The Anonymous Female Archaeologist 'Bites her Tongue

John Winter

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“… detectorists can be the stuff of nightmares … those acting as treasure hunters, operating without a licence, digging under the cover of night, are not likely to be keeping detailed records … when someone walks onto site uninvited with a bag of artefacts your heart just sinks and you have to bite your tongue.“

The Female Archaeologist ?Bites her Tongue? | johnwinter.net
 

jeff of pa

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Archaeologists like her. And I use the term "Archaeologist" loosely
considering she probably is not a trained one.
Make me Think I would turn her down if asked to help her out on a dig.
I'd want to tell her to get on her knees and use her little paint brush
 

Nitric

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Archaeologists like her. And I use the term "Archaeologist" loosely
considering she probably is not a trained one.
Make me Think I would turn her down if asked to help her out on a dig.
I'd want to tell her to get on her knees and use her little paint brush

:laughing7: not where I thought that was headed!
 

Tom_in_CA

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John Winters, here's the lady archie's wonderful quote from your link:

[h=4]… metal detectorists can be the stuff of nightmares when on a dig. Those acting as treasure hunters, operating without a licence, digging under the cover of night, are not likely to be keeping detailed records. Once an object is removed from a site, it loses its context and its informative value is decreased to almost nil, depending on the artefact. When someone walks onto site uninvited with a bag of artefacts your heart just sinks and you have to bite your tongue.[/h]Couple of things to say about this:

a) Md'rs likewise shouldn't get rattled by quotes like that. Or think it's their obligation to convert such types to "love you and love md'ing". And worry: "oh no, the sky is falling because archies don't like us" type fears.

Here's why: It would be like asking a P.E.T.A. rep (animal rights wacko advocates): "What do you think of the sport of Rodeo?". They would shriek that it's animal cruelty, and how horrible you are, blah blah blah. But *seriously* now, WHAT DID YOU EXPECT from an animal rights wacko to say ? SO TOO do I put very little stock into what purist archies say.

B) did anyone else catch that this lady archie is working in England ? So if ANY md'rs think the "British Trove Laws" are some sort of wonderful love affair relationship with md'rs and archies, let this be the proof that THEY TOO have purist archies over there too. So as you can see, trove laws have NOT somehow opened up sites, made things blissful, etc...
 

Rawhide

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Truth is most historical sites have already been documented. Due to modern trash, most sites have to have the first foot of dirt removed just to do a dig. That historical designation is bunk. But I never break the law to dig there is just so many places I can dig a archy cant touch. It would be a good thing though if we all spent some time on a dig to learn how to id a real historical find. I enjoy archys even if they are a little down your nose types.
 

MUDSLINGER

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The attitude and thinking of the lady suggests that as a citizen I can't put a shovel in the dirt to retrieve a lost or thrown away item because it might have historical context really gets me angry. My grandfather use to walk the fields with his children picking up arrowheads and native american artifacts and I use to climb telephone poles along abandoned RR tracks to collect insulators as well as dig bottle dumps. Because today I use a tool called a metal detector to retrieve lost and discarded items does not make me a criminal, but because native American sites have become the news stories suggesting grave robbing is the goal of every treasure hunter we all get painted as the guy stealing something. Unless it has broader historical context,( ie. George Washington's house) it is ok to dig.
 

foiler

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Every 'archie' I've met was a hypocrite. All 7 were tenured professors and all have their own personal museum of 'samples' removed from dig sites they've been involved in. Some even where swapped or gifted with other archies. A common practice then. I'm talking 60' thru 80's. I know not of the new regime but given that they learned their profession from the same band of thieves I've encountered, I doubt much has changed. As you may gather by my post I have little respect for the profession as a whole. There are always exception, at least I hope there are.
 

Ditlihi

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John Winters, here's the lady archie's wonderful quote from your link:

[h=4]… metal detectorists can be the stuff of nightmares when on a dig. Those acting as treasure hunters, operating without a licence, digging under the cover of night, are not likely to be keeping detailed records. Once an object is removed from a site, it loses its context and its informative value is decreased to almost nil, depending on the artefact. When someone walks onto site uninvited with a bag of artefacts your heart just sinks and you have to bite your tongue.[/h]Couple of things to say about this:

a) Md'rs likewise shouldn't get rattled by quotes like that. Or think it's their obligation to convert such types to "love you and love md'ing". And worry: "oh no, the sky is falling because archies don't like us" type fears.

Here's why: It would be like asking a P.E.T.A. rep (animal rights wacko advocates): "What do you think of the sport of Rodeo?". They would shriek that it's animal cruelty, and how horrible you are, blah blah blah. But *seriously* now, WHAT DID YOU EXPECT from an animal rights wacko to say ? SO TOO do I put very little stock into what purist archies say.

B) did anyone else catch that this lady archie is working in England ? So if ANY md'rs think the "British Trove Laws" are some sort of wonderful love affair relationship with md'rs and archies, let this be the proof that THEY TOO have purist archies over there too. So as you can see, trove laws have NOT somehow opened up sites, made things blissful, etc...


Excellent analogy. :icon_thumright:

I tend to look at it like this: The Archies are the bran, and the Detectorists are the raisins. Together they make a great cereal, but each is equally delicious on it's own. Both in moderation, as too much bran can leave you constipated - and too many raisins can have the opposite effect ( but are an excellent source of iron ).

You find what you look for in any case.

JMHO.
 

