Disgruntled Digger Pt 2

[Crowdcontrol]

If you'd like you can read my first post in the "Todays Finds" section titled disgruntled digger. If not here is a short overview.

I looked all over online and couldn't find anything barring metal detecting at this public park in my town. I even sent a letter to the chamber of commerce 2 weeks ago asking if it was permitted and didn't hear back. So i went digging, some neighbors called in and reported me and I was told by a police officer that the city didn't want me digging there. He was a nice guy really so i didn't give him any guff and left.

Well i thought about it for awhile while digging in a friends back yard (found a bicentennial half) and I decided to go to city hall.
So i walk in and ask the woman behind the counter if she could provide me with any information about the public parks in town.
She had a few things that showed what events were coming and were going to be held at which park and etc. Well i combed through all that and couldn't find anything about metal detecting so I just asked her if there were any laws or regulations or anything concerning metal detecting. She pulled up a few things about it being unlawful to do on state parks and native american land and burial grounds. No biggie, I was already well aware of that. However she couldn't come up with anything about the public park in particular that I was told the city didn't want me digging in. I sat there for probably 30 or 40 minutes while she looked. So then I made a stop at the court house and came up empty there as well. There was nothing saying that i couldn't do what i had been doing. I find myself a bit upset about the whole ordeal. Who are these people who called me in? And why would they do that? Sure they could mention that i was digging holes to the police dispatch, but do you think they mentioned i was carrying a plastic bag around with me that I was filling with litter? Of course they didn't. Id say today I dug around 20 small plugs at that park. I would challenge any of those nosey neighbors or even the police officer to try and find 5. Im very careful when I dig. I clean up after myself well, and at the time I was even cleaning up after others! Hopefully I can resolve this by speaking to the head of city council, who should be back in town soon. I guess its not all bad though, managed to sneak a mercury dime out of that park before I was told to leave.

 

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[coinman123]

That's annoying, from what I have heard it is perfectly fine to metal detecting at a park. I have even had police officers wish me luck on find stuff when I'm metal detecting at parks.

 

[Loco-Digger]

CC sometimes silence is golden. I thought you were going to talk to that friend of the family. As stated on the other posts. Not all officers will do more than ask if your finding anything. Here, where I live it's just one officer out of approx 10. That gives me a 90% success rate

 

[MrMikeJackie]

You have done you're due diligence. Go back and detect. If the police come back turn you're cell phone on and ask them to state what law you are breaking. Explain to them you left the first time out of respect and did you're research. I once told a police office that if I had to leave then I would sit in my car and call 911 every time someone steps on the field to play ball, walk a dog, fly a kite, etc. I pay my taxes, sorry.

 

[Argentium]

You make a decent point MrMikeJackie - the fact is a group of people playing football, rugby , or soccer , would do way more damage
to the park than a single experienced metal detectorist . The difficulty here is that we are seeking a rational response from people
who may not be capable of it .

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I have no doubt that they can, in fact, find something that can be morphed to say/mean "no digging". Thus you will probably loose that debate.

I have been booted from a few parks, in a few cities, over the years, in the identical situation you cite here. And after giving it a "cooling off period" (wait a few weeks or month), have returned. And never had another issue again. It might mean choosing a better (uh .... "more discreet" ) time to go.

Bottom line is: A single "scram" does not , in my mind, constitute a new law or rule "which must be fought, appealed, etc...". Sometimes it just means: "Avoid that singular busy-body".

 

[Roger Mn.]

Call your local Parks and Recreation Department. They are the ones to talk to not someone at city hall.

 

[Rodbuster209]

I myself would not approach the city council by themselves or as a council in session because you might end up getting a specific rule prohibiting detecting, I would wait a few days then go in there early. Good Luck!

 

[MrMikeJackie]

You never ask if it's ok to metal detect public property. You will only be told "no". Do you're research and find out what the law is. Look for what exact ordinances and codes exist. When a police officer gets the hint that you know the law better then they do, they leave you alone. In my experience.

 

[flinthunter]

Most likely there is an ordinance against disturbing vegetation in your local park. When you turn over the grass, that is disturbing vegetation and a violation of the possible ordinance. Unless you wish to hire a lawyer to check into it, I would just move on to a different park.

 

[MrMikeJackie]

I once had this discussion with Tom_in_Ca on a previous thread. Although I highly disagreed with him then, I have come to the conclusion he was right on many points. If you ask you will always be told no out of sheer ignorance and inability to answer the question. The question in itself now opens up a can of worms. That said person will now be on the lookout for anyone metal detecting. Do your own research!

