Ethics Between Friends Dillema

[McKinney_5900]

Let's say you have a fairly new friend who has developed into a fairly good personal friend over time. Your new friend hadn't found silver with you, but did in another venue while hunting with another mutual friend...a far more silver rich environment than our usual hunting areas. The kicker is that hunting these better areas requires some really sketchy bending of the metaldetecting rules of ethics. When I say bending, I'm talking about being told to leave on several occassion, and/or feeling restless enough that the group electively leaves when any kind of approach is made from neighbors, etc.

Here's my personal dilemma. I've been on enough of these hunts and experienced these emotions of letting myself break some ethics rules myself cuz finding silvers is really addictive. I decided to make my statement to my newest friend that I'm not hunting as a threesome because I see moral and likely illegal issues in these hunts.

I've observed many tectors over time who have gotten the taste of silver just once and then they started their moral breakdown of what's ethically right as a metal detectorist to hunt.



Question: "Should I press the lack of ethics with my newer friend, and also risk isolating myself as a friend to both my new friend and my old friend too, or just fade out with excuses?"

I've made hints about the lowering of ethics at times. The silver fever seems to me to be like I'd imagine a crack addict though...gotta get some more no matter the danger.

So, do I just leave this trio quietly with little preaching, or is there a responsibility to try and correct these bad trends? Thanks

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Cry Of The Eagle: History And Legends Of The Cherokee Indians And Their Buried Treasure - Grab it through Amazon!

[longcut]

Been there , done that McKinney........... couple guys I use to hunt with practiced the idea that if they did not know the landowner, just go hunt ... If the landowner showed up then ask permission .............. their motto was " they aren't gonna kill u and eat u " ......... after 3 or 4 trips with them , I had to turn them loose ................. I like having permission, makes the hunt a lot more enjoyable...............

 

[Terry Soloman]

...Question: "Should I press the lack of ethics with my newer friend, and also risk isolating myself as a friend to both my new friend and my old friend too, or just fade out with excuses?"...

No, don't "press" your opinion on what other people's ethics should be. Just stick to your own and don't make excuses or apologize for them.

 

[Mason Jarr]

If you think you might get somewhere with them, I'd be honest and just tell them that you don't think it's right to hunt those areas, you're not going to do it anymore and you don't think they should either. On the other hand, if you think you're approach would just end up ruining the friendship then I'd just ease out gracefully and whenever they mention hunting there, I'd have a reason why I couldn't. If you really like the people I'd hunt with them, just not at the places you think it's morally wrong.

 

[OldJerseyGirl]

I have a couple of those kind of friends. They will 'jUST GO" or hunt at night. I say go for it, but not for me. I have to have permission to enjoy the hunt. They both know this and are O.K. with it. If not, then so be it. I am old, but in my day you just did not do that. I would gladly give permission for anyone to hunt my property, BUT would not want to look out and see some stranger digging on my property. And I bet they would not like anyone in their Yard either.

 

[Mackaydon]

Stand your ground with your own ethics. Your true friends will respect your opinion and rally around you even though they may have a different opinion. The others--let them go--they aren't really your friends.
Don.....

 

[RustyGold]

Most likely confronting them on the issue will backfire on you! It always has on me.
You know who you are and I wouldn't change my ethics for anyone!
But if you try to school them or others it has the uncanny effect of making people defensive!
Depending on you delivery.
Don't say a word and let your actions speak for themselves!

 

[doc-d]

YOU are right…..NEVER compromise, NEVER…….it is truly a slippery slope..
And at least for me, it is much more relaxing knowing there are no problems……..
As for speaking, not sure if I would, unless I knew specifics and they were doing something clearly wrong….
Vaya con Dios mi amigo

 

[CincinnatiKid]

Long term friends always have disputes. If each can respect the others decisions, not necessarily agree with but respect, long friendships endure.
I once lost a lifelong friendship over something so petty I won't mention it.
Also, if I feel uncomfortable in any endeavor, I politely excuse myself. Right is right, wrong is wrong and intuition is a gift.
Good luck...
Peace

 

[Jeremy S]

Trespassers are what ruin this hobby for everyone. Anything you found while trespassing I would consider stolen property because you did not have permission to go there and find it. If I caught a trespasser hunting on my property without permission I'd personally call the cops and press charges. Around here is is mostly people driving on your land to deer hunt and either leaving a trail of empty beer cans or starting field fires from their cigarette butts. My dad recently had a 20 acre forest fire from such a trespasser flipping his cig into the dry leaves.