Msbeepbeep

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If she had bit her tongue at the very beginning of her rant, it would have greatly improved things.
To cringe or not to cringe, time marches on as does the decaying of artifacts in the ground.
Maybe shes just a little jealous that metal detectors can locate the item faster, can see thru solid ground, and leap buildings in a single bound (carry on luggage). :D
 

digger460

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"operating without a license" giphy.gif
 

Tnmountains

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Historical Archaeologists have a long and tumultuous history with metal detectorists (aka relic hunters, looters, etc)....... This how they want to perceive us now they are teaching how to work with us.

Online Seminars

Society for American Archeologist

Working With Metal Detectorists: Citizen Science at historic Montpelier and

Engaging a New Constituency


Date/TimeNovember 10, 2016 3:00-4:00 p.m. EST
DescriptionHistorical Archaeologists have a long and tumultuous history with metal detectorists (aka relic hunters, looters, etc). This seminar will discuss how to practically engage with this group through hands-on surveys and the benefits to bringing this group to our way of seeing sites. Using public programs run at James Madison’s Montpelier as an example, the methods of incorporating metal detectorists into surveys will be presented. Key to these programs is using and presenting metal detectors as a remote sensing device—a concept with not only practical benefits for finding sites, but is an extremely powerful tool to present the value of site preservation to a group that traditionally views sites solely from an artifact-centered approach.
This course will be of interest to archaeologists who run field programs and have a need to find and define historic sites (phase I and II surveys). This includes contract firms, university researchers, historic property managers, cultural resource managers for large land holdings (state and federal).


I will say that not all Archeologist feel that way and we have members here that are Archaeologist and they also use this site for reference when googling items. Like any profession there will always be a few just as in metal detecting you have the ones who hunt outside the lines.
I personally would like to see a better relationship and information shared.
 

Last edited:

FreeBirdTim

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If archaeologists haven't dug at any of the remaining "historical" colonial era sites by now, they never will. They've had at least 150 years to get off their butts and dig these sites. Time's up, boys. Finders keepers, losers weepers!
 

Rawhide

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Im with Tnmountians on this one. I have Archy friends, online of course and one local guy. They have always been friendly to me and answered any questions I have had. I believe in doing things right, and Im just not going to fight. There has been some major land grabs lately and Im not sure it is about history or preservation. But more about securing water and mineral rights for the highest bidder.
 

Tnmountains

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Where Archeologist loose out in the USA is that most land is owned by the people. We get permission when they do not. My house is on a Civil War battlefield so is my neighbor and everyone around me. I am friends with all of them so this battle was mine to explore. Never an Archeologist inquired about any of it.
 

Tom_in_CA

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Historical Archaeologists have a long and tumultuous history with metal detectorists (aka relic hunters, looters, etc)....... This how they want to perceive us now they are teaching how to work with us.

Online Seminars

Society for American Archeologist

Working With Metal Detectorists: Citizen Science at historic Montpelier and

Engaging a New Constituency


Date/TimeNovember 10, 2016 3:00-4:00 p.m. EST
DescriptionHistorical Archaeologists have a long and tumultuous history with metal detectorists (aka relic hunters, looters, etc). This seminar will discuss how to practically engage with this group through hands-on surveys and the benefits to bringing this group to our way of seeing sites. Using public programs run at James Madison’s Montpelier as an example, the methods of incorporating metal detectorists into surveys will be presented. Key to these programs is using and presenting metal detectors as a remote sensing device—a concept with not only practical benefits for finding sites, but is an extremely powerful tool to present the value of site preservation to a group that traditionally views sites solely from an artifact-centered approach.
This course will be of interest to archaeologists who run field programs and have a need to find and define historic sites (phase I and II surveys). This includes contract firms, university researchers, historic property managers, cultural resource managers for large land holdings (state and federal).


I will say that not all Archeologist feel that way and we have members here that are Archaeologist and they also use this site for reference when googling items. Like any profession there will always be a few just as in metal detecting you have the ones who hunt outside the lines.
I personally would like to see a better relationship and information shared.

TN mountains , I found this text from those archies, to be quite condescending & patronizing. As if .... we are SO fortunate to "be allowed" to work with them. And so privileged to be allowed to learn their "correct" ways, etc....

If the statements were said in converse order (that we'd "allow" them to tag along with us, and see how md'rs work), they would BRISTLE at the concept !

And those type digs that link refers to would NOT be what most md'rs are thinking it is. It is not being able to go out and detect on historic sacred sites (woohoo!). It would be quite boring to most of us. If it's anything like the archie digs I've been on, you: flag each signal with a little wire flag, and they come back later with tweezers and paintbrush to dig it up :sleepy2:
 

Nitric

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TN mountains , I found this text from those archies, to be quite condescending & patronizing. As if .... we are SO fortunate to "be allowed" to work with them. And so privileged to be allowed to learn their "correct" ways, etc....

If the statements were said in converse order (that we'd "allow" them to tag along with us, and see how md'rs work), they would BRISTLE at the concept !

And those type digs that link refers to would NOT be what most md'rs are thinking it is. It is not being able to go out and detect on historic sacred sites (woohoo!). It would be quite boring to most of us. If it's anything like the archie digs I've been on, you: flag each signal with a little wire flag, and they come back later with tweezers and paintbrush to dig it up :sleepy2:

I also saw a small site that was.....Abandoned? It's been yellow taped for years,(well tape is crumbling now) half dug, little flags, like they were working on it..Then just never came back from lunch one day! :laughing7: If I ever get back over there I'm going to take pics...It even has some sign saying stay out...archy dig site by.....I don't remember exact wording.
 

Msbeepbeep

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Your right, it probably is just the few, but unfortunately they are the few in charge with a condescending and "holier than thou" attitude.
 

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