Confronted at a park.

jmaryt

Sr. Member
Feb 6, 2007
280
189
yep, I went to the city hall and was told very clearly NO! I just wanted to be legal like most of us and didn't want to cause any problems but they said that years before someone had already caused enough problems... oh well. good luck

this is what happens when ya try to do the right thing!
at least you have a clear conscience,HOWEVER after 33 years in this
fascinating hobby,I DIG first,then MAKE them throw me out,and the reasoning
is that IF you "do the right thing"and ask,the answer will almost certainly be NO!
why?..because you HAVE to dig,and they know this,SOOOO,people "panic" and f**k
you!..screw 'em! go enjoy yourself,if they "pitch" ya,find another park,and do it all over again!
MOST people will leave ya alone,believe it ,or not!

(h.h.!)
j.t.
 

foiler

Sr. Member
Mar 17, 2013
395
389
Kansas
Detector(s) used
Fisher, Wilson-Neuman, Whites, Minelab, Tesoro and others I've long since forgotten
Primary Interest:
Metal Detecting
It's a different world today from when I started in the mid '60's. Then, I went hunting for lost treasures and dug them up. I don't do that anymore, not in this world. Today I 'locate lost items' and I 'retrieve' them. Change your words, change their minds.
 

lookindown

Gold Member
Mar 11, 2010
7,089
4,936
Florida
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1
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ACE 250,AT PRO, CZ21...RTG pro scoop...Stealth 720
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Yuo can try to do the distinction between "dig" and "probe" (or "pop" or "slit", or whatever you want to call it), if you want. But let's be perfectly honest folks: That's a semantics game. What I mean is: Anyone seeing you probe, fish your fingers down there, and get shallow targets that way, can STILL say that constitutes digging. And odds are, they're not close enough to see you (whether or not dirt broke the surface, etc...) anyhow. They're merely seeing you from afar , and .... let's face it .... detecting has that connotation, whether you dug, or probed, or were simply only walking/swinging, and hadn't even dug yet !

Bottom line is: ALL cities have something like that for their park's codes/rules. Even if not using the evil word "dig", yet still in some form or fashion. Like "alter" or "deface", etc... Right? So if those things all automatically preclude you/me from detecting (and retrieving) in parks, then you might as well give it up now, and stop detecting.

The verbage like "alter" and "deface" is easy though. Because all such words inherently imply the END result, right? So if you leave no trace, then technically you have not alterED or defacED anything ! Yes someone can debate the semantics of that with you if they want. Ok then AVOID that individual and go at lower traffic times! Like if they're park workers, then I'm sure they leave at 5pm, etc.. right? You say yourself mikeraydj that this was one of your "favorite parks", right? Then is that to assume that you've detected there many times before, and never had a problem ? If so, then it appears to me that it's this one lone individual.

Yes the "dig" word is more problematic. I would still argue "dig" versus "dug" though, since the end result is what's at stake. Yes this won't win a debate of semantics. But neither will the alter verses altered! And neither will probe/pop versus dig!

Thus I hate to say it, but .... sometimes there are just lone individuals in this world that you and I need to avoid. Why swat hornet's nests? You can certainly try to go to city hall and get this "clarified" and "overturned", etc.... But sometimes the only thing THAT does, is simply make it an up and front "pressing issue" for a bunch of other people who .... quite frankly .... never cared.

The issue seems to be pretty much isolated to turf, right? (versus sandboxes, bar dirt, beaches, scrub-terrain, etc...). So it's gotten to where I do most all my turf hunting at very "off" times. So peaceful. So serene.
There is a difference between probing and digging. Why do you think they have signs saying detecting allowed but no digging? If your not using a digging tool, then you are ok. A screw driver is not considered a digging tool, a hand shovel or trowel is.
 

Tom_in_CA

Gold Member
Mar 23, 2007
13,837
10,360
Salinas, CA
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2
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Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
There is a difference between probing and digging. Why do you think they have signs saying detecting allowed but no digging? If your not using a digging tool, then you are ok. A screw driver is not considered a digging tool, a hand shovel or trowel is.

lookindown, I'm not saying I disagree with you. I DO agree with you. And trust me: I can make a PRETTY DEEP hole with nothing but a screwdriver, if I put my mind to it. And if the definition of "dig" becomes whether or not dirt-got-displaced to the surface (rather than just a widened slit/slot in the earth), I'm inclined not to give up if I hear the sweet sound of silver down below the reach of my fingertips!

But cutting to the chase here, and deeper-efforts with the probe aside for the moment: What I'm saying is, that if you were to get accosted by a busy-body cop or gardener: what do you think would happen if you or I offered up our rationale of "probe" versus "dig" ? Perhaps some would scratch their head and leave you. But let's say they persisted, and rejected this semantics. And let's say you go down to get this booting overturned (ie.: seek clarification or whatever). Or let's say it resulted in a ticket that you decided to fight (on the grounds of your definitions/interpretations). All I'm saying is that I can well imagine some higher-up, when forced to deal with this p*ssing match of definitions, is likely to deny this play-on-words, and say that ... in fact .... it's "digging", even if you so much as wriggle a slit in the ground, and fish your fingers into it. Because in his mind's eyes, it just opens the pandora's box (camel's nose in the tent) type petty discussions. And the next yahoo with a metal detector might not be so careful, etc..

Not saying that I don't agree with you. Heck, I'm as brazen as they come. I'm just saying that others, given the connotations, could take exception to that. So .... best tactic is, to avoid such persons as might be inclined to dispute the wordings, to begin with. What they don't see doesn't hurt them, eh? And as long as you and I leave no mess or scar or trace, then we know full-well we've fulfilled the intent of said rules/laws.
 

