Is this what US treasure hunters can expect....jail time?

[Mr.T]

Taz?

Please explain? 99.9 per cent of people here would love to find a treasure to hand over to the authorities.
100 per cent know it would never be seen again.

What if it was an important find?

Treated like criminals.

hmm.

Mel Fisher spent half his time fighting bureaucratic wankers.

His is one of the very few treasures you are allowed to see -
The truth always outs. It was done in plain sight.

He found more gold, than is in your government mint!

It makes them ill- the authorities.

A lackless, moronic, bunch of lowlife freeloaders, who couldn't find their arse if there was a bell on it.

I just want to unearth a bit of history so it doesn't rot in the ground.

Couldn't care less who owns it after that.

 

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[yakker]

I'm sorry TH, not attacking T-Net, tho I guess it seemed so.
Limitool, to answer your question honestly, I would say, if the object or objects I found were history-changing, yes. Not stuff as is often found. Not your typical stuff. Something unusual and wildly different, yes. I would tell someone. I'd ask. I'd be on line w;/ you-all, trying to figure out what ti was, and in the process, trying to do the right thing. I'm not an archaeologist. I'm not government. I just think that it's important to do the right thing in whatever relative context that might mean. Whether it's a dog tag, or a wedding ring or a skull... a gun...a Bronze Age artifact... To simply say- that no one has the right to hold it for legitimate study, to put it in a time-line, a contextual... oh c'mon. This isn't a ring. This isn't a common artifact. This is like finding ... like this- Ancient skull offers clues to humans' migration out of Africa | Earth | EarthSky

Doesn't anyone agree that some things are different and deserve a different attitude, a different respect?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

..... I seeked nor asked no more permission to keep a long lost cache .....

Limitool, when I bring up the part about "asking if you can keep such & such" or "asking permission" (to detect or to keep), I think we're getting a little confused here. My point in posing that , is to suggest that whatever answer those persons gave us, is PROBABLY going to be couched (answered) in terms of laws. What I mean is, if that person whom you asked said "absolutely not !", they would .... no doubt ....... have some sort of law to cite. To back up their assertions that you can't keep the goodie or cache.

So it's the LAW that I was wanting to show is therefore no different in Germany, than it is here . That is........ if you ask long enough and hard enough of enough persons. It wasn't so much to poke fun at "asking permission" . It was to bring attention to the fact that laws like the ones said to be broken in this OP, are ....... when you think of it, not limited to just these far away places. They can even be said to apply to the most innocuous beach or sandbox you come to.

 

[Nugs Bunny]

Do you guys realize how many men are in Germany waiting to go home? Or in Europe for that matter....

There are several groups that search for those who never made it back from a war they never wanted.

Brothers, sons fathers buried in mass graves, some were recovered some were not. German soldiers from WWI were found in a mass grave still wearing their boots and helmets, others from WWII were found with their rifles and all their gear.

The US Military has a special team that searches for and recovers those MIA... one of the soldiers claimed how good it felt to know they would search for him until they brought him home should something happen.

Powerful words... we will bring you home!

There are those that metal detect the battle sites of these wars, just search Youtube, my God they pull entire Panzer tanks out of bogs and rivers there, the relic hunters find handfuls of Nazi relics and dozens of machine guns.

Body parts are like pull tabs in some areas, in one video I watched them find a couple of jaw bones in a garbage pile left behind from a relic hunter.

Now let me ask you... if you gave the ultimate sacrifice to honor your Country... would you want to be left behind in a forgotten mass grave? Or would you want to come home and be honored for your service and sacrifice.

 

[Nugs Bunny]

"Now let me ask you... if you gave the ultimate sacrifice to honor your Country... would you want to be left behind in a forgotten mass grave? Or would you want to come home and be honored for your service and sacrifice."

Personally I wouldn't want someone to use anyone's sacrifice to limit the freedom of metal detecting. This is what I brought back from Germany.

Moving... but still not an answer to the question.

Are you saying you would be ok with having your remains tossed aside and any medals or buttons that could identify you taken home with a relic hunter? Or how about your Grandpa?

Now to be honest my entire point was people go out and look for these bodies using metal detectors and metal probes, Europe is littered with battle sites forgotten graves, bodies of soldiers, ordinance, planes, tanks you name from the war it's still there.

I never once mentioned metal detecting should be restricted or banned... it's sad so many men were left behind and forgotten... it's sad a human jawbone has as much meaning to their own Country men as an old tin can.

What would be proper is to search for every man who never made it home, and for those who find them to not loot the site and toss the remains aside like garbage.

Here is another video, all of this stuff is that of the dead, I don't see a problem with collecting relics if there isn't soldiers buried with them. Lot's of videos on Youtube of folks digging those old mass graves and finding tons of relics... but the bodies were taken home long ago.

