Florida State parks, Illegal?

[G.I.B.]

Tuesday afternoon 3:45 on the south east side of Egmont Key located off Tampa Bay Florida.

So there I am exiting waist deep water to dry off a little after a bit of MD’ing in the water. I start on the beach area and as I’m cleaning up trash, you know, the standard beer caps and so on, a park employee pulls up on a 4 wheeler and tells me “Metal Detectors are illegal here and you have to leave.”

I ask the nice man what law or rule I’m breaking. I told him I checked the web site, http://www.floridastateparks.org/egmontkey and found nothing there prohibiting metal detectors. I stopped by the ranger information station by the light house and could not find any employees. I read thru the park brochures and checked all the prohibited items, no booze, no destruction of historic property, no voodoo sacrifices, the usual banned stuff. Nothing about metal detecting tho.

The ranger is getting frustrated at me as I keep asking him where I find the rule about illegal metal detectors. He repeats that he is sure it’s written somewhere, but he doesn’t know where. Again with my questions. What about the water, off the beach. He tells me that the Federal Property line runs 500’ off shore and includes the bottom. OK, where do I look that up? Do you have an 800 number? Is there an information person I can call, can someone tell me where the rule is written?

Again, “For 25 years they have been banned from this park.” “I need to get going and so do you.” OK, I’m not trying to be rude I tell him. I just want to know where I can find the rule so I can see what the limitations are.

So he says, “Metal detectors are banned at all Federal Parks, you need to leave. I’m sure it’s written somewhere.” (Egmont Key is a State Park, he’s not sure where he works I guess.)

Frustrated, I pack up and go away. I’m more than willing to follow the rules, just tell me where they are written, not just word of mouth.

So then, does anyone have any insight to the actual rules concerning this horrible activity? Yes, I know that you’re not supposed to dig or remove any historical artifacts. I’m pretty sure that coins, pull tabs, bottle caps, and jewelry on the beach don’t qualify as historical artifacts.

Thanks,
Larry
s/v AbbyGale
presently anchored at Egmont Key

 

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[Mike Silver -gold]

In New York state you can not hunt in state parks without a special permit. Some of them won't even give you a permit to hunt at all. Forget national parks. The ones I,ve been in realy froun on it. In Gettysburg They have large signs of a silulete of a guy detecting with a slash going across him. like a no smoking sign.

 

[Pulltab Parson]

Ya, but they do allow voodoo sacrifices

I say, show me the law and I'm on my way but don't just give me lip service, granted, I'm not on the west coast of FL hehehe

 

[SC_hunter]

Tuesday afternoon 3:45 on the south east side of Egmont Key located off Tampa Bay Florida.

So there I am exiting waist deep water to dry off a little after a bit of MD’ing in the water. I start on the beach area and as I’m cleaning up trash, you know, the standard beer caps and so on, a park employee pulls up on a 4 wheeler and tells me “Metal Detectors are illegal here and you have to leave.”

I ask the nice man what law or rule I’m breaking. I told him I checked the web site, http://www.floridastateparks.org/egmontkey and found nothing there prohibiting metal detectors. I stopped by the ranger information station by the light house and could not find any employees. I read thru the park brochures and checked all the prohibited items, no booze, no destruction of historic property, no voodoo sacrifices, the usual banned stuff. Nothing about metal detecting tho.

The ranger is getting frustrated at me as I keep asking him where I find the rule about illegal metal detectors. He repeats that he is sure it’s written somewhere, but he doesn’t know where. Again with my questions. What about the water, off the beach. He tells me that the Federal Property line runs 500’ off shore and includes the bottom. OK, where do I look that up? Do you have an 800 number? Is there an information person I can call, can someone tell me where the rule is written?

Again, “For 25 years they have been banned from this park.” “I need to get going and so do you.” OK, I’m not trying to be rude I tell him. I just want to know where I can find the rule so I can see what the limitations are.

So he says, “Metal detectors are banned at all Federal Parks, you need to leave. I’m sure it’s written somewhere.” (Egmont Key is a State Park, he’s not sure where he works I guess.)

Frustrated, I pack up and go away. I’m more than willing to follow the rules, just tell me where they are written, not just word of mouth.

So then, does anyone have any insight to the actual rules concerning this horrible activity? Yes, I know that you’re not supposed to dig or remove any historical artifacts. I’m pretty sure that coins, pull tabs, bottle caps, and jewelry on the beach don’t qualify as historical artifacts.

Thanks,
Larry
s/v AbbyGale
presently anchored at Egmont Key

I do hate incompetent folks, who if they enforce the laws....should at least know them. I'm in law enforcement and if I didn't know the exact code of law, I would sure as heck find out from someone b4 I spurted my mouth off..lol At least I would want something to back me up in case I got into a pppp contest..Call the park ranger in charge of that park...I'm sure he will be a bit more informed.HH and good luck.