I wouldn't preach. Let them figure out the hard way. I find plenty of silver on the private properties that I have permission to hunt

 

[Argentium]

You absolutely need to take the high ground ,and in no way go on hunts to properties where there is any concern ethically/legally .
I'm pretty sure if these are friends of yours - you can let them know your position without jeopardizing your friendships -
I fairly recently made a stupid decision in a similar situation - and it turned out badly - I was completely in the wrong too ,
I trespassed , the property owner had me "dead to rights " He could have prosecuted me ! ( I guess I got greedy based
on how promising the property looked .)

 

[Iron Patch]

Really... finding a silver coin that would not even cover the gas it took to get you there makes you question if going on property you repeatedly get booted from is a good idea? If it was $500 coins, ok I could see the greed could maybe push a person over the edge... but come on. I'll always be amazed how greed is such a factor in this hobby and it's over so little. And if it's not greed, it's the addiction, and that is the case you need to give your head just as hard of a shake.

 

[NWMP]

And if it's not greed, it's the addiction, and that is the case you need to give your head just as hard of a shake.

I admit to going through a peak heated obsession period in regard to fur trade finds. Maybe only someone that has gone through it, or watched it, can understand. Being new in the hobby and finding what you deem to be incredible relics for your area, can be an obsessive mind swirling intoxication for some of us. I believe that it is a good thing that seasoned members warn the new about such traps. It happens.

 

[Jeremy S]

I understand where you are coming from. I guess I'm in the minority. I own land, If I ran into someone metal detecting,hunting arrow heads,hiking or fishing I'd stop and join them! lol I'd much rather run into that than the 4 wheelers rutting everything,shot up trees, trash from partying,beer cans,potato chip bags, trails blazed through everywhere,stuff nailed and screwed into trees for deer stands, even found about a half acre land cleared and planted with grass for the deer!!!!!. Even had a deer hunter put up a gate,lock, and signs up to block out other deer hunters!!!! I never gave one person permission to hunt! I didn't really care if they hunted but they were the worst at destroying and taking over!!! After the mess I get! I'd be happy to see a metal detector or arrowhead hunter! Your right, I'd rather them ask permission. The younger kids play in there, I won't give them permission, but I don't care as long as they aren't destroying or trashing everything! lol

I personally have no problem letting someone hunt/fish/detect/whatever on my property as long as they ask for permission.

Typically the guys who litter and destroy your property are the ones who trespass. The guy who caused the forest fire actually called the fire department when he realized what he had done, and then hauled @ss out of there before anyone showed up. The fire department had to bring in bulldozers to clear a path so that they could get the fire under control. In the end my dad had to pay for what his insurance did not cover and he took a bad loss when they sold lumber because many of the trees were fire damaged. I doubt my dad will let anyone else hunt out there after that mess! So that one guy ruined it for everyone else. Just like those guys who trespass to metal detect. When they get ran off the owner will probably never give permission to anyone else again.

When I hunt on private property I always make sure to leave it in better shape than when I arrived. Its the least I can do for the owner for giving me permission to hunt it. Too bad many others don't follow the same path.

 

[ARC]

As a group of people who share the same desires of "scoring" we cannot let "greed" or "the fever" take hold. The best way to SCREW up what little MD rights we have is to allow people who have no ethics to continue STEALING. this is wrong period. IF YOU are not part of a solution you are part of the problem !!!.
GET IT ?
If someone has asked you to leave THEIR property and you refuse... you are trespassing and if you remove items from privately owned property you are STEALING.
Which means you are nothing more than a thief.
And for SILVER? lol what a joke.... I could see maybe for a stash of gold bars....lol...
Always some idiot bad apples who screw it up for everyone else... WHY DO YOU THINK THEY HAVE PASSED THE MD LAWS ? because of greedy idiots.
My suggestion to you is to OPEN YOUR EYES... take a good look at your so called "FRIENDS"... if they will say "screw it" to the land owner for their greed.. you might find yourself being screwed by these so called "friends" when the day comes when greed is in play between you and them.
You think these guys will stop this "M.O." because you are a "friend"..
State your opinion and that you do not feel right about it... if they do not agree and take the right road.... I suggest you take this as an "insight" into the psych of your friends and take the first fork in that road.
Wheew that was ehhhhhhh blah..... heh
Get real folks... fight for your right to MD but do it intelligently. sheesh.... breaking the law (even if you agree with it or not) is still BREAKING THE LAW and every time someone gets busted doing this it sends a ripple of reinforcement in the areas us MDrs are already "treading light" on.
Your stupidity effects me and fellow MDrs... And I do not appreciate it.

