would you return a diamond ring?

[kingvegan]

I lost a diamond pinky ring years ago and my insurance agent sent me a check and I keep thinking of that as I wonder if I would seek out the name engraved on 1 carat diamond ring should I ever find one. Giving back a class ring is one thing but a ring worth a several thousand dollars......I don't think so. If you find a ring that has had an insurance claim paid on it, what is the point of returning it, so that the person who lost it gets a check and the ring? Is it likely that an expensive ring has insurance? I found a heavy platinum wedding band a few years ago and if it had a name in it I know I would have returned it......but that was a few years ago. I like to think of myself as the kind of person who does the right thing but the older I get the more I think that the right thing to do would be to keep the diamond ring in good conscience.

 

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[ivan salis]

well by law -- if it has a "name" on it (and most class rings are indeed marked with the owners name - typically) -you are to try to return it to the owner * since the "owner" is known...same goes with other known ownership rings by law ,,, to take another "known " persons "lost" property and to keep it for yourself is --called theft by conversion ... taking your stuff and claiming it as mine .. the bible says a stray farm animal that wonders away from its owner shall be returned by the finder of it , to its owner (the basis of this "law" ) is if the owner is known return what belongs to them to them ... however if the item is "unmarked" and thus the owner is{'unknown" than that is a different matter ---most folks would just sell or keep the ring as ownership" would be next to impossible to establish --and many false claimers would step forward for a item worth several thousand dollars if a ad were placed in a newspaper ....but even so by law again --if the owner is unknown , in many places you are legally bound to turn it into the local police who are to hold it for say 90 days --and if no one claims it the "title" is then given to you as "abandoned property"...myself if unmarked --its mine and if marked it goes to the "cops" ---- if there is no claimer and I get it back ---then I do a good faith attempt to return it -- if not once again its mine .

I think of "marked" items vs "unmarked items" much like this -- say you are coming out of a store and see a $20 bill on in the parking lot area on the ground with no one around close to it ( basically unmarked jewelry owner unknown) cha ching your "lucky day" --- now say you are walking out and see a person ahead of you drop a $20 bill by accident and start to walk away , (thus a known owner "marked" item )-- if you "take" this $20 and do not attempt to give it back to its "lawful" owner --in the eyes of the law and biblically speaking ==your a thief -- because its morally wrong

 

[kingvegan]

Ivan I am not sure you would be morally wrong for not returning a ring that has a name written in it. Lets say a random person loses a ring at a picnic and they realize it and think to themselves ' oh my god I lost my ring somewhere under those giant oak trees at the park" and three years later you find the ring half a inch down under the giant oaks/ Wouldn't it be safe to say the person had abandoned the ring by not getting a metal detector and going after such an easy target / Isnt it true that a name does not mean ownership? If an insurance company pays Suzie Q $3000 for a lost ring claim, who owns the ring? I would think the insurance company, so if you did the 'moral' thing and returned the ring to Suzie you would be hoping that she does the moral thing and alert the insurance company and not just keep the ring and the money. I understand there may be laws but I wonder how may people tell the I.R.S that they found $380 worth of clad and $800 worth of silver and gold in the last year . you say you would return the ring and thats what I asked so thanks for sharing

 

[L.C. BAKER]

If they had an active search party working the area looking for the said ring, I would give it to it's rightful owner expecting no reward...BUT may take any that was offered depending on the offering party's financial status. "If they ain't looking for it, it is not lost, it is abandoned". Just my two cents.

 

[coinman123]

Yes, If there is a chance I can return it I will try to. If it is an unmarked ring than I would keep it unless there is still away to find the owner.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Ivan I am not sure you would be morally wrong for not returning a ring that has a name written in it. Lets say a random person loses a ring at a picnic and they realize it and think to themselves ' oh my god I lost my ring somewhere under those giant oak trees at the park" and three years later you find the ring half a inch down under the giant oaks/ Wouldn't it be safe to say the person had abandoned the ring by not getting a metal detector and going after such an easy target / Isnt it true that a name does not mean ownership? If an insurance company pays Suzie Q $3000 for a lost ring claim, who owns the ring? I would think the insurance company, so if you did the 'moral' thing and returned the ring to Suzie you would be hoping that she does the moral thing and alert the insurance company and not just keep the ring and the money. I understand there may be laws but I wonder how may people tell the I.R.S that they found $380 worth of clad and $800 worth of silver and gold in the last year . you say you would return the ring and thats what I asked so thanks for sharing

There has been more than one attempt in the past by an insurance co. to claim ship wrecks that were paid off before they were found and recovered.

