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View Poll Results: % you would be willing to accept to gain treasure hunting access on public land?

Voters
65. You may not vote on this poll
  • 50%

    30 46.15%
  • 40%

    2 3.08%
  • 30%

    13 20.00%
  • 20%

    3 4.62%
  • 10%

    0 0%
  • I wouldn't want this bill

    17 26.15%
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Results 1 to 15 of 40
  1. #1
    treasurejack

    A New Treasure Hunting Proposal In The House?...........POLL

    Let's assume a new Recreational Treasure Hunting proposal is in the house that would open all public lands to recreational treasure hunters. Part of the bill would require an annual permit/fee, say $50. The other part of the bill would allow the treasure hunter a percentage of any found treasure's current market value, but the only thing slowing this bill down is the establishing of the treasure hunter's agreed market percentage. If this were an actual proposed change, what percentage would you be willing to accept in order to see this bill passed?

  2. #2

    Dec 2003
    Western Schuylkill County
    MINELAB EXPLORER SE PRO ....... Garrett Pro Pointer…… Sovereign XS-2 Pro
    65,318
    28737 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Honorable Mentions (1)

    Re: A New Treasure Hunting Proposal In The House?...........POLL

    Where is 99.9999999999999% ?


  3. #3
    us
    Jul 2006
    Corpus Christi, Tx.
    Garrett Ace 250
    1,287
    16 times

    Re: A New Treasure Hunting Proposal In The House?...........POLL

    Even considering that they were PUBLIC LANDS in the 1st Place, I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and agree to a 50/50 split! Something along the lines of the English system of Treasure Trove!

    HH Joe
    Corpus Christi, Tx.
                          Member of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy!

  4. #4

    Feb 2007
    Central Indiana
    376
    2 times

    Re: A New Treasure Hunting Proposal In The House?...........POLL

    Ditto Buscadero
    Diggit.....................Diggit................. ....Diggit

  5. #5
    treasurejack

    Re: A New Treasure Hunting Proposal In The House?...........POLL

    Quote Originally Posted by jeff of pa
    Where is 99.9999999999999% ?

    lol....it's Uncle Sam.....I twisted his arm just so he'd let me post the 20,30,40,50%!

    (This should be an interesting poll?)

  6. #6
    treasurejack

    Re: A New Treasure Hunting Proposal In The House?...........POLL

    Quote Originally Posted by buscadero
    Even considering that they were PUBLIC LANDS in the 1st Place, I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and agree to a 50/50 split! Something along the lines of the English system of Treasure Trove!

    HH Joe
    That's exactly what prompted me to do this poll.

  7. #7
    ghosthunter

    Re: A New Treasure Hunting Proposal In The House?...........POLL

    For every bill the (sic) Gov. would introduce, there would be 50 more to place the original bill in their favor. It's a loose, loose situation. You would do all the work,they would take everything you found..It's not worth it.............

  8. #8

    Dec 2003
    Western Schuylkill County
    MINELAB EXPLORER SE PRO ....... Garrett Pro Pointer…… Sovereign XS-2 Pro
    65,318
    28737 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Honorable Mentions (1)

    Re: A New Treasure Hunting Proposal In The House?...........POLL

    I figure if I find a Chest with a Billion in it,
    Till they took the Taxes out,
    I'd consider letting them have the Chest yet.




    All joking aside.
    You know me, I just paid $100.00 for an All access Permit.
    IF I would have had to share a % on top of that,
    I probably would have
    agreed to it. But it would have been a Small %.

    And on what your asking, Taxes would be a Big Consideration on the Percentage, I'd agree to.

  9. #9
    treasurejack

    Re: A New Treasure Hunting Proposal In The House?...........POLL

    Quote Originally Posted by jeff of pa
    I figure if I find a Chest with a Billion in it,
    Till they took the Taxes out,
    I'd consider letting them have the Chest yet.




    All joking aside.
    You know me, I just paid $100.00 for an All access Permit.
    IF I would have had to share a % on top of that,
    I probably would have
    agreed to it. But it would have been a Small %.