 

[ARC]

oh.. I forgot... I wanna add one more thing... I do not mean to come off as an ass about it... but I do get "worked up" about this type of thing... because I had to grow the balls and develop my "sales pitch" to approach private property owners... I do not like doing it ... but I love MDing... and because of that... it is worth the "red tape" of doing it the right way.
You will be satisfied with your finds... every time you go the right way... with piece of mind.

 

[mikeraydj]

This is the reason that metal detectorists get a bad name. Why permissions are hard to get. And will be why the only place I will be able to detect will be my yard.
I agree that telling your friends that what they are doing is unethical and may be illegal is the right thing to do. After that, if they want to continue then they can do so on their own. Like the old cowboy song, "You've got to stand for something or you will fall for anything."

 

[Tom_in_CA]

McKinney -5900: You are asking this question on a public "family friendly" forum. So what are you expecting the consensus to be? I mean, go-figure: there are folks here who think you "need permission" to hunt a public park sandbox for pete's sake. So it's sort of like asking on a public forum : "Hi, is it ok if I go 56 in a 55 mph zone?". Well OF COURSE the "proper" answer is going to have to be "Absolutely not. It's against the law", and " you are bringing a bad light on all motorists", and so forth .

So not likely you're going to get anyone here to admitting that they don't get every last archaeologist and gardener to "sign off on them and roll out red-carpets". Except Nitric, who admitted in reply #5 to (gasp) hitting state-park campgrounds because a) no one cared, even-to-the-point of a wink wink from a ranger no less! and b) no one was around. Ok then, why isn't anyone castigating and condemning him ? Heck, he even came on a public forum an admitted it! (shame on you Nitric).

Ok, and for the record: 1) I do not go 56 in 55 mph zones, and 2) I do not spit on the sidewalks in New York. (in case anyone was wondering). Now the REST of you may be lawless miscreants, but no, not me.

 

[Jeremy S]

McKinney -5900: You are asking this question on a public "family friendly" forum. So what are you expecting the consensus to be? I mean, go-figure: there are folks here who think you "need permission" to hunt a public park sandbox for pete's sake. So it's sort of like asking on a public forum : "Hi, is it ok if I go 56 in a 55 mph zone?". Well OF COURSE the "proper" answer is going to have to be "Absolutely not. It's against the law", and " you are bringing a bad light on all motorists", and so forth .

So not likely you're going to get anyone here to admitting that they don't get every last archaeologist and gardener to "sign off on them and roll out red-carpets". Except Nitric, who admitted in reply #5 to (gasp) hitting state-park campgrounds because a) no one cared, even-to-the-point of a wink wink from a ranger no less! and b) no one was around. Ok then, why isn't anyone castigating and condemning him ? Heck, he even came on a public forum an admitted it! (shame on you Nitric).

Ok, and for the record: 1) I do not go 56 in 55 mph zones, and 2) I do not spit on the sidewalks in New York. (in case anyone was wondering). Now the REST of you may be lawless miscreants, but no, not me.

I think the OP should mention the specific type of property that his buddies are visiting. Private property is a completely different animal than state/city/Federal owned. I hunt state parks several times a year. Am I sneaking my detector in, acting sketchy, and always looking over my shoulder? No. Because its perfectly legal and clearly stated in the park rules online. Even the federally owned National Forest allows detecting as long as it is not in an archaeological site. State/city/Federal owned land usually have very clear rules where you can find out if detecting is prohibited or not.

It sounds like McKinney's buddies are sneaking onto some private property without permission, or are knowingly hunting on a park or municipal owned property where detecting has been banned for whatever reasons.

Remember the sly fellows who were hunting Civil War relics on TVA property?

Ummmmmm This story sounds a little too "close to home"! In the past year I went to my land. There was a trench down one side of it as a fire block I wasn't sure what made it. Some of the trees were burnt before the block(no real damage on my side)..The land next to it was burnt and timbered! I hadn't been there in a few years. So it happened within the past few years. So this must happen often, or................ what are the chances

??

Don't give location! Are you in the next state over from me?LOL I doubt it! But ....You never know!lol

His property is a few states north of you!

 

[McKinney_5900]

The method is to just drive around in high profile, older area of the city and look for neglected properties...unmowed yards, newspapers in the yard, junk mail on the doorknob, maybe a car that hasn't moved in a while, and then hit the front yard fast. There are at least two groups of tectors I know of running in competition on any given day.