CAN SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS IN A MORE SIMPLER FORM FOR US PLEASE

[earl&patricia]

I was pretty clear on what constitutes public access for a navigable water in Texas but had a chance to reaffirm my thoughts this weekend.

The Warden simplified it..

1st Question: What is considered a navigable water way (Public access)?

Anything wet or dry that has a stream bed of 30ft or more, even if its only wet seasonally or over a the course of years.

So that affirmed what is public land and accessible..

2nd Question: 50% Gradient regulation and how much of the bank is public?

The public portion is the actual stream bed wet or dry, Were to establish the gradient line, ? The current water line to the point on the bank where vegetation is growing, even if its a grass is the gradient line defined by state law, then split it at the halfway point between the current water line an the vegetation line, there you have it the public portion may very from inches to feet along the water line, but he did say without a doubt that the high water bank (historical flood zone) on a river or stream bed is not public land.

3rd Question: How is the distinguished on a dry stream bed in excess of 30ft?

He laughed a bit and said very carefully and with respect to the adjacent landowners but a safe bet would be to stay within the confines of the stream bed its self.


In all is was a great interchange of thought....

 

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[Icewing]

Good post, that's the problem with poorly writen laws, they leave too much to interpret, so it comes down to case law.

I've always wondered about the right of way along the sides of the state highway where it cuts across a military park or otherwise. Is it cool if I'm within 50 feet of the centerline?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

earl and patricia, been following your posts since you joined. You might be "over-thinking" all this. I mean, seriously now, ... is anyone out there (Navy commandos armed with tape measures) measuring "30 ft" and "whether or not you stepped over it ? And are there engineer poised to measure whether you've exceeded "50% gradient" from the creek bed, blah blah blah ?

If you can hike there, and walk your dog, and whistle dixie, then consider md'ing just as innocuous . Just avoid obvious historic sensitive monument, people's front yards, and fences/signs. Beyond that: I think you're over-thinking things.

 

[Deft Tones]

earl and patricia, been following your posts since you joined. You might be "over-thinking" all this. I mean, seriously now, ... is anyone out there (Navy commandos armed with tape measures) measuring "30 ft" and "whether or not you stepped over it ? And are there engineer poised to measure whether you've exceeded "50% gradient" from the creek bed, blah blah blah ?

If you can hike there, and walk your dog, and whistle dixie, then consider md'ing just as innocuous . Just avoid obvious historic sensitive monument, people's front yards, and fences/signs. Beyond that: I think you're over-thinking things.

Tom.

In Texas trespassing will get oneself shot and mostly without defense under law...if one were to survive it.

TX is not like most of America in some ways...trespass being one. They don't play down there!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

If "getting shot" for walking a creekbed were an issue, the issues of "measure 30 ft." to determine when someone stepped over (so you can shoot them) seems to be the least of concerns

 

[Deft Tones]

If "getting shot" for walking a creekbed were an issue, the issues of "measure 30 ft." to determine when someone stepped over (so you can shoot them) seems to be the least of concerns

I would imagine TX has already defined navagable waterways seeing how they've established a minimum bed width. Seems to me if you start out in a navagable river and follow it long enough, eventually you'll pass the upstream minimum limit. At that point and beyond one could easily enter into tresspassing status. If you get shot and killed in a streambed at 29ft., 40ft., or close enough to a tributary like a feeder creek, who's going to know if your corpse gets brought upstream or into a feeder creek 150 yards?

Wrong or right, it's tough to dispute the facts when you're dead. Better to play it safe in a state like TX, IMO.

I fished there. Buddy lives in Celina and I've fished two rivers with him. Rule #1 only get out of the boat on sandbars, etc.

 

[earl&patricia]

The reason I ask is because There is a a lake called lake Livingston, There is a dam and below it is a river call the San Jacinto (spelling) The Army core of engineers built the dam but a place called Browders own property on both sides of the river and on the lake by the dam. They gave us permission to hunt on it. They have people on that dam by the spillway all the time. Don't want to go down there and get into trouble. And some of you are right, the laws are strict. They don't have commercials that say "DON'T MESS WITH TEXAS" for no reason.

TOM in CA - I might know if I am over thinking it, IF I knew what it meant. I believe it's better to safe than sorry. I get on to my nephews all the time for getting into trouble because they do not follow the rules and laws. How can I tell them that if i can not do the same. We have to practice what we preach so we can preach to our younger generation. At least thats the way I see it.

One other thing, I just like to know what the laws mean. You know what they say, Ignorance is no excuse for not knowing the law

 

[trapperart]

I do the research, try to get permission as close as possible. I will not detect anywhere I don't have permission from the owner

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... Rule #1 only get out of the boat on sandbars, etc.

Gee I dunno. From the likes of what I'm reading, some farmer is "sure to consider sandbars to be 'land' ", and is "sure to shoot you for touching sandbars"

... I believe it's better to safe than sorry...... Ignorance is no excuse for not knowing the law

Sure, by all means don't "throw caution to the wind". But at a certain point, if you want to go over all the "what if's" long enough, it will get to where you won't even leave your front door in the morning.