    And on what your asking, Taxes would be a Big Consideration on the Percentage, I'd agree to.
    Jeff,

    Then consider something like this perhaps?
    Let's say we are given a tax option at the end of each year, for a $1000 tax donation to say, "The New Federal Lands Fund", you will retain the right to treasure hunt on all federally governed lands, annual permit and regs arriving in the mail. Now if 100,000 people opt to do this each year (I would) that's 10 million tax dollars in additional resources for our public lands, all of it up front. Now toss in the percentages we are polling here and together they could generate a great deal of revenue towards the preserving of our public lands. With such a system in place, each year the government has a surplus of Federal Land tax dollars up front that it can then use to "buy any archaeologically significant" discovery that it deems to be of public or historical value. At 20%, a 1 million dollar discovery would cost the fund $200'000.00, which if they purchased it, would be "tax free" to you because you opted to enter the program during the prior tax season. In the long run, the archies get what they want (Funding & discoveries), Uncle Sam gets what he wants (Free tax dollars), and the treasure hunter gets what he wants (legal access and the potential of legal profit.) I think something like this could work. What do you think?

  10. #10
    TreasureTales

    Re: A New Treasure Hunting Proposal In The House?...........POLL

    I'm not paying for a permit because that is just another tax. I'm not paying any taxes because I did the work. I'd be willing to declare what I find on PUBLIC LAND only if I could sell it to a buyer at fair market value and then be taxed appropriately on my additional "income."

    I am sick to death of permits, taxes, and government control of the public lands. Those are our lands and as long as we treat them with some semblence of respect we should have access to them. Permits are a way of asking for the government's permission to do something. While in fact the government should be asking for our permission to do something.

    Boys and girls, things are bass ackwards. Don't fall for a permit system and a tax system.

    Treasurejack I understand what you're saying, I just think we've too long been programmed to ask permission instead of to give it.

  11. #11
    treasurejack

    Re: A New Treasure Hunting Proposal In The House?...........POLL

    Quote Originally Posted by TreasureTales
    I'm not paying for a permit because that is just another tax. I'm not paying any taxes because I did the work. I'd be willing to declare what I find on PUBLIC LAND only if I could sell it to a buyer at fair market value and then be taxed appropriately on my additional "income."

    I am sick to death of permits, taxes, and government control of the public lands. Those are our lands and as long as we treat them with some semblence of respect we should have access to them. Permits are a way of asking for the government's permission to do something. While in fact the government should be asking for our permission to do something.

    Boys and girls, things are bass ackwards. Don't fall for a permit system and a tax system.

    Treasurejack I understand what you're saying, I just think we've too long been programmed to ask permission instead of to give it.
    TT, I can't argue your point, but we all know the government isn't going give up anything, so why not rethink things a bit and try to forge a solution that might allow us to get some of what we've lost back? At present the general government mindset is that anything on public lands should belong to everyone because everyone pays taxes, even the guy who doesn't treasure hunt, and sadly there are more of them then there is of us. This government mindset presents a very strong argument against our hobby and our gaining access to these lands. The hobbies of hunting and fishing generate a lot of income to the various state and federal land management agencies, so they are likewise accommodated, but treasure hunting? So why not feed the system what it wants in order to gain more, "financial notice?" Permits generate dollars and that system is never going away, like it or not.

  12. #12

    Dec 2003
    Western Schuylkill County
    MINELAB EXPLORER SE PRO ....... Garrett Pro Pointer…… Sovereign XS-2 Pro
    65,318
    28737 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Honorable Mentions (1)

    Re: A New Treasure Hunting Proposal In The House?...........POLL

    IF it were all Federal land including
    All Protected Sites Yes.

    But, it would have to be through the Federal Government
    No Archeological input at all.
    IF they wish to Buy ; or a Museum wishes to buy at fair
    market Value Fine.
    but to do the work, after Paying to do the work,
    I wouldn't want someone who is paid to sit back & watch
    decide, the Particular piece of land I decided to work,
    is producing more then I deserve & shut me down.

    I hope what I said isn't tooooooooo Confusing :P

    Let's just say I trust the Federal Government
    fruther then I would trust someone straight out of
    College who has been taught that they own everything
    that is cool & underground.

  13. #13
    TreasureTales

    Re: A New Treasure Hunting Proposal In The House?...........POLL

    TJ, I disagree with your statement "....the general government mindset is that anything on public lands should belong to everyone because everyone pays taxes....."

    1) Not everyone pays taxes, yet everyone is allowed on public lands with few exceptions, and providing the current laws are obeyed. Even foreigners are permitted on our public lands, and they never pay a dime in US taxes.

    2) Not all things are prevented from being removed for the good of all, as you imply. Rocks, minerals, fossils, game & fish, and trash can currently be removed from many federally administered public lands without paying a federal fee and often without need of a federal permit. (Hunting and fishing permits/licenses are sold by the states.) Why are those things legally removed and not treasure?