 

[ivan salis]

if the person got paid off by insurance for the loss of said ring ... and its returned to the owner by law the owner either has to give said ring to the insurance company or they can buy it back by returning the money -- IF THEY DO NOT REPORT ITS RETURN --THEN THEY CAN FACE "INSURANCE FRAUD" CHARGES WHICH COUD LEAD TO A LONG JAIL TERM ... YOU FINDING AND SELLING TO A PAWNING SHOP FOR SCRAP METAL VALUE A MARKED BIT OF JEWELRY ----( ANY MARKED "INDENTIFIBLE ITEM ) -COULD LEAD TO YOU BEIG CHARGED WITH SELLING "STOLEN GOODS" IF THE PERSON THAT LOST IT REPORTED THE LOST ITEM AS -STOLEN TO THE NSURANCE OMPANY RATHER THAN JUST SAYING IT W AS "LOST" THRU THEIR CARELESSNESS ( IN FEAR THAT THE INSURANCE COMPANY MIGHT NOT PAYOFF IN CASE OF LOSS THRU CARELESSNESS BUT WOULD FOR THEFT)

THATS WHY I ALWAYS TURNOVER MARKED ITEMS FOR THE COPS TO HOLD FOR THE 90 WAIT PEROID --THAT WAY I GET A RECIEPT FROM THE COPS THAT MAKES ME THE "LEGAL OWNER" AND I CAN DO AS I PLEASE WITH NO SWEAT

 

[pepperj]

I've learnt through the years of dealing with folks that there's many different views on what is right and wrong when it comes to an insurance claim or even the legal ownership of an item(s). It comes down to it's their pillow and they sleep on it, not me.

 

[yodi]

If I was detecting and some one told me the area they lost a ring and I found it I would give it back but besides that I believe in finders keepers. Hats off to you all who would return it but I'll be honest and say I'm a pirate and it be mine!!!!!!

 

[kingvegan]

well ivan we certainly disagree here. If a person keeps the returned ring and does not report it they may be guilty of insurance fraud but in reality they are not going to get caught, but what if they decide to do the right thing and actually do report it and the insurance company gets the ring.....well I honestly would feel like a schmuck giving the ring up to a insurance company. Your pawn shop example seems odd for a couple of reasons. First, if a person reports a lost ring as stolen then that would also be insurance fraud and the matter would be made even worse if they actually filed a false police report, would it not? of course once again, they would not be caught. Second I would never sell scrap or any other jewelry to a pawn shop. you will get more by selling to a jeweler. Pawn shops have lots of laws governing the way they buy and sell jewelry, I.D.s , signatures , fingerprints, wait periods , police hot sheets etc. Jewelers do not.( actually I must say that the laws differ by state, I am referring to Mississippi ) I am a Graduate Gemologist and worked in wholesale and retail, never did I report anything to police that I bought over the counter, I was not required to. Nor did I need to see an I.D. or get a fingerprint. I could buy a diamond engagement ring from a divorcee over the counter and sell it retail the very same day , which I actually did do.(usually I didn't even give them money but rather traded them for several less valuable pieces, that's a double whammy brother, women that would fight for that ring would just give it away out of spite or anger or I don't know why) I often bought larger diamonds from pawnshops because they would get them cheaper than Hasidic diamond merchants, but man did they have to put up with red tape. It has been some years since I worked in the trade so maybe the laws are different now but is does not matter because you can still just bring your scrap to a jeweler and have it melted into new jewelry pretty cheap, that would be better to me than getting raped at a pawn shop.
finally, you clearly trust cops more than I do. yeah I have known some good ones, and I have played poker in back rooms of Mississippi pool halls with some true blue criminals with a badge. Funny thing is I used to think like you not long ago, maybe I have become jaded on humanity or maybe I woke up to the real world, you guys can be the judge.