Perhaps where you're at "people are shot for stepping off sidewalks". It's not that way in CA. This kind of reminds me of a long forum discussion on "detecting along-side RR tracks". It boiled down to a RR property, can't walk there, you'll be arrested and shot, blah blah blah. While others were scratching their heads thinking/saying "gee, when we were kids, we walked down the sides of RR tracks all the time, and I don't recall being arrested and shot".

Again, not saying to "throw caution to the wind". Perhaps I'm envisioning something "innocuous" that in your particular river-bottom is NOT innocuous (eg.: fishermen and the gal walking her dog "get shot" and so forth).

 

[Deft Tones]

Gee I dunno. From the likes of what I'm reading, some farmer is "sure to consider sandbars to be 'land' ", and is "sure to shoot you for touching sandbars"

I've fished in a lot of places and Texas is the only place we included an AR10 semi-automatic rifle among our gear in the boat. I was like, where are you taking me that we might need that? (already have pistols)

My buddy grinned, "You're in Texas, Brother!"

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... My buddy grinned, "You're in Texas, Brother!"

Ok, I'll bite: Got an example of someone getting "shot up by an AR-10" for touching a sandbar ? I'm sure it happens all the time there. So certainly you have a link to an example ?

 

[ChampFerguson/TN]

Just know the laws and don't let anyone talk you into breaking them.
Treat folks (and their property) like you want to be treated; this works exceptionally well in the South.
Jailhouse lawyering is rarely a good idea when all is said and done.

 

[earl&patricia]

Just know the laws and don't let anyone talk you into breaking them.
Treat folks (and their property) like you want to be treated; this works exceptionally well in the South.
Jailhouse lawyering is rarely a good idea when all is said and done.

If they would clean all the buried cans in my yard I would treat them with all kinds of respect, rather they asked permission or not. lol
I don't think its more of the owners that are so bad out on the rivers and creeks banks as i think they are poachers living out on the property along those rivers and creeks. Anyone who know Texas, knows the laws are very strict, but also know there is just to much land for the law to cover and so many places for poachers to hide....

 

[earl&patricia]

Im not really even concerned about being shot, not sure where that part came up, even though its pretty much true, But i just worry about going to jail or getting a fine

 

[bowser]

If "getting shot" for walking a creekbed were an issue, the issues of "measure 30 ft." to determine when someone stepped over (so you can shoot them) seems to be the least of concerns

Why not just paint your detector white, sounds good to me

 

[Honest Samuel]

# 1. total confuse me, and I get confuse very easy.

 

[Deft Tones]

Ok, I'll bite: Got an example of someone getting "shot up by an AR-10" for touching a sandbar ? I'm sure it happens all the time there. So certainly you have a link to an example ?

Well I wasn't baiting you.

First I did a quick google news search for you this time.

Turned up two shootings from the last 6 months...both fisherman.

Body of a Giddings Man Shot to Death Found in River Near Columbus | The Fayette County Record

Texas Fisherman Murdered on Border Lake; Police Say

Then, because we haven't spoken in 6 months, I called him.

He laughs at the Cali-man. Says did I forget he grew up in SoCal until his first divorce? And, "The AR10 is for Mexicans and Gators - Blacks stick to the cities."

I changed his choice of words to more be more polite for the audience. He is who he is and I'd never ask him to change. I just accept him as him and I know his life story.

So there you have it Tom.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Maybe it's just me. But if it was dry it ceases to be "navigable water".

 

[kcm]

Just know the laws and don't let anyone talk you into breaking them.
Treat folks (and their property) like you want to be treated; this works exceptionally well in the South.
Jailhouse lawyering is rarely a good idea when all is said and done.

I haven't finished reading the thread, but Tom, suffice it to say that Texas has an unusual way of thinking. Comes from the native Texans that were raised on a VERY independent and "Defend The Alamo" mindset. We do NOT take kindly to trespassers in general, and yes, some people will pop off a few rounds....just to let you know you shouldn't be there. Nowdays there are a lot of people who have moved to Texas, which have watered down a lot of the ornery mindset often found in Texans.

Another place you don't wanna be caught where you shouldn't be is Cajun country!! It's been MANY years since I've been to the Cajun swampland, but they, too, have their own ways of doing things. And on their side, they have the swamps (complete with alligators) to take care of any "bodies" of evidence! ....But yes, we Texans are very strong on independence, as well as personal rights - that includes property!! And yes, some people HAVE been shot! ...But often times, it's for other reasons, like stumbling across a drug house or something. I doubt there's anything more scary than armed Texans who are high on dope and who "think" you're coming to get them!!

 

[Deft Tones]

Maybe it's just me. But if it was dry it ceases to be "navigable water".

I think you might read post #1.

Wet or dry

In my state your logic follows so I would be inclined to side with you on that point.... but not in Texas!