So that's what it's called.

Out of the 17,000 hits on this thread I've so far counted 8? posters (including myself) who have basically expressed that they also have noticed that the industry standard products that they have purchased are generally very overpriced, under built, under innovated and over marketed, (Find more treasure then in your wildest dreams, but don't ask about the content of your control box, and or don't get it wet )

Just bringing the subject to light has been regarded as hostile.

The point that I have made is inarguable. Its fact.

The industry standards are so low, and the profit margins so huge, that great improvements in product capability, construction, and design could be brought on almost instantly and effortlessly should the lead manufacturer's find themselves in the position of needing to direct such improvements.

Pertaining to the weight of your metal detector, No I don't mean light, I mean cheap. If you shake it, you wont hear anything, not as a testament to its durability, but more so because there is not a lot to it.
What I mean is, it cost less then $20.00 to both innovate and manufacture each one that was later sold for $600.00.
Maybe much less.

Hand held dual bands (HT's, thank you) have increased both in capabilities and durability while at the same time dropping from the ACTUAL dollar amount of $850 circa 1990 to about $145 today.

If you take time value of money into consideration that $145 is actually about $55 1990 dollars.

Fishing reels? The more expensive ones are comprised of meticulously treated alloys. Worth the money,? Probably not, but undeniably, much more additional time, effort, material prep and craftsmanship goes into the higher end more expensive reels.
I am an amateur archeologist, and treasure hunter. I have found many valuable and even a few amazing things.
I am very satisfied and happy with some of my equiptment purchases.
(One detector, and one shovel, LOL)

Others? well, I'm just being honest.

Edit, add:
Lately, It seems some really obvious "technical issues" have been at least acknowledged by a few manufacturers. Not issues that entailed improved technology or better product materials.
The improvements that have been lately set forth are in recognition of the open disrespect and contempt that they traditionally have had for their customers.

 

[lookindown]

"Cognitive dissonance", So that's what it called.

Out of the 17,000 hits on this thread I've so far counted 8? posters (including myself) who have basically expressed that they also have noticed that the industry standard products that they have purchased are generally very overpriced, under built, under innovated and over marketed, (Find more treasure then in your wildest dreams, but don't ask about the content of your control box, and or don't get it wet )

Just bringing the subject to light has been regarded as hostile.

The point that I have made is inarguable. Its fact.

The industry standards are so low, and the profit margins so huge, that great improvements in product capability, construction, and design could be brought on almost instantly and effortlessly should the lead manufacturer's find themselves in the position of needing to direct such improvements.

Pertaining to the weight of your metal detector, No I don't mean light, I mean cheap. If you shake it, you wont hear anything, not as a testament to its durability, but more so because there is not a lot to it.
What I mean is, it cost less then $20.00 to both innovate and manufacture each one that was later sold for $600.00.
Maybe much less.

Hand held dual bands (HT's, thank you) have increased both in capabilities and durability while at the same time dropping from the ACTUAL dollar amount of $850 circa 1990 to about $145 today.

If you take time value of money into consideration that $145 is actually about $55 1990 dollars.

Fishing reels? The more expensive ones are comprised of meticulously treated alloys. Worth the money,? Probably not, but undeniably, much more additional time, effort, material prep and craftsmanship goes into the higher end more expensive reels.

I am very satisfied and happy with some of my purchases,
(One detector, and one shovel, LOL)

Others? well, I'm just being honest.

Edit, add:
Lately, It seems some really obvious "technical issues" have been at least acknowledged by a few manufacturers. Not so much ones that required improved technology or better product materials.
The improvements that have been lately set forth are in recognition to the open disrespect and contempt that they traditionally have had for their customers.

Go to the "Brands" forum under Garrett and look at the thread that has the video showing a tour of the Garrett factory...Im surprised the lower end detectors are sold as cheap as they are ...there is a lot of overhead your not factoring in.

 

[signal]

Go to the "Brands" forum under Garrett and look at the thread that has the video showing a tour of the Garrett factory...Im surprised the lower end detectors are sold as cheap as they are ...there is a lot of overhead your not factoring in.

+1

I do not find many of the detectors poorly made. I own an AT Pro, and I think there is lots of quality that can be found in it. They made incremental changes to just that specific machine over time. For example, the original shafts didn't have tensioners on them. When Garrett improved these shafts, they were pretty accommodating for doing things like swapping/retrofitting previous owners. These machines take a lot of abuse, in crazy environments (heat, salt, dirt, etc). I think for the $550 I paid, I am happy. The machine was sent in once or twice while under warranty. They repaired/replaced everything, even things that were obviously not "manufacturer defect" or anything like that, just did it since they had the machine and stuff looked worn out and would be failing potentially soon. They have a virtually "no questions asked" policy on warranty repairs.

I think if people really think they could make a better detector for less, then they should. Its a relatively small market out there. There is always innovation going on. I mean look at the recent wave of waterproof pinpointers. Look at the cascading retractable shaft of the ATX. Minelab is always pushing innovation with things like GPS, quick replace battery packs, application integration, etc. My point is, things are moving, but it may be a slower pace than some other product markets.