FLauthor

Hero Member
Aug 22, 2004
770
203
Minneola, FL
Detector(s) used
Excalibur 800; Fisher F5; White Beachmaster VLF
Primary Interest:
Beach & Shallow Water Hunting
[SIZE=+1]Learn to use a Brass probe and a flat bladed screwdriver. I have hunted yards where you could not see where I had hunted. Porcelain ball handle brass shaft $10.95, Brass knob handle with brass shaft $9.95, Wood Handle with steel shaft has soft brass ball tip $9.95 from Treasure hunter's Diggers, probes, cleaners, tumblers, gold magnets! are the best type.[SIZE=+1] [/SIZE]With Brass less chance of scratching a good coin.[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]I carry a Gator trowel and a handkerchief when I have a sandy spot with no grass. Place dirt on [SIZE=+1]handkerchief, retrieve the find and dump the dirt back in and compact.[/SIZE] [/SIZE]If Armadillos are in the area point that out to grounds keeper so you don't get blamed.
 

lookindown

Gold Member
Mar 11, 2010
7,089
4,936
Florida
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1
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ACE 250,AT PRO, CZ21...RTG pro scoop...Stealth 720
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lookindown, I'm not saying I disagree with you. I DO agree with you. And trust me: I can make a PRETTY DEEP hole with nothing but a screwdriver, if I put my mind to it. And if the definition of "dig" becomes whether or not dirt-got-displaced to the surface (rather than just a widened slit/slot in the earth), I'm inclined not to give up if I hear the sweet sound of silver down below the reach of my fingertips!

But cutting to the chase here, and deeper-efforts with the probe aside for the moment: What I'm saying is, that if you were to get accosted by a busy-body cop or gardener: what do you think would happen if you or I offered up our rationale of "probe" versus "dig" ? Perhaps some would scratch their head and leave you. But let's say they persisted, and rejected this semantics. And let's say you go down to get this booting overturned (ie.: seek clarification or whatever). Or let's say it resulted in a ticket that you decided to fight (on the grounds of your definitions/interpretations). All I'm saying is that I can well imagine some higher-up, when forced to deal with this p*ssing match of definitions, is likely to deny this play-on-words, and say that ... in fact .... it's "digging", even if you so much as wriggle a slit in the ground, and fish your fingers into it. Because in his mind's eyes, it just opens the pandora's box (camel's nose in the tent) type petty discussions. And the next yahoo with a metal detector might not be so careful, etc..

Not saying that I don't agree with you. Heck, I'm as brazen as they come. I'm just saying that others, given the connotations, could take exception to that. So .... best tactic is, to avoid such persons as might be inclined to dispute the wordings, to begin with. What they don't see doesn't hurt them, eh? And as long as you and I leave no mess or scar or trace, then we know full-well we've fulfilled the intent of said rules/laws.
I hear what your saying Tom. I was just trying to let people know that they can still hunt those places that have signs saying detecting allowed but no digging. If your looking for old coins, probing doesn't do you much good...you pretty much have to look for recent shallow drops. Public places to metal detect are getting fewer everyday and its not going to get better...were such a small group that they don't care to wipe us out.
 

Tom_in_CA

Gold Member
Mar 23, 2007
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Salinas, CA
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Don't that make us look like lepers or second clas citizens though?

If that's how you or someone wants to define us, then fine then: I'm a leper, 2nd class citizen, pot-hunter, opportunist, sneaker, etc.... Go ahead and call it anything you want :) But as long as I like metal detecting, and so long as it has ... uh .... "connotations" that some people get bothered by, then fine: just like nose-picking, I'll be discreet enough in my timing such that they're not forced to watch me :)
 

Tom_in_CA

Gold Member
Mar 23, 2007
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I hear what your saying Tom. I was just trying to let people know that they can still hunt those places that have signs saying detecting allowed but no digging.....

Yes, I agree. And there was one fellow who posted awhile back, that he'd gotten word (either by having asked "can I?" or maybe it was an actual rule...) to the song & dance of "you can detect, yet not dig". But he reasoned ... just like you .... that minor ruffling of the grass, simple "probing", etc... wasn't included in that. As time went on, and an entire year went by, he noticed that NEVER did anyone ever stop, scrutinize his methods, or even notice or talk to him. So ... eventually ... he got to where he chased a few deeper ones. And again, after much time and many hunts, same results. Not an issue and no one cared. So he got a little more aggressive and .... took the temptation to investigate some deeper ones. As the years went by, no one ever said "boo" to him. And ... eventually, I guess he thought "what the heck", eh ?
 

ATPRoDon

Full Member
Nov 26, 2007
132
88
Griffin, GA
Detector(s) used
Whites Surf PI, Whites V3i, Minelab Equinox 800
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
You have to be careful, many cities have ordinances that don't say you can't metal detect but say you can't disturb the ground...:(
 

Tom_in_CA

Gold Member
Mar 23, 2007
13,837
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Salinas, CA
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You have to be careful, many cities have ordinances that don't say you can't metal detect but say you can't disturb the ground...:(

Ok, granted. However, what is implicit in a rule like that? The END RESULT. So if you leave the ground with no trace or damage, then presto, you haven't disturbED anything. Same for laws that forbid altering, defacing, destruction, vandalism, etc.....: If you've left no damage or marks, then technically you haven't alterED or defacED anything.

Might someone disagree with those semantics ? SURE ! Then go at low traffic times when that particular busy-body isn't present. Problem solved.

If these type terms/words still spook someone, then they've chosen the wrong hobby. Or they're going to have to stick to private land. Because I gaurantee you: terms/words such as those, exist on every single speck of land, in some form or fashion.
 

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