 

[MrMikeJackie]

Most likely there is an ordinance against disturbing vegetation in your local park. When you turn over the grass, that is disturbing vegetation and a violation of the possible ordinance. Unless you wish to hire a lawyer to check into it, I would just move on to a different park.

Right, most likely there might be. So you move on, and on, and on, etc.. If we keep this up there won't be anywhere to detect.

 

[Tnmountains]

You can push it till you get permission.
You can push it till you end up in jail.
You can push it until they pass an ordinance saying no metal detecting.
This has happened hundreds of times on here and usually with new hunters. You will figure out what is worth your efforts to hunt.
You did well in the park could be better places waiting and with less hassle.

 

[Higgy]

You never ask if it's ok to metal detect public property. You will only be told "no". Do you're research and find out what the law is. Look for what exact ordinances and codes exist. When a police officer gets the hint that you know the law better then they do, they leave you alone. In my experience.

Here's what I do, and I've never been turned away.

When seeking to detect public land, parks, curbs trips, etc., I go right to the chief of police. I ask him if there's ever been any trouble with people detecting on the common, park or curb strips, and if there are any foreboding town ordinances that would prevent me from detecting. Usually, the Chief of Police in the towns up here are more of a public figure, and a politician. They're peacekeepers. They aren't interested in turning people off, and turning them away - especially if you are a landowner/taxpayer. This method has never failed.

Why? Because the Chief always gives me permission saying, "Just be careful, and don't leave a mess," and usually I get a smile and a, "have fun."

When the inevitable town employee/busybody accosts me, I say, "Well, Chief So'n'so said it was okay to do this, and if you disagree, you can take it up with him." I'm assertive, but not cocky or combative. That line is for all the non-cops. If a deputy, or off-duty cop comes up to me, I am of course a lot more pliable, and humble, saying, "Well, Chief So'n'so said it was okay to do this, and I just saw him a hour ago. If you radio him, I'm sure he'll tell you I was just there. Most cops that work under a Chief of Police isn't going to bother him with anything petty, and they typically just go away.

Granted, my method only works in small towns, because its highly-unlikely that you could get close to the Chief of Police of a large town or small city without an appointment or going through several layers of lackeys just to get to him.

I hope that some of you find this tactic helpful, because it seems like a lot of you are getting jacked up for detecting in areas that are perfectly legal. HH

 

[MrMikeJackie]

Here's what I do, and I've never been turned away.

When seeking to detect public land, parks, curbs trips, etc., I go right to the chief of police. I ask him if there's ever been any trouble with people detecting on the common, park or curb strips, and if there are any foreboding town ordinances that would prevent me from detecting. Usually, the Chief of Police in the towns up here are more of a public figure, and a politician. They're peacekeepers. They aren't interested in turning people off, and turning them away - especially if you are a landowner/taxpayer. This method has never failed.

Why? Because the Chief always gives me permission saying, "Just be careful, and don't leave a mess," and usually I get a smile and a, "have fun."

When the inevitable town employee/busybody accosts me, I say, "Well, Chief So'n'so said it was okay to do this, and if you disagree, you can take it up with him." I'm assertive, but not cocky or combative. That line is for all the non-cops. If a deputy, or off-duty cop comes up to me, I am of course a lot more pliable, and humble, saying, "Well, Chief So'n'so said it was okay to do this, and I just saw him a hour ago. If you radio him, I'm sure he'll tell you I was just there. Most cops that work under a Chief of Police isn't going to bother him with anything petty, and they typically just go away.

Granted, my method only works in small towns, because its highly-unlikely that you could get close to the Chief of Police of a large town or small city without an appointment or going through several layers of lackeys just to get to him.

I hope that some of you find this tactic helpful, because it seems like a lot of you are getting jacked up for detecting in areas that are perfectly legal. HH

I'm sure. You also get to open carry. I unfortunately live in ny. Not happening.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

An example of a cop's "scram":

About 15 yrs. ago, buddy and I were hunting a park, in a city about 2 hrs. from me. It's an old town park I always like to hit, whenever passing through that part of our state. It's been hunted since the late 1970s, and perhaps even earlier. But this one time, my friend and I got the boot from a lady cop. All she would say is: "it's not allowed, blah blah". Well as it turned out, we were just getting ready to call it a day anyhow. So we gave lip service, and left.