 

[CWnut]

I did a google search on "metal detecting in Florida state parks"--here's just one of the results



http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache...+Florida+state+parks&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

 

[G.I.B.]

Thanks for the link. I appreciate the information. I also got a response back from the State of Florida Division of Parks and Recreation. Here is the response, which I'll also post in Beach MD'ing section.

Thanks,

Larry

==================================================================

Regards,

Metal detecting is prohibited in the Florida State Parks except for the coastal parks. At the coastal parks, metal detecting is permitted in the beach areas between the tide line and the toe of the dune. This however, is up to the park manager’s discretion so it is recommended to contact any parks of interest prior to arrival for metal detecting. I have provided an excerpt from our operations manual describing this matter. Egmont Key may be an archaeological site within the zone designated by DHR or the Park Manager. Thank you for your interest.

7)
Use of Metal Detectors


a)
Use of metal detectors, magnetometers or other metal detecting devices is prohibited on all state park lands, including sovereign submerged lands under lease by state parks, except for the following:


(1)
Coastal parks, in a zone between the waterline and toe of the dune, as determined by the Park Manager, except at archaeological sites within the zone designated by DHR or the Park Manager.


(2)
Archaeological research projects authorized by DHR.


(3)
As provided for in Chapter 4, section 28, for the recovery of lost personal items.

b)
Any dug hole associated with the use of a metal detector must be refilled to the contour of pre-dig conditions using the excavated material.

c)
Any excavations within designated archaeological sites require permits from DHR and Bureau of Natural and Cultural Resources. Objects found or recovered under the terms of a permit issued by DHR are property of the State of Florida, with title vested by statute in DHR. Such objects are normally curated by DHR and can be made available by loan to the Division upon request.

Colin M. Dooley
Information Specialist
Florida Division of Recreation & Parks
Department of Environmental Protection
3900 Commonwealth Blvd. MS535
Tallahassee, FL 32399-3000

 

[Farmercal]

Larry,

I was told the same thing when I was detecting a state park. I was told I could be given a ticket. At least the park employee warned me before big brother came four-wheeling in. Unfortunately for me (as well as other Floridian dectetorists) most of the parks around here are state or federal. That's why I don't do much park hunting.

Cal

 

[diggummup]

Thanks for the link. I appreciate the information. I also got a response back from the State of Florida Division of Parks and Recreation. Here is the response, which I'll also post in Beach MD'ing section.

Thanks,

Larry

==================================================================

Regards,

Metal detecting is prohibited in the Florida State Parks except for the coastal parks. At the coastal parks, metal detecting is permitted in the beach areas between the tide line and the toe of the dune. This however, is up to the park manager’s discretion so it is recommended to contact any parks of interest prior to arrival for metal detecting. I have provided an excerpt from our operations manual describing this matter. Egmont Key may be an archaeological site within the zone designated by DHR or the Park Manager. Thank you for your interest.

7)
Use of Metal Detectors


a)
Use of metal detectors, magnetometers or other metal detecting devices is prohibited on all state park lands, including sovereign submerged lands under lease by state parks, except for the following:


(1)
Coastal parks, in a zone between the waterline and toe of the dune, as determined by the Park Manager, except at archaeological sites within the zone designated by DHR or the Park Manager.


(2)
Archaeological research projects authorized by DHR.


(3)
As provided for in Chapter 4, section 28, for the recovery of lost personal items.

b)
Any dug hole associated with the use of a metal detector must be refilled to the contour of pre-dig conditions using the excavated material.

c)
Any excavations within designated archaeological sites require permits from DHR and Bureau of Natural and Cultural Resources. Objects found or recovered under the terms of a permit issued by DHR are property of the State of Florida, with title vested by statute in DHR. Such objects are normally curated by DHR and can be made available by loan to the Division upon request.

Colin M. Dooley
Information Specialist
Florida Division of Recreation & Parks
Department of Environmental Protection
3900 Commonwealth Blvd. MS535
Tallahassee, FL 32399-3000

Key words-It's up to the Park Manager.Kinda makes it a little discriminatory if you ask me.Each park manager is his own rulemaker? Bunch of B.S. IMO! However,I was able to obtain permission to hunt a state park over here on the east coast in Broward county by asking permission first.I did find out however that I knew the Park Managers son so that probably helped too.All in all the laws suck here in Florida and the public beach is getting to be the only place where a person can detect legally besides private properties.Who the hell wants to dig clad all the time? Gets old quick.Good luck and H.H.-diggummup

 

[Mark S.]

If you go to FMDAC.org you can find the regs for hunting in state parks. Look at the top of the right hand column for "State Park Regulations".