    I personally know two people who run small rock shops. One lives in California and one is in Oregon. Those people collect rocks, minerals, fossils from OUR lands and sell them for a profit in their shops. No permits and no fees. I'm not advocating THEY should have to buy permits, I am advocating that since they can do it, why can't we?

    If I were to have a mechanized piece of heavy equipment come into a national forest and move tons of earth with it in order to look for treasure, I can see where a set of restrictions and a permitting system would be necessary. But for the average treasure hunter or metal detectorist or artifact collector or bottle digger, I don't see why our hobby is any different from the rockhounds - and I am a rockhound, too. In fact, the rock shop owners that I mentioned are not your average rockhound. They collect hundreds of pounds of material and sell it for profits - with no permits or fees necessary. They pay taxes on the profits they make on the sales of the material. I'm advocating equal treatment under the law. I'm saying we are being discriminated against and it has little to do with anything except the elitist attitude of the professional archaeologists who are trying to preserve their own incomes. We are threatening their jobs - and many of them don't care about the material they dig up. They care about the books they can write and the new discovery they can name after themselves. We are being brainwashed into thinking we need them. BULL. They need us.

    Do you realize that some of the best discoveries made in the field sciences were made by those who were not the scientists themselves? Mary Leakey found more old skull parts than her scientist husband did in Africa. There are many ametuer rockhounds who have minerals named after them because they first discovered them. Why do we allow ourselves to be treated as stepchildren? Only through standing our ground as equal citizens will be make progress. Submission makes us less than equals. No thanks. I'll not settle for half a loaf.

    3) Equal justice under the law should refer to us treasure hunters as much as backpackers and rockclimbers. If rockclimbers can pound their pitons into the face of Half Dome in Yosemite in the name of "sport," why can't I put a shovel into the desert soil and retrieve a cache of old bottles? It is the same thing. In fact, my shovel is less harmful to the environment. The government at all levels has more historical material now in its possession than can be thoroughly "studied" in a thousand years. They are not telling us the truth when they outlaw our activities. Think about that.

    My quarrel here is not with any individual. I'm on your side because we are on the same side. My quarrel is in the thinking that says we need to pay more or give up more or kiss more butts because of our hobby. Never! We need fewer hoops to jump through, not more. It was individual discoveries that made America rich. To dampen that discovery mentality is to dampen our own future.

  14. #14
    treasurejack

    Re: A New Treasure Hunting Proposal In The House?...........POLL

    Quote Originally Posted by jeff of pa
    IF it were all Federal land including
    All Protected Sites Yes.

    But, it would have to be through the Federal Government
    No Archeological input at all.
    IF they wish to Buy ; or a Museum wishes to buy at fair
    market Value Fine.
    but to do the work, after Paying to do the work,
    I wouldn't want someone who is paid to sit back & watch
    decide, the Particular piece of land I decided to work,
    is producing more then I deserve & shut me down.

    I hope what I said isn't tooooooooo Confusing :P
    Jeff,
    For sure there would be regs to follow, but this is mainly a "recreational bill" which takes into account that "discoveries of significance" are likely to be found, and that the finder is entitled to a portion of that discovery's market value. "No bulldozers, backhoes, or dynamite, etc." If you made the discovery, you get a portion of the market value on "everything" that may come from the site, even if the archies shut you down and take it over. Would something like this work for you?

  15. #15

    Dec 2003
    Western Schuylkill County
    MINELAB EXPLORER SE PRO ....... Garrett Pro Pointer…… Sovereign XS-2 Pro
    65,318
    28737 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Honorable Mentions (1)

    Re: A New Treasure Hunting Proposal In The House?...........POLL

    Quote Originally Posted by treasurejack
    Quote Originally Posted by jeff of pa
    IF it were all Federal land including
    All Protected Sites Yes.

    But, it would have to be through the Federal Government
    No Archeological input at all.
    IF they wish to Buy ; or a Museum wishes to buy at fair
    market Value Fine.
    but to do the work, after Paying to do the work,
    I wouldn't want someone who is paid to sit back & watch
    decide, the Particular piece of land I decided to work,
    is producing more then I deserve & shut me down.

    I hope what I said isn't tooooooooo Confusing :P
    Jeff,
    If you made the discovery, you get a portion of the market value on "everything" that may come from the site, even if the archies shut you down and take it over. Would something like this work for you?
    That would definately be a different story.

    But I doubt the archies would Ever go for that.
    It would be money Out their Pockets & Artifacts out of their Basements.
    if they were regulated that closely.

 

 
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