Posting this here aswell as in general.....looking for vast input.

[SomeGuy]

The price of liberty is eternal vigilance.

If you think it's worth the time, effort, and money, then you should see an attorney before any more encounters. Know the law, have copies of pertanent statutes and your attorney's card with you on all future outings. Be polite, but firm, and be prepared to post bail and sue the city for harassment.

 

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[Skrimpy]

I agree with SC .Have your say but stay calm......And be sure and thank anyone that helps out or gives you information.....
oh and by the way telling someone you are the police when your not..is a crime!!!! regardless of whom she thinks she is.

EXACTLY! It is a FELONY in any state to impersonate a police officer and that is EXACTLY what she did. I would go to the mayor first and if he/she says it's a go, get it in writing and then when she gets in your face and says she is the cops...wait until she actually calls them, then produce the letter...then inform the police officers that she just told you she was the police and watch them cart her off in cuffs. Don't let her know about the letter until the cops get there. She won't be the park administrator for much longer. There is a word we use in New York for a woman like that. It also doubles as the technical term for a non-male dog in show dog circles. Make sure you explain to the mayor that you fill your holes back in, throw trash away, and leave the park in as good, if not better condition than when you got there.

 

[halfdime]

As I understand things, police do not make laws, they enforce them. Theoretically, they can't enforce something of which they are not aware. When questioned about it, a policeman should be able to cite some sort of reference supporting his decision to stop someone from metal detecting on public property. "Because Mrs. Snotnose complained," doesn't qualify as that reference, in my book. This is not a new hobby, and the issue of metal detecting has to have come up before just about everywhere, or am I naive? I avoid this kind of trouble by hunting sites that tend to be private and more lucrative anyway.

 

[bill gent]

throught the day police officers make one call after another after awhile unnecessary calls do mount up to a pile of fustration. often the outcome dosent make sense but they do have to clear the call the best way possible which is usually in favor of the irate. People who are co-operative are always asked to give in because they are rational.

As explained before it is a crime to even sudguest that you are a police officer all police personal must carry their shield and ID at all times . General as a rule i do not let people get with in a arms length of my person and ask them to back off. face to face close contact is a violation of civil law an is considered a threat to ur pperson .

as far as Mding in parks or strange places i usuall as a rule seek out the local police officers on patrol in that area and let them know I will be at a certian spot and the reason why this avoids any problems later

 

[diggummup]

The price of liberty is eternal vigilance.

If you think it's worth the time, effort, and money, then you should see an attorney before any more encounters. Know the law, have copies of pertanent statutes and your attorney's card with you on all future outings. Be polite, but firm, and be prepared to post bail and sue the city for harassment.

Good advice.

As I understand things, police do not make laws, they enforce them. Theoretically, they can't enforce something of which they are not aware. When questioned about it, a policeman should be able to cite some sort of reference supporting his decision to stop someone from metal detecting on public property. "Because Mrs. Snotnose complained," doesn't qualify as that reference, in my book. This is not a new hobby, and the issue of metal detecting has to have come up before just about everywhere, or am I naive? I avoid this kind of trouble by hunting sites that tend to be private and more lucrative anyway.

Agreed.I would be down at city hall complaining and argueing to see the ordinance/s against it in writing.If there aren't any,then you know how to proceed from there.They can't "make-up" laws as they see fit because Mrs.bloodhound sees fit to stick her nose where it doesn't belong.It's up to you to know beforehand the exact laws in your area regarding metal detecting in specific public areas.If you find it's legal and your willing to go the distance with the cops,you can sue them,if they proceed to arrest you unjustly in the future.Unfortunately,this nation has become "sue happy",if you can't beat 'em,then join 'em in this particular case.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Hey y'all, look back at the original info given: all the police and park's lady iritations were NOT the issue of detecting at all. Look closely and see that things like "damage to the ground", "digging", "vandalism", blah blah blah. I bet as long as no one saw you digging, and only saw you swinging, you'd never have any problems. As soon as someone sees you in the middle of a retreival/hole/plug, they probably think "oh no! that guy's gonna leave that hole open!" (you'd think they know we're going to pat it back flat, but remember, they don't know this hobby).

It's gotten to where, when I've gotten a deep coin signal, where I anticipate needing to open a plug (too deep to probe) that I actually subconsciously make a 360* look around and won't start it, unless no one's around. And even then, while I'm working at it, I've got one eye on the horizon, just in case some busy-body is approaching. If it appears to be someone coming my way, I'm quick to finish it up, or, in some cases, just cover it up, but mark it my mind to come back later.

Better yet, since I know that the only beef is about retreiving, it's even gotten to where I do most of my md'ing after 5pm, or even later in the dark, at night. "Out of site is out of mind". Not that I think I'm doing anything wrong, but I just don't want to hear any cr*p.