Mark Schuessler
FMDAC Alliance Liaison

 

[diggummup]

If you go to FMDAC.org you can find the regs for hunting in state parks. Look at the top of the right hand column for "State Park Regulations".


Mark Schuessler
FMDAC Alliance Liaison

Your original post here in "Legal Issues" is what prompted me to seek permission in the first place. I thank you for that.http://fmdac.org/parks/parks.htm

 

[boone]

Why are the parks so anal about MD'ers? If a hunter is responsible and leaves no sign of his presence, should'nt he be allowed to do archeological exploration on his own dime. The state, sure as hell, wont fund its own exploration. Look what they did to Mel Fisher. Mr. Fisher rewrote history with his find. It cost him some of his children. Then, the state wants all his finds and glory. If the state wants every gold coin and artifact, it should do its own expeditions. I was told, florida get 20% of all finds, do you get to submit a dollar amount on your time and expenses? What is the state afraid of? Joe blow with a detector might find a wreck or treasure and justify myths, legends or lost history. God forbid, we explore and discover without uncle sam in our pockets. We are doing history and the government a favor out of our own pockets. If taxed dollars are an issue, I'll pay, let me spend my own time detecting. I already paid my taxes on my detector and wages which allowed me to drive my taxed vehicle on taxed fuel to the taxed ocean front on my taxed portion to maintain said beach and refuge. Christ al mighty, I'm doomed before I start. I'm on a rant, somebody argue with me before, I sell my metal detector on ebay.

 

[anteater]

Twenty years ago I used to hunt in Ft. Desoto Park south of St. Petersburg, FL. I always stopped by the park office to check in. They always asked me to avoid the picnic areas and stick to beaches and older, undeveloped areas. Of course, the picnic tables are where the people congregate and lose loose change and jewelry, so I usually fudged a little and sort wandered into the picnic areas. The rangers always asked that I stop back by the office to report what I had found which I never did.

 

[annamariaslim]

I'm a native of Anna Maria the next island to the SW, and have been going over to Egmont my whole life.What the ranger said is correct there is no MD anywhere on the island.Since the park became state owned they have really clamped down on everything there.Camping used to be allowed,lighthouse door always open for a trip to the top,exploring the ruins,friendly rangers.In the old days, the kids from the island used to get dropped off on a Friday afternoon and picked up on Sunday, we had the run of the place as there was nobody in charge and not under anyones jurisdiction.Back then I was fortunate to have a MD and found TONS of stuff, some quite spectacular.I have done extensive research on Egmont and can tell you some interesting things: during the indian wars the island was used as a prison and departure point for indians captured during the trail of tears,Billy Bowlegs supposedly died there after eating some ground glass rather than be sent west,Robert E. Lee visited Egmont, and is responsible for the lighthouse being there,Confederate fort, then Union captured and used as a base for blockading forces, gun batteries placed there during Spanish American War,WW I,and II, coastal artillery batteries and observation post for submarines.I used to give a two hour historical tour of the island as captain of a tour boat that went there daily.I really wish I could go back there someday with my MD but don't think that will ever happen again, the rangers are always on the lookout and will have you arrested if you don't follow their instructions.Best advice: walk the beach and look for spent rifle/pistol shells west side(even this probably prohibited), wait for a HARD rain and do a walkabout.Feel free to contact if any questions.Wish it was different, but that's the way it is, fair winds!

 

[godisnum1]

Dang... this has got me all kinds of down while reading this post. I was really hoping to MD at Fort deSoto when I go home for the Summer, as I've grown up there fishing the 1,000 ft. Pier for a good bit of my childhood. I've always stared out over Egmont and the lighthouse for as long as I could remember while fishing, just wondering what might be over there. I didn't realize that the park rangers over there are as bad & mean as the old bitter park ranger women (no offense to anyone) at Fort deSoto who roams around at night, just waiting to be able to tell you to leave for any reason at all. So far I've been ticketed a few years back by her and threatened to be put in federal prison because I took a walk before fishing one night around the Fort with a maglight & lantern, just to show my "then" girlfriend around. And then there was the incident over this past Spring Break a couple weeks ago where the same blasted lady blocked my friend's car in with her huge ranger truck and persisted to yell and grill him because he "went the wrong way" in the parking lot at the 500 ft. Pier (when he was trying to find me) at 3am in the blasted morning!!! I really think that lady is clinically insane.
Sorry, I didn't mean to vent. Anyway, what I wanted to say is that if there's anyone that would like to get together to do some detecting in the St. Pete area over this coming Summer, let me know! I'll be home in 6 weeks and should be getting a detector this next week that Kas and TonyinCT so graciously provided for me since I'm in college and haven't had the money to get one for myself. I've also have experience as a member/volunteer for about 4 years in the Central Gulf Coast Archaeological Society back in high school. So if anyone wants to get together, just message me.

Bran <><