"sometimes it is easier to get forgiveness than permission" oh yes indeed.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

King-vegan, you have opened up an interesting can of worms. LOTS of rabbit trail tentacles on this subject:

1) as was said by others here: The ring owner, who got ins. $, is now technically supposed to give the ring to the ins. co, or return the $$ .

2) And you guys are all wrong, that there needs to be "identifying marks" on a ring, in order for you to have a legal obligation to turn in such items. Because you see, every state has lost & found laws.

a) The criteria for what must be turned in, is a threshold value level of somewhere between $100 and $250, for each state (value thresholds vary a bit by state).

b) And the law makes NO DISTINCTION on when *you* think it was lost, and whether *you* think the person has given up looking for it, etc...

c) Also it makes no distinction on how an item is valued either (eg.: the melt value ? the store-bought value ? etc...). And while I know it's easy for us to go by the melt or pawn-shop value in our justification to keep items , yet ... I have a feeling you would be on the short-end of that legal stick, if you ever tried to use that rationalization. Because think of it: a brand new I-pod phone might have only $3.00 of "instrinsic value" (some plastic, some copper, some silicone, etc...). But OBVIOUSLY the thing is worth $300 or whatever, right ? So if you "found" it on the counter at the local pub, or "found" it at the bus stop, I'm betting that you (technically speaking) would be required to turn it in to the police, because they would be by retail or re-sale value, not "intrinsic melt" value.

d) Also: the law makes no allowance for you to do your own repatriation attempts through "found" ads on CL (or pinning a note to a telephone pole, etc...). It clearly says that it must go through proper police lost & found procedures

3) as for the discussion of "lost" versus "stolen", (when someone goes to make their insurance claim), here's the rub on that: You've got to remember that when someone loses their ring, they don't often know exactly where or when they lost it. Or even if it was "lost" to begin with. For example: they may think a) "I might have left it on the bed stand at the hotel room, and the dastardly hotel maid might have snatched it", or b) I might have left it on the sink in the restaurant's bathroom, when I went to wash my hands, and the next customer to use the bathroom therefore "stole" it. And all-the-while, the truth is, maybe they just lost it on the beach (and simply didn't know). So when that person tries to make an insurance claim, the insurance co. is going to ask for a police report. And when the person goes to make the police report, often-time it simply gets put down as "lost/stolen", because they simply don't know. Thus there's not necessarily "hanky-panky" going on in saying something was stolen, versus lost. It's just the way police reports read. Because remember too: In the eyes of the person who lost it, even if they DID "lose" it, is that the next passerby who finds it, and fails to turn it in, HAS IN FACT "STOLEN" it. So no matter how-you-slice it, it's still "stolen", if you fail to turn it in.

4) And don't be so quick to think that only things engraved with ins. mark #s, or names and dates , etc... are the items that have ID's in them. It's actually possible nowadays (as you might know kingvegan, since you are a gemologist), to micro-engrave diamonds with ID's, serial #'s, and so forth. It takes a powerful loop to see it (or perhaps a microscope?). And there's been cases of persons who tried to sell a diamond ring they'd found, only to get a pleasant surprise, that they were in possession of a "stolen item", when they went to try to pawn or sell.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

And now that I've posted all that, I'm quite certain that all of you md'rs who are reading this, are now going to rush down to the police state lost & found department, each time you find a gold ring. Right ?

 

[Nugs Bunny]

No I'm going to ask that you post the "Lost and Found laws" for Ohio...

There is no law requiring lost items be turned into the police... however here is the law if you do turn in property to them.

Lawriter - ORC - 505.105 Property recovered by police department.
505.105 Property recovered by police department.
Stolen or other property recovered by members of an organized police department of a township, a township police district, a joint police district, or the office of a township constable shall be deposited and kept in a place designated by the head of the department, district, or office. Each article of property shall be entered in a book kept for that purpose, with the name of its owner, if ascertained, the person from whom it was taken, the place where it was found with general circumstances, the date of its receipt, and the name of the officer receiving it.
An inventory of all money or other property shall be given to the party from whom it was taken, and, if it is not claimed by some person within thirty days after arrest and seizure, it shall be delivered to the person from whom it was taken, and to no other person, either attorney, agent, factor, or clerk, except by special order of the head of the department, district, or office.
Amended by 129th General AssemblyFile No.28, HB 153, §101.01, eff. 9/29/2011.
[SIZE=-1]Effective Date: 09-29-1999 [/SIZE]