It's not like the hallowed ground of the Civil War, WWI and WWII encompassed a lot of Europe.

Just like Ohio, you really can't go many places without desecrating Indian sites... there were over 11,000 mounds and earthworks in the State, most have been built on top of. There are two Indian villages and several burial sites within minutes of my home... this was the Western Frontier and many battles were fought here between the Colonies and France, the last battle of the Revolution was fought just across the river.

Soon after that there were many wars between the Indians and Americans trying to settle the land that is now Ohio. Detroit Michigan used to be part of Ohio and Virginia and Connecticut also laid claim to land here. Parcels were sold to the Ohio Company and slowly the Indians were driven out.

 

[Nugs Bunny]

What's your point Nugs? Are you highlighting how proper detecting can be helpful or are you highlighting how improper detecting can be harmful. I sense the latter but if it is both I don't think you did a good job.

I'm saying it's ok to dig up those bodies if the intention is sending them home. But to just pick the site clean of relics would be wrong.

Now if you notice in the last videos I posted the relics are clearly of those killed in battle, but there are no bodies or body parts.

My grandfather sent home lots of "spoils of war" it was common for soldiers to collect items from those they killed and send them home or keep smaller items as good luck charms.

A rifle with battle damage and the "bringback" paperwork can sell for ten times what one in vintage shape would go for... or higher depending on how much history was known or if it came from a specific battle.

Sturmgewehre 44 turns up at gun buyback

 

[Nugs Bunny]

Group picture of massive haul of formal Adolf Hitler silverware taken from the Berghof by a 101st veteran in May of 1945.



Military Trader: Our readers love stories about collectors’ “Favorite Finds.” Tell us about what you consider one of your favorite finds during the past 30 years.

Bill Shea: I have been extremely fortunate to have uncovered many rare and exotic souvenirs over the past six decades. Hundreds of these stories will appear in my upcoming book. I’ve selected one to share with your readers. It’s called, “STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN…Treasure Trove of Adolf Hitler Silverware Right Out Of His Kitchen.”
Some collectors say “don’t buy the story, buy the item!” Well I, for one, have never believed in that philosophy. I guess a lot of that depends on who is telling you the story.

Well, these details are directly from the mouth and the written word of a P.F.C. (name withheld at his request) from Charlie Company, 2nd Battalion, 506 Parachute Infantry Regiment of the 101st Airborne Division. These details were gathered both from a letter he wrote, and a face-to-face conversation he had with a good friend of mine in 2006.

And boy did he have a story to tell. He related that he, like most of the boys in his Queens N.Y. neighborhood, entered the service in March of 1943 when he turned 18. He first went to the armor corps at Fort Polk as part of the 8th Armor Division. He then entered training with the Army Air Corps as a pilot, but this program was cut short. He then volunteered for the paratroopers and trained at Fort Benning in Georgia.

In December 1944, he was assigned to the 101st Division in France. They were quickly whisked off to Belgium and attached to the 506th. This is where he encountered Colonel Sink who was standing on a jeep with a frozen dead German soldier at his feet. He proceeded to tell all these replacements that it was their job to hold the town of Bastogne at all costs. Shortly before Christmas, 1944 he was assigned to “C” company.

Having survived that historical event, he was then speeding through the Rhineland to Bavaria without opposition in April 1945. When they reached Berchtesgaden and the Berghof area, he said they could see this stone structure on the top of a near-by snow covered mountain. He related how one of the sergeants asked for four volunteers to go to the top and secure the building. He said “My hand shot up because by then I knew it was Hitler’s Eagles Nest.”

The elevator was not working so it was no easy task. However, what waited for them was worth the work. When they arrived, then encountered a few drunk French soldiers, but otherwise, had the place to themselves. He said, and I quote, “Once inside we began to search for valuables. Tapping on the paneled walls in the huge dining room, we found one place that had a different sound. A small strip of molding was moved to reveal a lock. Having found a ring of keys in the basement, we finally opened a wall safe containing fourteen trays of Hitler’s silverware. Since each piece had the Nazi insignia on it, this qualified our find as ‘legal war booty’.”

Having been to the Kehlsteinhaus (Eagle’s Nest was the name given to this location by the soldiers) on two occasions, I can picture the exact area he was talking about. I believe we might refer to it as a butler’s pantry where dishes, pots and pans would be stored. However, the good stuff would be under lock and key only to be brought out for formal occasions. I can picture these GIs remembering the movies from the 1930s with all the secret compartments, hidden rooms, and revolving walls. Pretty exciting stuff considering you have just survived months of fighting!