A few months later, I began to correspond with someone on an md'ing forum, who was from that particular city. He'd seen my posts, and we realized we were only 2 hrs. from each other. So we emailed back and forth about various research , spots, etc... And then I told him about my "scram" from his downtown park, a few months prior. This came as a surprise to him, since he too had detected this park numerous times, w/o issue. As had his mental (the local dealer in his town), who likewise had md'd there for years.

Thus upon hearing of my "scram", he decided he was going to "get to the bottom of it". Apparently his wife is "well connected" in city hall (has an uncle or something on city council). And my new friend was going to "get this clarified" and "seek to appeal it" and "make sure it's ok", and so forth. But I advised against it. I told him that it may only end up getting a "no", where no such law really truly says such a thing. Eg.: that they might allude to altering, disturbing, and removing type verbage. Instead I suggested that it might only be a fluke. Like perhaps some busy-body in the park had called the cops, and so the cop merely had to justify the call-out, to "please miss-lookie-lou".

My friend took my advice and did nothing. But YOU CAN BET that the next times he went detecting there, he had one leery eye looking around, at any potential problems. Nothing ever became of it. Eventually he forgot the issue, and stopped worrying/wondering. So too did I, when passing through the town again 6 months later, detect there again. And this time was always keeping an eye out for any trouble. No one ever said so much as "boo" again (even when cop cars drove past on their regular rounds, they never stopped, slowed down, or cared). Eventually I too forgot about it, and just detect as normal.

Oh sure we use "due discretion" and "common sense" to not go at high traffic times. And not be in the middle of deep retrievals when busy-bodies are watching/wondering.

This just goes to show that you can't always take every "scram" as necessarily constituting a new law or rule that must be clarified, appealed, or that it now "requires permission", etc.... Because if you start down that route, you may just end up getting it TRULY off-limits, via your "pressing question" that elicits "safe answers" from bored pencil pushers.

 

[Randyg12]

In my opinion (and you know what they say about opinions ), it's a huge mistake to start asking people that work for the city or top city officials if their are any laws on the books that prevent metal detecting in your park. I really think that park employees that work the parks really don't care if your detecting as long as your not making a mess. The problem asking them is that they really don't know and they don't want to be the one that told you it was ok so they say no. Same goes for city officials. They don't like to deal with complaints so they just say no. Hope I'm making sense here
From time to time I've had my share of problems with park people. When that happens I just try to be polite and move on and try again in a few weeks, with no problems. One of my favorite parks to detect in Los Angeles is Griffith Park. Myself and others been pounding that park for years. Some years back I got booted out of there by a park employee that happened to be a female. She told me no one was allowed to dig holes. I asked her show me what holes she was talking about and she couldn't find one. I swear there was gopher holes all over the place and I mentioned to her that the gophers were doing more damage than I was. She was nice and asked me to please stop because someone had called her boss and complained and he called her to take care of it. I moved on to another park. That year I saw her a few times and she just waved at me. The point is it's better not to plant your feet in an refuse to move or start asking questions because it could open a can of worms.

The one thing you don't want to happen is to have some city official start poking around about detecting laws because just maybe your request back fires when the city official opens some book gathering dust and does find a law that prevents you from detecting and now your park is off limits, or worse yet your request starts people asking questions about detecting and they put a law in the books. If you would have said nothing you could have tried again later and probably not have a problem.
Ive learned to detect parks in the early morning during the week days with no problems. I usually move on from where I'm detecting if too many people start showing up or something in my gut tells me it's time to leave and it's worked well for me.

Sorry I got long winded

 

[cruiserkev]

Ive learned to detect parks in the early morning during the week days with no problems. I usually move on from where I'm detecting if too many people start showing up or something in my gut tells me it's time to leave and it's worked well for me.:

This is great advice, I have been doing early morning hunts for years with no problems. Up with the sun and back home by lunchtime. Nobody seems to complain that early, probably still sleeping it off from drinking the night before!

 

[Msbeepbeep]

This is great advice, I have been doing early morning hunts for years with no problems. Up with the sun and back home by lunchtime. Nobody seems to complain that early, probably still sleeping it off from drinking the night before!

EXACTLY! No harm no foul...no people! Early Sunday morning is my detecting time, the busy bodies and drug dealers with guns are both home sleeping!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... it's a huge mistake to start asking people that work for the city or top city officials if their are any laws on the books that prevent metal detecting in your park. I really think that park employees that work the parks really don't care if your detecting as long as your not making a mess. The problem asking them is that they really don't know and they don't want to be the one that told you it was ok so they say no. Same goes for city officials. ....

Randy, loved your post ! Please be "long-winded" in the future too