I suppose there might be some parks, in some cities, where maybe someone in the past has gone around leaving craters, and therefore everyone else, no matter how good their holes are, will get the riot act. So in those places, you may truly have to lay low for awhile, or go at more discreet times. Recently, I got booted from a park in my town. When I asked the gardener why, he said "new rules, d/t someone was leaving holes". When I showed him that I was leaving no trace, he sympathized with me and said "well... I get off at 5pm, and what I don't see won't bother me"

 

[Seajay]

Teverly has a good point about contacting your city officials. Asking for assistance from your city council rep is a good place to start; especially if you are registered voter in their ward. Just politely explain what the deal is and see what happens. Here in Jacksonville, like other towns, it is often who you know in local politics that helps you get things done. Nothing wrong with that. If it works, fine. If not, well at least you tried.

 

[BobPA]

Dealing with government is something like, "Who's on first?" Ask 10 officials a question and get 10 different answers.
Bob

 

[MD Dog]

As president of my town MDing club, which consists mainly of myself, my wife and our 15yo daughter. I/we just recently petitioned our town and village boards for an ordinance requiring a permit for all activities involved with this sport, it includes such things as plug size and fines for failure to fill dug holes by 1/2 inch or more. We then applied for the first yearly permit to MD on all town and village properties which don't require prior notice as is specified within our ordinance petition. We included a short video demonstrating our techniques as well as a time lapse sequence which showed the plugs regeneration over the course of a week. You may ask why in the world would we want to incur a permit requirement where none existed. Well in order to get the permission via permit. Any time we are confronted by police we simply show our permits and documentation that we are indeed on town or village property. We also got allot of good will with both the town and village boards by simply playing to their egos by asking ahead of time in the same manner that all ethical MDers would do on private property.

 

[spez401]

Your best advice is to go to the parks department of your town/city, and seek permission from them. Be sure that you get the relevant ordinances/statutes before you go, so that you're knowledgeable on the subject. Ask permission from the supervisor, and bring along your detector and be prepared to demonstrate your machine and technique. Also be sure to point out the amount of trash that you remove. (I would also go the week before and bury a few coins near the building about an inch or 2 down... no reason you can't stack the deck in your favor). If you still don't get permission, or if there is a statute/ordinance prohibiting the conduct, then lobby with the city/town council to get it changed.

Even if you have the statutes in hand, be prepared for the cops to hassle you if you don't have permission in writing. Do not take a hard line with them... unfortunately, they are right, and can tell you to leave. Further, if there is a statute that prevents your conduct, you can face substantial fines and legal fees if you are charged. "Mouthing off" to the cop, telling him how you pay his salary, and how you as a citizen own all the public land because you pay taxes, etc... is only going to give you more problems. If you can't get permission, then you need to decide how far you want to push the issue (LEGALLY)

Also remember that if you think you can sue the police department because you were arrested, think again. Most govt. officials have a qualified immunity and a good faith exemption to prosecution. If the cop reasonably thinks that he was acting correctly (any shmuck with a computer can type up something that looks official), then he is exempt from suit, unless he clearly and blatantly violate your civil rights.

It isn't worth it. Back in the beginning of April, I defended a gentleman who used a metal detector on a prohibited site (underwater). There was a statute that prevented it. Here was the total tab after all his gear was confiscated:
$2500 in Scuba Gear
$1000 for and Excalibur 1000 (bought about 2 months ago)
$3500 for 14' zodiac and motor
$1000 in fines
$750 legal fees (to me )
$8,500 Total bill

Luckily I got the fines reduced, and his gear returned, but he still incurred substantial costs.

If you get the statutes, and can't figure them out, feel free to drop me an email, and I'll be happy to look at them. Good luck

steve
<<<<attorney

 

[Ant]

In the city I live in the center of the street is used as a reference point when surveying or measuring a lot or parcel of land. The city has an easement on the parking strip and sidewalk. The property owner is responsible for maintaining the parking strip and sidewalk, but an easement is always in effect.

I would never hunt a parking strip in front of a private residence without permission. I will hunt in front of apartments and commercial building or the likes.

 

[TreasureTales]

Let me start off by saying I feel for you and your brother - you have not been treated well by public servants and that is not right IMO. But sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.


1) Always call the local police department and inquire about local ordinances prohibiting or limiting metal detecting BEFORE detecting on city property. Get the name and/or badge number of the officer providing the information and write it down, along with the date and time you called.

2) When confronted by "authority figures" always be polite and don't admit to any wrongdoing - it could be used against you in a court of law. Don't plead ignorance of the law, don't make excuses for yourself, just leave.