He went on to say, and again, I quote, “All the trays were placed on the large dining room table. The sergeant made five piles of silverware pieces until everyone agreed they were as equal as possible. Then we each chose a pile that we carried around until we were able to mail it home after officer inspection.”
Each pile contained over 100 pieces of the formal A.H. silverware. What an incredible haul. It’s even more amazing that everything made it home knowing that there were a lot of “sticky fingers” in between leaving the parcels off at the APO and it arriving home safe and sound to Queens, N.Y.

This proud member of “The Greatest Generation” held onto these trophies for 60 years until a greater calling occurred. A friend of mine from Pennsylvania had established contact with him but was never able to convince him to sell these treasures.
However, fate intervened. This hero is a religious man and the church he attended needed funding to erect a steeple and a new cross. It was at this moment that he realized he could use these souvenirs for a very good purpose. In fact, when he decided to sell these items to Mike, he initially insisted that the proceeds go directly to the pastor at the church as he did not want to handle the money. The result of all of this is that the church was able to erect the steeple and purchase a beautiful cross for the congregation.

When Mike contacted me I was speechless. All he had to tell me was the story, and the fact that along with the silverware came a photo album with many pictures of the paratrooper and his buddies. Some of these images show our hero right at the Eagle’s Nest and others show his buddies horsing around, one being dressed in an SS uniform and another wrapped in a German party banner. At this point it was all over for me because the veteran’s story combined with the pictures and, oh, by the way, over 100 pieces of some very rare and unusual items such as cigar cutters, fruit knives, grape snippers, sugar tongs, etc.
I had to have this grouping because it would be a lot of fun to handle and market. Many collections around the world today now have a piece or two of the silverware from this haul.

- See more at: 10 Questions with Bill Shea: Third Reich collecting a safe gamble? | Military Trader

 

[Phantasman]

Interesting article. I'm glad it wound up in a place for all to see.

Not interested in this debate though. Too many hypothetical's. If I ever dug anything of great value, I'd be seeking professional guidance.

 

[jmaryt]

I already live in New York. What might become illegal is currently a much smaller list that what has already become illegal.

Happily, even the police don't know half the current laws so we do what we do until someone complains.

this is 'dead nuts" accurate!..been hunting for over
35 years,and you can go any where until someone
*****es,HOWEVER,more are *****ing today than even a few years ago.
this is a direct result of situational awareness!..people are more "paranoid"
today than ever before,thus,leading to more complaints,and subsequently
being "pitched" from sites!..way it is!..live with it,or take up fishin'
as the asians say,..it's "suuuuup" to you!

(h.h.!)
j.t.

 

[Limitool]

I sure wouldn't look for relics knowing or suspecting fallen soldiers could be around knowingly buried. No is the answer. MDing and digging up fallen soldiers don't go together.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Nugs, 2 of your posts with burial remains were deleted, if you want to repost them leaving out the burial remains you can..

 

[offtrail]

What the F--- you talking about your an idiot!!! now take that and hold it!!! Just my opinion!!!

 

[Nugs Bunny]

Nugs, 2 of your posts with burial remains were deleted, if you want to repost them leaving out the burial remains you can..

You're killin' me here!

No point in reposting I just wanted to show how many men are still out there in these battlefields waiting to ship home.

 

[Nugs Bunny]

My grandfather sent home lots of "spoils of war" it was common for soldiers to collect items from those they killed and send them home or keep smaller items as good luck charms.--Nugs Bunny

It seems like you think this is proper. Am I understanding you correctly ?

I'm not in favor of grave robbing or disturbing human remains excepts to give them a proper burial such as bringing them back home. I think there are laws regarding human remains that are meant to protect them. I don't think proper metal detecting would go against those laws. Restricting metal detecting because some do not do it proper is not the best route in my opinion. I would think that encouraging detecting and promoting reporting of burial sites would better serve the issue of respect for the remains. If a person would find an item that has no direct link to human remains they could honor all by doing as they wish with that item.

It doesn't matter if I find it proper or not... it was common practice. One can still bring home spoils of war... just not functioning firearms or anything bigger than a bayonet, both in size or lethality.

Now if a U.S. Soldier is at war and kills a man face to face, do I find it proper for him to take a souvenir ? I would say yes... I would also pat the him on the back, give him a firm handshake, a thank you and buy him a beer too!

As far as metal detecting where did I ever claim I think it should be restricted? A lot of those lost graves are found by guys with.... wait for it... wait for it... metal detectors.

Some folks sadly enough pillage these places or just don't realize it's actually a grave. The artifacts found along with the remains are usually the only way most of those forgotten soldiers are identified.

Have some respect... it's not always solely about YOU and YOUR metal detector!

If one comes across human remains they should stop digging immediately and contact the authorities... that is what is proper!

If it's a lost soldier or a murder victim, taking any relics/evidence will impede the process of identifying them... food for thought or just common sense... you decide!