 

[Nugs Bunny]

Ohio is a Common Law State, here is a little more on Lost Property under Common Law.


https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/lost_property
[h=1]Lost Property[/h] The common law distinguished between lost property and mislaid property. Lost property is personal property that was unintentionally left by its true owner. Mislaid property is personal property that was intentionally set down by its owner and then forgotten. For example, a wallet that falls out of someone's pocket is lost. A wallet accidentally left on a table in a restaurant is mislaid.
At common law, a person who found lost personal property could keep it until and unless the original owner comes forward. This rule applied to people who discovered lost property in public areas, as well as to people who discovered lost property on their property. Mislaid property, on the other hand, generally goes to the owner of the property where it was found. Thus, for example, a person who finds a wallet lost in the street may keep it. If, however, a person finds a wallet inside a barbershop, the shop owner might have a better claim to the wallet. The basic theory behind this distinction is that owners of mislaid property are more likely to remember where the property is. Allowing property owners to keep it makes it easier for the true owner to recover the property.
Real property may not be lost or mislaid.
Many jurisdictions have statutes that modify the common law's treatment of lost or abandoned property. Typically, these statutes require lost personal property to be turned over to a government official, and that if the property is not claimed within a set period of time, it goes to the finder and the original owner's rights to the property are terminated.

 

[billyjoe42]

While shopping in the cookie aisle, I spotted two $5 bills on the floor. I asked a nearby lady if she had dropped them, & she said: "No, dear child; I think the Good Lord wanted you to get some extra cookies today." So it was only $10 (or 3 bags of Oreos), but it bears on "doing the right thing". And no, I am not a "Goodie-two shoes".

 

[cw0909]

I lost a diamond pinky ring years ago and my insurance agent sent me a check and I keep thinking of that as I wonder if I would seek out the name engraved on 1 carat diamond ring should I ever find one. Giving back a class ring is one thing but a ring worth a several thousand dollars......I don't think so. If you find a ring that has had an insurance claim paid on it, what is the point of returning it, so that the person who lost it gets a check and the ring? Is it likely that an expensive ring has insurance? I found a heavy platinum wedding band a few years ago and if it had a name in it I know I would have returned it......but that was a few years ago. I like to think of myself as the kind of person who does the right thing but the older I get the more I think that the right thing to do would be to keep the diamond ring in good conscience.

well if you try to sell said diamond, it may have had a laser inscription, for insurance purpose
and prob is listed in a database somewhere, so belongs to the insurance co. i would think
if you just wanted to have it reset you prob could

laser inscription
Diamond Laser Inscription: Diamond Source of Virginia Loose Diamonds Education

forgot the lab and plot inclusion map part
http://www.diamondsourceva.com/Education/Certification/gia-certification.asp#gia-certifications

 

[Msbeepbeep]

Ok here's my take on this not having read all the posts.
My first find with the M6 was for a neighbor that had lost her wedding ring and her husband has just died. Found it and returned. If the ring I find had no identifying marks, I am keeping it. Having had jewelry stolen from my house, if you find it (it is not marked, not insured) keep it. But that's me.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

....the "Lost and Found laws" for Ohio... There is no law requiring lost items be turned into the police...

Really ? No Lost & found laws for Ohio (except the one you posted, which doesn't seem to make it a requirement) ?? I was under the assumption that EVERY state had lost & found laws. They were born out of wandering cattle laws of the 1800s.

And they make perfect sense when you think about it. Otherwise, think of the consequences:

a) If a Brinks Armored car door swung open on the freeway, and wads of money came flying out, then what would there be to stop the next lucky passerbys from stopping to scoop up wads of money saying "finders keepers" ?

b) Every thief caught walking down the street from the house they just stole it out of, would/could say "I found it". Doh!

Anyhow, I'm surprised that's all Ohio has. Seems to me there *must* be something there with a value criteria.

How about other states guys ?

 

[Argentium]

This is easy - If it is possible to return a piece of property to a person through an engraved name - DO IT ! It's none of
your business whether or not the piece was insured !

 

[Keppy]

KEEP IT .... It is that simple..