3) Cameras intimate people because photographs and videos can be used against them in a court of law. If you have your camera handy, take photos of the person(s) hassling you.

4) Avoid those grassy strips at the curb because somebody somewhere will be watching you and is either going to call the police about your activities or going to come outside and ask you to leave. There are so many other places to detect, don't risk it unless you have permission from the homeowner who maintains the strip.

5) This country is becoming a police state, not due to the police but due to bureaucrats. I can't go into politics here, but suffice to say you shouldn't have to put up with any crap from some bureaucrat or politician or any other civil servant. If that woman was as pushy as you say, I'd have taken out my camera, taken her photo repeatedly and asked her to say a few words into the microphone. She may be protecting the public's property but she could have found a more appropriate way to speak with you about it.

6) As already mentioned, if you have the time, money, fortitude, and support of family - pursue the issue of detecting on public property. They allow kids to dig holes all over parks. They allow dogs to dig holes in parks. They allow impromptu soccer games, football games, etc. (all can do damage to the grounds) yet they won't allow detecting. That seems absolutely descriminatory to me. I would fight this thing if I had the support and the patience, but don't kill yourself off fighting something that may ultimately not be worth it - even if you win.

7) Find some other place to detect, someplace more private and therefore relaxing and hassle-free. Check with schools, county property, businesses, and other properties BEFORE digging and you will undoubtedly find some great places to detect without some shrew hassling you. I don't fault the cops too much, but they do need to be familiar with the laws if they are going to selectively enforce them.

Please keep us updated regarding your decisions and the outcome of all this should you pursue it through legal or civil avenues.

 

[DCMatt]

You asked for input. Here's mine.

I live in Virginia. In my state it is a class one misdemeanor to "hunt" on any public property. The law is written (purposely) in very broad terms. Removal of any "artifact" is also illegal. An artifact is defined as anything that shows the presence of humans at that place.

So, in Virginia, I ask for permission from land owners and stay out of the parks. Right now I have more permission than I have time to hunt.

My advice - Be genuine, honest, and sincere, and people will respond favorably towards you (including the police).

If you are compelled to raise a stink, just remember - when dealing with the government, you usually get what you give.

DCMatt - 20 years as a federal government employee

 

[El Cooter]

Stick to private property!!!!!!!!!! I put the word out with friends and customers and it has given me great old homes and ranch sites.Dealing with the public isnt easy and people dont understand us or what we are doing. Really they think we are vermin or uneducated loosers looking to steal something. Cooter

 

[ryaan21]

Well some updates are in.

The city manager was contacted and he told us to detect all we want in the park. He also said that the woman who was giving is grief wasnt even supposed to say anything.

The boulevard areas he told us are also detectable but urged us to seek permission before hunting them as the city makes the home owners upkeep these areas. Which is fine,we never hunted the good landscaped ones anyways. Just always did the crappy looking ones that you could tell no one ever mowed or weeded. Either way I will seek permission when we search these cause I dont wanna mess up detecting in this small ass town.

 

[TreasureTales]

HOORAY!!! YIPPEE!!! Where is this town? I'm going there and detecting those parks now...now that detectorists have the City Manager's permission!!!! Oh, did you write down the date and time you received permission to do the parks? I'm telling you, you can't just assume everybody at city hall knows about this, you gotta take the time to jot down the date and time and name and file it somewhere so you will be able to cover your backside in case some other overly zealous wacko hassles you some day.

 

[Lafitte]

Sounds like ya stayed calm, got some real answers, and will do the permission thing anyway. Good on ya for looking out for other MD'ers.

 

[steve71]

JUST GO BACK AND DETECT IF YOU GOT GOOD LAWYER THAT IS.THEY ARREST YOU FOR THAT WHEN THERE IS NO LAW ABOUT THAT TELLING YOU YOU CANT LOOK.I THOUGHT THAT WAS FALSE ARREST?THEY SHOULD BE DOING MUCH MORE IMPORNTANT THINGS THAN HARASSING A TAX PAYER.

 

[spez401]

steve71

scroll up and read what i posted on may 14. Cops have a good faith exemption to being sued. You can't sue them for harrassment unless it is repeated, habitual conduct (by the same officer). As long as they reasonably believe that they are doing their job, you can't sue them. Hiring a lawyer to do so is literally throwing good money after bad.

Like I said... you'd have to find a whole bunch of really, really nice coins to justify my fee for defending a harrasment case against an officer who appears to be doing his job (or suing the police department)

and ryaan... congrats on the info... make sure you have the name of the person (city official) who gave you permission, and even better, see if he'll commit in writing for the future.
steve

 

[DCMatt]

Congrats! Now get busy!

DCMatt