Also, many like myself, don't really feel that the machine is limiting me. My Excal and ATP do exactly what I need them to do. When I leave empty handed, I don't feel it was the machine.

How many stores in your area "sell" metal detectors? Well, I live in South Florida, and I can tell you there is like 1.........that's it, and its pretty damn far away, like well over an hour, for me to get there. No longer do i see hobby shops, pet stores, things like that on corners anymore. The WalMarts have taken over. So my point is, these companies have to cling on to as much as they can to stay in business, have money to reinvest in R&D, etc.

If someone has some real important feedback, I would hope they reach someone on the phone at Garrett, Teknetics, Minelab, etc. And give the some good constructive feedback and follow up with a letter. If you just post on a forum, someone there may read it, but I don't think its impactful.

 

[el padron]

Go to the "Brands" forum under Garrett and look at the thread that has the video showing a tour of the Garrett factory...Im surprised the lower end detectors are sold as cheap as they are ...there is a lot of overhead your not factoring in.

The industry is experiencing an absolute worldwide renaissance. The lower end detectors don't cost much less to produce then the higher end ones, At that level, the ten year old electronics cost almost nothing. Adding seals to an Ace 250 costs almost nothing......
The sales people are mostly on commission. Its not like they are professional treasure hunters.

The consulting psychologists know EXACTLY how to shape a hand shovel so that you will pay $65 for it.

Why is there such a need for dedicated metal detector dealers anyway? The entire dealer network is basically "Herbalife" targeting the amateur treasure recovery community.

 

[Rawhide]

I do not consider any of my first Texas unit cheap. I have hunted along side a AT Pro and T2's. I can tell you their strengths. The ATP will hunt. To call them cheaply made is just brand bashing. Most folks do get defensive when you tell them their new expensive toy is crap. Our toys are very sensitive finely tuned pieces of equipment. While quality control can miss something, most brands will stand behind their detectors and make it right. They want you happy. Now clones and fakes are crap. They don't work as advertised. I have never heard anyone able to return a clone detector either. They all work on the same science. But the difference is the designers hard work they pit in it. Its the hammer tap you are paying for, its knowing where to tap the hammer.

 

[mikeraydj]

The industry is experiencing an absolute worldwide renaissance. The lower end detectors don't cost much less to produce then the higher end ones, At that level, the ten year old electronics cost almost nothing. Adding seals to an Ace 250 costs almost nothing......
The sales people are mostly on commission. Its not like they are professional treasure hunters.

The consulting psychologists know EXACTLY how to shape a hand shovel so that you will pay $65 for it.

Why is there such a need for dedicated metal detector dealers anyway? The entire dealer network is basically "Herbalife" targeting the amateur treasure recovery community.

There some companies that are innovating. Sad to say they are not in the good old USA. Companies like Nokta Makro: Turkey, Minelab: Australia, Deteknix: China, XP Deus: France. The designs here look antiquated in comparison and lack many of the features. We like to bang the made in America drum but the detector companies here are slow to innovate, and begrudgingly do so only when they are forced by the foreign competition to try and keep up. Usually by trying to turn out a product that may keep up, but certainly doesn't surpass them.

Example: Design

Fisher F75 LTD $1,249:

Minelab E Trac $1,549:

XP Deus $949:

Nokta Fores Core $849:

Which one looks the most antiquated and lowest cost build?

 

[lookindown]

The one with the lunch box hanging below the shaft, the TV remote next and a first place tie between the F75 and the E TRAC.

 

[Trapper John]

I see several valid points in your post, especially those related to quality of materials and workmanship. I was pointing out that once a decision is made there is generally a tendency to defend it. If, for example, I buy an inexpensive detector/fly reel/transceiver I will tend to be compelled to justify my purchase by arguing it is as good as more expensive models. Conversely if I spend a lot of money on high end gear with bells and whistles galore and hand-crafted by Zut-Zut monks, I will likely be willing to swear that I can detect gold fillings in a burial plot through a cement vault in the middle of a whole gale.

To me, this is similar to a Ford-is-better-than-Chevy-is better-than-Dodge argument. At best, it is a good way to learn what others experience with a particular product and how they value it. In the worst instance the end objective is lost and folks determine to prove the superiority of their decisions with extreme prejudice. In the final analysis, there comes a point when the cost/performance discussion is exhausted and the real question must be faced: Are we having fun yet?

Please note that I have no ax to grind with El Padron or anyone else, for that matter, with the possible exception of religious extremists who behead and blow up other people. Since I have no evidence that El Padron fits in that category I will assume that any confusion over my intentions is the result of the usual problems with asynchronous communication.

Now I am going out into the fog and rain in an attempt to FIND SOMETHING in the ground.

 

[mikeraydj]

My point was, there are many ways that others see a detector as being. That to be stuck in one mindset doesn't do the hobby justice. That innovation comes from many directions. And lately most of it has come from overseas. The comparisons I made were of detectors of roughly the same price range . Performance and quality of build may vary.

 

[Higgy]

@Mikeraydj - Not to be nitpicky, but you showed the Deus for $949, which is correct, but its an extra $600 for the remote.